Rinseless wash process

frankprozzoly said:
The reason I use a little more product than suggested is to just be safe. A few ounces in 3 4 gallons won't hurt anyone
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I'm just pointing out that per Dr. G (as relayed through Chris Thomas), using more than directed is not necessary and is just a waste of product. If the car is dirty I like to use a rinse bucket and put about 25% of the recommended amount in the rinse water, just so I don't dilute the main bucket too much when I go back there after I rinse.

But as I've said, I've done this every which way, the BillD method (use the media once and "discard"), single bucket--no grit guard, single bucket with grit guard (uses more product), two bucket, etc.

And silverfox makes a good point about using the rinseless+wax products which theoretically have more lubricity.
 
Question for those pro detailers:

When you wash a new customers car that is already swirled/marred, do you go with the quickest, least safest method to speed up the job?

Would Rinseless still be viable, especially if you are going to do a paint correction?
 
frankprozzoly said:
I tried searching the biil d method. Where can I find it
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You'll have to ask BillD. BillD as far as I'm concerned pioneered the technique of using wash media until it was soiled, then changing to fresh wash media (no rinse bucket). This was about 10 years ago and was wool mitts with a foam gun. However, I contend the principle (having a lot of wash media and using it "once" rather than returning it to a solution or rinse bucket and reusing it) is the same, even though this process has recently been re-"invented" as a rinseless process and popularized.

At the time (10 years ago) we all thought Bill was crazy and never paid it much mind, but now with YouTube, the new "inventor" of this process has parlayed this into fame and fortune.
 
Grifffx4 said:
Question for those pro detailers:

When you wash a new customers car that is already swirled/marred, do you go with the quickest, least safest method to speed up the job?

Would Rinseless still be viable, especially if you are going to do a paint correction?
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I think the goal of a detailer of a less than perfect paint (99% of real world situations) is to just not add to the damage already done -- get it clean, protect if part of the deal.

When done properly (sometimes a pre-rinse may be warranted), a rinseless wash method done properly will work fine without added damage. You need to assess each job based upon the situation and decide the approach.

There is a lot marketing around techniques (taking an already known technique (maybe new to the "innovator", make video, call it a method, then get credit for making it even more well known).

You cannot always correct the world (paint), but should not not make it worse. This is what a production detailer should focus on along with customer satisfaction,
 
So, is there any reason to do a traditional wash with a hose and water besides a vehicle with mud/dirt or other heavy soiling?
 
Grifffx4 said:
So, is there any reason to do a traditional wash with a hose and water besides a vehicle with mud/dirt or other heavy soiling?
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I still feel pressure rinsing a car down first with water will always be safer. Regardless if its followed by a 2BM or a rinseless wash. Since most people feel this process is not inline with a rinseless wash, if you eliminate the pressure rinsing, and apply that step to a 2BM exclusively - the 2BM will always be safer for paint.

Anytime you remove dirt without touching the paint before touching the paint - you have less chance of marring the finish. Since a traditional rinseless wash skips this step entirely (you just wipe dirty paint) - I feel it inherently can cause more marring just via the process.

While rinseless washes do a good job - an abrasive dirt particle that is not removed prior to touching the surface is a particle that is drug across the surface and can cause micro-scratches in the removal process during a rinseless wash. Several of these micro-scratches constitute a swirl. It's common sense that any "soap" can only remove particles so large without scratching.

I don't believe rinseless washes have some super technology that is able to completely compensate for this to any significant degree for various grits and sizes of dirt. They may a little - but the cutoff it not clear. Nor is there a universals cutoff to various degrees of soiling and it's abrasiveness that may be on any part of you paint when you do a rinseless wash.

The point I'm trying to make can clearly be seen with a dirty wheel. Most detailers that know their stuff will hose down / pressure wash a dirty wheel before agitating it with wheel cleaner and tools. The reason is is that a large portion of the dirt on the wheel is quickly removed by just pressure washing the wheel.

The difference is, most factory wheel surfaces' paint are not as scratch sensitive as the paint on the body panels. Just spraying cleaner on a dry wheel and wiping it off is not an effective way to clean a moderately dirty wheel. Rinseless washes may work here - but generally not well if the wheel is pretty dirty.

So, my advice is to always hose or pressure rinse the car down first - regardless of what type of wash you do. This will remove a good chunk of the dirt touchlessly - before it has the opportunity to be drug across your paint.
 
Nice Post Swanicyouth

I agree.

The more you can to do to loosen, encapsulate or rinse contamination from the paint before touching it...the lower the chances of affecting the condition of the paint surface.
 
I agree but drying the car is a pain. Especially a black car. Instead of spending $300 on a master blaster which in my opinion doesn't work that great, takes to long, I should've bought a cr spotless system. Then I wouldn't have to worry about water spots
 
But I guess what I'm really trying to get at is if you doing a very swirled car for a customer, you wouldn't put too much into stopping swirls if there are so many swirls already would you? I mean I understand not wanting to cause more damage but wouldn't this be like putting lipstick on a pig as the saying goes? So if time=money, would you not be losing profit being extra careful on a swirled car?

And, especially when the job requires a paint correction later? Wouldn't you just want to make sure the paint is 100% clean but not worry so much about how you do it. Of course I realize if the vehicle is really dirty you don't want to make the correction any tougher but I guess I'm speaking about just a typical dirty vehicle.

I'm learning here, so don't think I'm questioning your methods, just trying to wrap my head around best methods for production detailing.
 
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