Review: Surf City Garage Beyond Black Tire Pro

[Kris R]

I was at advance auto today and was in a pinch for some new tire treatment. I've been using Megs Hyper Dressing which I LOVE for exterior Trim, but I don't like it for tires and wheel wells. Even after diluting it seems to come out of the bottle like mayonnaise and is hard to spread over tire treads. It could be the Megs Bottle/sprayer though because I just picked up some APC+ with a megs bottle sprayer and its a little finicky about how it comes out. And that stuff is pure liquid. I was going to go with the old Megs Hot Shine / Black Magic / Etc (hate them all) But then I saw this stuff and remember another forum member saying good things. I was very hesitant because it was 16 DOLLARS! For that I could have tried the Optimum Tire Spray.

So I did buy this for a detail I'm doing today. In the parking lot I decided to give it a try on my 31" BF Goodrich AT Jeep Tire. Granted my tires are filthy and this is not the way to properly test a tire dressing but it came out of the bottle like a dream, thin and even. The liquid pooled in the treads and had a bluish tint to it kind of like Hyper-dressing but gave a beautifully even spray unlike every other dressing Ive used, silicone or not. I had an old terry cloth wash cloth in the back of the jeep that I used to buff the tire.

Now the review.

The "Beyond Black" part is accurate. My tire was incredibly black. After buffing it had a nice matte ZERO gloss sheen to it. The tire looked new. Even though I knew all I did was spray over the dirt. I went and touched it and I cant stress how NOT greasy the tire was. I rubbed my finger HARD trying to get some kind of residue on my finger but NOTHING was on there. It was amazing. Even water based hyper dressing has SOME sort of residue to it. I read the entire bottle trying to see what the base was and it didn't say. I'm assuming its water.

This will definitely help dirt NOT stick to the tire. When I got home the matte was a bit flatter in sheen but I'm sure the dirt and brake dust that was on the tire absorbed some of the dressing causing the flat sheen. I will come back after I'm done doing this Tacoma and Ill take a few pics.

See you guys in 5 hours.

Kris

 

[keepitclean]

I was in Advance Auto yesterday and noticed Surf City filled up a large part of their shelves. Thanks for the review.

 

[Kris R]

Ok I'm done with the truck and I had to experiment a little with the BBTP. Even though the tires were really clean the final result was still a hair above FLAT. I sprayed as directed, let dry (soak in) for about 5 minutes and then came back and buffed off the excess with a towel. Still MUCH darker than before but almost NO sheen. So I came back after doing other things like windows and such and I sprayed another coat on, only this time instead of buffing off with a towel I got one of those super soft foam applicators and went around and around the tire with it till the product evened out. By doing this I think it does 2 things; 1- picked up some of the excess with the foam and 2- helped the tire absorb a little more of the product. End result was a true MATTE finish that I was happy with. I'm used to a little more gloss on the tires, but I have Megs Hyper Dressing for that.

With water based dressing I have learned that if you have a surface such as a tire or plastic trim that has been dried out, the dressing will look good for a short time until it "drinks" it all up and goes back to looking dried out again. I did an experiment with my monthly maintenence on my wifes CRV that has black trim on the bottom. I apply a good coat every wash to the trim and it stays hydrated for a good month. Even through rain and such. One good pass a month with Hyper dressing keeps it nice and black. On vehicles that have been neglected that application doesnt last very long.

So Im thinking SSG:BBTP is the same. The first few coats will soak in and after that it should hold up better as I was able to see after a few applications to the tire. And also depending on your application method will change the sheen a bit.

So all in all a good product. A little pricey but I was able to spray the wheel wells with great results and wipe some exterior plastic trim with it and it was NOT greasy at ALL when it was dry and buffed. And it was nice and black too. This stuff has UV protection in it so Im sure that helps.

:dblthumb2:

 

[Kris R]

No Problem KeepitClean! :xyxthumbs:

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

How does it compare to opti bond if you've tried that?

 

[Kris R]

How does it compare to opti bond if you've tried that?

never tried it. i want to though!

 

[DLB]

This has been my tire dressing of choice for about a year now. Still will be on customer cars. For the price per application + how long it lasts + the look it gives, I don't think you can beat it. I do understand however that some people really like the Optimum. I just don't have a real need to try it...

I have to say though, I tried the Poorboys Trim Restorer on mine a few weeks ago, and it has lasted through a snow storm and a couple of rains and still looks great. Wish I had bought it on BOGO when it was on there.

DLB

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

This has been my tire dressing of choice for about a year now. Still will be on customer cars. For the price per application + how long it lasts + the look it gives, I don't think you can beat it. I do understand however that some people really like the Optimum. I just don't have a real need to try it...

I have to say though, I tried the Poorboys Trim Restorer on mine a few weeks ago, and it has lasted through a snow storm and a couple of rains and still looks great. Wish I had bought it on BOGO when it was on there.

