Rupes coarse wool pad Breakage -reasons

Manilruben

Manilruben

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My third project was VW polo white with 30k done on the odo with lot of swirl and oxidation.

As per books of detailing says , pepped the car decided to go for two step and finally seal it with Sonax polymer Netshield .

First step :

Rupes Duetto polisher
Menzerna 400
Rupes Blue coarse wool Pad

I primed the pads then went to work with it after completion of first panel I noticed that the swirls were only partially removed after 2 passes so went ahead cleaned the pad. Then did the third pass but there was haze and marring.

As this was wool pad i was convinced on the haze and went ahead with the second panel. Half way down the pad snapped and there was lot of heat when I touched the pad. My speed of the machine was 4.5 only

Any help why this happed ..

5f16cc926d2b6a17ec404aedd0ac6e31.jpg


Then changed new ones and completed the first step. Though I did not get the finish I was expecting. So decided to with 2nd step with Menzerna 3800plus and Rupes yellow Foam pad. Though finish is 80% I am still not understanding WHY AM I NOT GETTING 100 percent defect free after two steps

Please guide and help

The finished VW is
2c2d769398e2f21edfd2fa963a19480d.jpg



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Depending on the armspeed you move the polisher you need often more passes per sections. As a rule of thumb you move the polisher 1 inch per second. No pressure on the polisher just a good grip and guide it. It's not always easy to do a 2 by 2 feet section or smaller but it's the surface area to cover in a section. Slightly overlapping and crosshatch pattern. This is just some basic ones and sometimes it's not working but you adjust to the situation.

Most likely as it's a VW polo and the paint is rock hard on those and a combo with deep defects. You have a less aggressive combo that take them out in one go. Though you could do 5-6 passes and get near defect free is something to test out and see with a test spot. Now when you have done a cutting step already you may only need to be doing one more compounding with the HC400 and blue wool pad. The reason you get a not so great finish is that you didn't break down the diminishing abrasives in HC400. So you just did the first part of what it can do and that's cut the last 2-3 passes the abrasive gets smaller and polishing it to a more refined finish. And that's why a heavier compound like SHC300 would maybe get it to almost defect free depending on the paint and defects depths.

So if going after it again a test spot with 5-6 passes per section. With the HC400 and blue wool pad and see where it gets you. If not to satisfaction or you maybe gets to much of cut. Step up to Menzerna SHC300 and the blue wool pad and see where it gets you. And this is only test spot so don't do the whole car if not satisfied with the defect removal. Then refine with a polish and polishing pad. When going from SHC300 you could need to be getting the SF3500 as it has a little more cut to take out the haze than the SF3800 has. And a Rupes yellow foam pad is often a great combo.

Maybe some of this is to any help. But it's hard to say what will work and not. It's just trying it out. And remember to do test spots on different spots and not the same one always.

/ Tony
 
Thanks tony for your suggestion but my issue is I don’t have access to other polishes you have mentioned in India that is a harder part

As you rightly said I did the test spot which went right but as I progressed panel by panel is where i got stuck.

I was hesitant on more passes thinking that I would damage the paint.

Is there a way you can determine I don’t burn through clear coat. Is there a stop point indicating further to this I will burn the clear coat




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Sounds like you're applying too much pressure to the head of the polisher. Try backing off a tad, and see where that gets you. I prefer "light but firm" pressure. My goal is to get as much motion out of the pad while staying engaged on the paint.

I like to do four passes with 400. Two passes on a lower speed like 2 or 3 (using a Duetto) with pretty slow arm speed. This is to let the agglomerated (clumped) abrasives stay larger for a longer amount of time, which allows them to cut more paint. The last two passes I can stay atbthe same speeds, but sometime jump to speed 4 or 5 to try and get a better finish. These abrasives are very unique in that they are comprised of non diminishing grains, in essence switching from a "diminishing" abrasive to a "non diminishing" abrasive.

If all the defects are removed, and polishing session with 3500 will bring the gloss to even higher levels.
 
Have you done the washer mod?

If not, is the shroud and plate lubricated?
 