DLB

Trim restorer on your tires?

 

[Lasthope05]

I was at advance auto today and was in a pinch for some new tire treatment. I've been using Megs Hyper Dressing which I LOVE for exterior Trim, but I don't like it for tires and wheel wells. Even after diluting it seems to come out of the bottle like mayonnaise and is hard to spread over tire treads......
Kris

Are you sure you are using Meguiars Hyperdressing? Megs HD(Detailer Line) is not even considered thick to begin with and when diluted its just like water. I think your confusing this product with another. AG used to carry the SCG line and dropped it a few years ago. Their products are pretty good and I used to use the beyond black till I found out about DG 253. Gives it a better like new look and actually lasts through the rain unlike SCG BB.

 

[ScottB]

use to carry the line at Autogeek and this product had a nice following. Its a blue colored dressing and looks cool till dried and cured completely. Its heavy matte bold black coloring.

 

[Shane731]

I was at advance auto today and was in a pinch for some new tire treatment.

I was in Advance Auto yesterday and noticed Surf City filled up a large part of their shelves.

Where were these Advance Auto stores at? I've never seen Surf City Garage products in any of my local Advance Auto stores, or any other automotive stores for that matter.

 

[Kris R]

Are you sure you are using Meguiars Hyperdressing? Megs HD(Detailer Line) is not even considered thick to begin with and when diluted its just like water. I think your confusing this product with another. AG used to carry the SCG line and dropped it a few years ago. Their products are pretty good and I used to use the beyond black till I found out about DG 253. Gives it a better like new look and actually lasts through the rain unlike SCG BB.

Yeah dude Im pretty sure my elementary school teachers did right by me when they taught me to read. oke:It bought it from AG and it is says "DETAILER LINE HYPER DRESSING" on the jug. And its light blue.

It definitely is not as thin as the stuff I used today. If you were to spray in in wheel wells as I have done many times it comes out of the sprayer and sits exactly as it lands, as a thick liquid. Ive tried to spray it directly to the tire but again its thick ENOUGH to sit in the outter treads and letters. I usually spray it on the applicator.

But as I said I've had issues with the Megs sprayers. I dont like them. It VERY well could be just the way its coming out of the sprayer. I'll have to switch to a better sprayer and re-mix a diluted batch from the jug and get back to you.

What is DG 253 by the way?

 

[Kris R]

OK I looked it up. Duragloss Tire and Rubber Mat Dressing.

Is this stuff silicone based?

 

[Lasthope05]

I use HD at 3:1 and its like water for me but oh wells...

Yes it is Duragloss tire and rubber mat dressing. Dont know what its made of but the description says its made of polymers. Many compare it to being same as Z-16 as DG Aquawax/Z8. All I know is, its some good stuff and is actually sheets water off the tires and is dry to the touch after application.

 

[Kris R]

I use HD at 3:1 and its like water for me but oh wells...

Yes it is Duragloss tire and rubber mat dressing. Dont know what its made of but the description says its made of polymers. Many compare it to being same as Z-16 as DG Aquawax/Z8. All I know is, its some good stuff and is actually sheets water off the tires and is dry to the touch after application.

Well thats encouraging. I think I will use a different sprayer. When you say 3:1 you mean 3 parts water to 1 part HD? or opposite?

I was reading DG Silicone Free dressing and it said "Silicones look good at first but dry out and damage rubber etc" Then their Tire and Rubber Mat Dressing says its made of Polymers. Seems like a contradiction. By polymers do they mean Silicone? And if so they just said it eventually damages...what gives?

 

[Lasthope05]

3 parts water and 1 part HD.

There are two types of silicones. Good silicones and bad silicones. The bad ones are the ones that dry out rubber and vinyl. They are no longer used in products and have been exchange with the new silicone emulsion products. Silicones just got a bad rap from the past. There are nothing wrong with them at all unless you work in a body shop environment.

 

[Kris R]

3 parts water and 1 part HD.

There are two types of silicones. Good silicones and bad silicones. The bad ones are the ones that dry out rubber and vinyl. They are no longer used in products and have been exchange with the new silicone emulsion products. Silicones just got a bad rap from the past. There are nothing wrong with them at all unless you work in a body shop environment.

Interesting. So all the silicone based dressings for auto detailing now are "good?" Where can I read about this?

 

[Shane731]

Interesting. So all the silicone based dressings for auto detailing now are "good?" Where can I read about this?

Note: words in green are my own. All others are from quotes taken from Meguiar's Online. Here's a quote from a thread on silicone on Meguiar's Online:

There's actually a lot of myth going on in the first post here, and they are quite common.

Silicone based - this is a misnomer as many products contain silicone, and they are usually water based. This includes Armor All products. There is nothing at all wrong with silicone as this is an inert ingredient that is designed to enhance or modify a characteristic of another ingredient. Generally they are used to enhance gloss, ease application or flow of a product, or make wipe off easier. The only time silicones are a problem at all is when they are used in an environment where fresh paint is being sprayed. Even a very tiny bit of silicone that lands on a prepped surface will cause fisheyes when the paint is sprayed over it. Understandably then, body shops don't want waxes, tire dressings or vinyl dressings in their facility. But products like Meguiar's M39 Heavy Duty Vinyl Cleaner and Silicone Free Dressing are indeed silicone free and therefore safe in that environment.

Otherwise, most all Meguiar's dressings, whether for tires, interior or exterior vinyl, rubber and plastic, will contain some level of silicone. We once got into a discussion on another forum about which dressing to use on the dash of the cars. Of course there were as many product recommendations as there were responses, but one individual was adamant about using a "water based" product and not a "silicone based" one since those silicone things would rot the dash. Uh-huh. He further stated that he had been using ONLY Brand-X for the last 5 years on his dash, monthly applications in fact, and his dash still looked like new. Proof positive, to him at least, that silicone was horrible and water based was the way to go. Well, we had a sneaking suspicion that the product he mentioned (a well respected and fairly expensive "boutique" type product) probably contained some silicone. So, making fair use of the Interwebs we sought out the website of the manufacturer in question and pulled up the MSDS on the product. Well, not only does it contain silicone, but it contains about twice as much as Meguiar's Natural Shine does!!! That isn't good, bad or otherwise. It just is. Naturally we posted this info back to that particular thread, but the guy never came back.

As for Armor All causing all those dash boards to crack and crumble, well, that isn't quite true either. Back in the 1970's or so, when Armor All first came to prominence, they really had zero competition in that market. The quality of vinyl and plastics used back then weren't all that great either. Over time these materials would become brittle, and repeated temperature extremes would cause something akin to material fatigue quite similar to metal fatigue. You know how you can bend a paper clip back and forth until it finally just breaks? That's metal fatigue, and the same concept applied to these older vinyls and plastics. But these materials are also somewhat absorbent due to their porous nature. So, when the fatigue and/or get dried out - basically when they've become brittle - adding virtually any liquid to them in any volume will cause them to swell. And then crack. Not the fault of the product being applied to it.

Tire browning, technically "blooming", is a function of the anti ozonant component blended into the tire during the manufacturing process. This material is designed to leech to the surface when the tire is in motion and under load. In the RV industry there are recommendations regarding tire replacement based on age, not mileage. That's because many RVs sit idle for extended periods so these anti ozonants don't have the opportunity to migrate to the surface. A tire rated for long tread life will generally contain more anti ozonants than a performance tire rated for a short tread life. Left to accumulate on the sidewall, these anti ozonants will have a brown coloration to them. Now apply a tire dressing with some cleaning ability and that brown color is brought to the surface. Heck, just the act of cleaning a high anti ozonant content tire will cause all kinds of brown gunk to wash off the sidewall!

In any event, while the majority of our dressings are water based and almost all of them contain some degree of silicone, none of our products contain the DuPont PTFE product.

Link to that thread here.

MOL member's post in another thread about good and bad types of silicone:
Silicone:
[: or polysiloxanes, are inorganic polymers consisting of a silicon-oxygen backbone (...-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-...) with side groups attached to the silicon atoms]

•Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert, water based, amino functional polymer resin that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert.The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane

•The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, and is usually formulated with a solvent, hexane and petroleum oils, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack, this type of silicone also causes ‘sling’, which means the product will land on body panels causing a black stain. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what makes tyre’s the colour they are)

•And The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.

•For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe (water-based) and useful silicone products.

And Mike Phillips' response:
In this thread posted in our Interior Care Forum, The good and the bad types of silicone, one of our forum members posted a reply including information on silicones that our R&D department concluded was filled with misinformation and inaccuracies.

Below we have included some information that counters what the forum member posted to demonstrate that you can't always believe what you read on the Internet. Often times people on the Internet merely copy and paste information found on other websites by doing a simple google search. Often times this information is out of context as well as inaccurate and unreliable.


Meguiar's Statement on silicones as it relates to the post on our forum in the above included link.
Silicones, or polysiloxanes, are inorganic synthetic polymers consisting of a silicon-oxygen backbone that can be composed into a wide variety of materials. They can vary in consistency from liquid to gel to rubber to hard plastic. The most common type is linear polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS).

PDMS are odorless, colorless, water resistant, chemical resistant, oxidation resistant, stable at high temperature, and do not conduct electricity. PDMS are considered inert and impervious to the effects of aging, weather, sunlight, moisture, heat, cold, and some chemical assaults.

Thus, PDMS are ideal for and found in many products, such as lubricants, insulation, adhesives, sealants, gaskets, car parts, medical devices, children toys, dishware, gloss enhancer and even Silly Putty

There are many misunderstandings and misstatements about silicones and their use in automotive appearance products. To help and clarify and provide a basis of scientific fact here are just a few examples:

Notes:
The text in Red was posted by a forum member.
The text in Back is from a professional chemist.


- “Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates”
Not true… They are not from “Aromatic” hydrocarbons.


- “Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) is a basically inert, water based”
Not true.... PDMS is oil soluble.


- “The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester."
Not true... It is not a wax, not an ester, it is a unique chemistry based upon inorganic materials.


- “Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane”
Not true…PDMS is non-reactive.


- “Dimethyl causes vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack”
Not true… PDMS are odorless, colorless, water resistant, chemical resistant, oxidation resistant, stable at high temperature, and do not conduct electricity. PDMS are considered inert and impervious to the effects of aging, weather, sunlight, moisture, heat, cold, and some chemical assaults.


- “This type of silicone also causes ‘sling’,"
Not true… Anything placed on tires will have a tendency to sling due to centrifugal force.


- “Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe (water-based) and useful silicone products.”
Not true… Silicones are not hydrocarbon distillates


- “Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification."
Not true… Silicone does not change the effects of sunlight and its properties.


- “As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated.”
Not true… PDMS that are used in tire products do not evaporate, nor do they change the effects of sunlight and it’s properties.

End of Meguiar's Statement



Note the goal here is not to embarrass or disparage anyone on our forum from posting information and specifically information on complex topics such as the chemistry of silicones, but to point out that it's easy to copy and paste information found on other websites or out of a book from the library, but as scientific sounding as the information may read, if the person posting the information is not a professional chemist, trained in the profession of chemistry, then anything they post should be questioned, and if questioned, the person posting it should be able to back it up with scientific facts or discontinue posting information they can't back up and don't generate themselves from their own learned knowledge on the subject.


It's important to remember that the goal of Meguiar's Online is to help people get the best results from their time, money and efforts. As such, the primary focus of our our discussions should be on the performance of the products, not the ingredients in our products and the chemistry behind them.

Meguiar's, just like every other company in the business of manufacturing car care chemicals is not going to tell everyone what's in our products and how they are made. Its ridiculous to even think that any car wax manufacture would do this.

It's okay to be interested as well as curious as to what's in a product and how it works, I can assure you I'm interested and curious in these things also. But at the end of the day, the big picture is the big picture, and that's choosing and using the right products for the job and the results you achieve.

That's what this forum is here for, that's our goal, helping you to choose and use the correct product in the right way and achieve the results you're looking for.

Link to that thread here. Hope this helps! :xyxthumbs:

 

[Lasthope05]

Silicones [more accurately called polymerized siloxanes or polysiloxanes] are primarily used to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply. The automotive industry uses silicones as component parts (see polymerisation) in its plastic, vinyl, rubber, paints, and fibreglass as well as in polishes and waxes.

Silicone (Siloxane) oils provide an excellent lubricant that when used as a carrier system in polishes and waxes that makes them easier to apply and remove When used in paints and other coatings it ensures an even flow through a spray nozzle ensuring an even product distribution.

There are two types of silicone; that a product contains hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates does not necessarily make that product harmful but it does depend upon which petroleum distillate is used and whither it has been further distilled (purified)

a)Water - based silicone dressings - usually a milky-white liquid, (Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) that doesn’t contain petroleum distillate; silicone oils, waxes, or solvents that can harm rubber and/or vinyl over time. Water-based dressings use a combination of natural oils and polymers to offer a non-greasy, satin finish. Some of these products also contain ultra violet radiation (UVR) blocking agents to help keep tires from cracking, fading and hardening. Most, if not all water-based dressings are environmentally friendly / biodegradable, whereas solvent-based silicone is not.

b) Solvent-based silicone dressings - usually a clear greasy liquid, (Dimethal (DMS) that contain petroleum solvents as a cleaning agent, they remove the elasticity from vinyl, rubber and paint; causing them to evaporate out of the substrate, leaving behind a dry inflexible surface. Most high gloss products are based upon DMS silicone oil, the difference between water and solvent based is in the carrier system used. Solvent based products use a hydrocarbon silicone to suspend the product. When you apply it, the solvent evaporates leaving the dressing's active ingredients (Silicone oil) behind; solvent-based silicone is not

I thought the bad siliones were no longer used but I guess they still are. TOGWT is a well respected member and a chemical engineer so he knows his stuff. Just go onto Detailingbliss and read up on some of his posts and threads.

______


Good one Shane! :xyxthumbs: I forgot about that post on MOL.

 

[Bunky]

For most people, the quality of the plastics used in the car will determine whether it cracks or not. Protectants can offer some improvement but if the plastics have inherent poor UV properties (change color, get brittle), no protectant is really going to stop it. It just may slow it down.