The polish may be the issue. When I spoke with Dylan from Rupes at Mobile Tech Expo he advised against using Menzerna 400 with the Rupes blue foam pads, as it will eat thru the pad cell structure! Not sure if the same thing is happening with this pad and backing.
 
I’m not sure what is going on with your wool pads. I just did a car with 400 and Rupes blue wool pads and had no pad separation at all. I was using Rupes 15 MKII on 4.5 on BMW paint. I followed up with Menzerma 3500 on a Rupes yellow to remove the slight haze. In my experience Menzerma 3800 just doesn’t have enough cut to remove haze on hard German paint systems. 3800 is more of a “jeweling” Polish than a true correction Polish. Remember you have to “work” Menzerma polishes to get the best out of them. The abrasives start large and break down into smaller particles creating a great finish.

Sometimes Meguires d300 can remove more defects than Menzerma 400 since d300 has a longer cutting period. d300 usually needs more refining after use than 400. Both are great abrasive technologies.
 
Manilruben said:
Thanks tony for your suggestion but my issue is I don’t have access to other polishes you have mentioned in India that is a harder part

As you rightly said I did the test spot which went right but as I progressed panel by panel is where i got stuck.

I was hesitant on more passes thinking that I would damage the paint.

Is there a way you can determine I don’t burn through clear coat. Is there a stop point indicating further to this I will burn the clear coat




Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
Click to expand...

The only way is to use a paint thickness gauge. And control measure after the test spot on how much clearcoat you cutting off.

Ohh thought since you had the Menzerna HC400 and SF3800 you could get other polishes from them. To stay inside of the rules on the forum. What brands of polishes do you have access to that is sold on AGO? Or PM me with a list and I maybe know of some of the polishes you have access to.

Did you use the same pad when you saw the lesser results? That's is the big drawback with only use 1 pad or a few on a whole car. It gets build up residue of polish and clearcoat that you don't are able to brush out or blow out the pad. And you loose cut from the pad.

If you gotten the cut from the 2-3 passes you are around half way through the breaking down the diminishing abrasives in HC400. So the last passes you cut like a medium cut polish to polish the last 2-3 passes extra. If you stop to soon you have not broken down the abrasives enough and has a finish that is not done. And you see more haze than you do if you polish 2-3 extra passes. But all depends on the armspeed you move the polisher with. Move too fast and you don't break them down and move too slow you break them down too soon and maybe overwork the polish.

With the pad break it can be you use it too much and it gets saturated and heat building up and weakens the interface where it's glued with the velcro. And it's goes faster if useing to much of polish on the pad. Also as mentioned above it can be too much pressure on the polisher. And sometimes just unlucky to have a manufacturing fault pad.
 
I want to try these new Rupes wool pads, but have been hesitant to plunk down $25 on a single pad. I've been waiting to hear reports about their durability. The B&S Euro-wool pads are half the cost.
 
dlc95 said:
Sounds like you're applying too much pressure to the head of the polisher. Try backing off a tad, and see where that gets you. I prefer "light but firm" pressure. My goal is to get as much motion out of the pad while staying engaged on the paint.

I like to do four passes with 400. Two passes on a lower speed like 2 or 3 (using a Duetto) with pretty slow arm speed. This is to let the agglomerated (clumped) abrasives stay larger for a longer amount of time, which allows them to cut more paint. The last two passes I can stay atbthe same speeds, but sometime jump to speed 4 or 5 to try and get a better finish. These abrasives are very unique in that they are comprised of non diminishing grains, in essence switching from a "diminishing" abrasive to a "non diminishing" abrasive.

If all the defects are removed, and polishing session with 3500 will bring the gloss to even higher levels.
Click to expand...

Thank you ! There was this question on the amount of pressure on the machine. Did not pay attention to that part however will try that in my next project


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dlc95 said:
Have you done the washer mod?

If not, is the shroud and plate lubricated?
Click to expand...

Washer mod yes I did see a couple YouTube videos but i was not sure whether I should

On the lubrications can you please elaborate


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DBAILEY said:
I want to try these new Rupes wool pads, but have been hesitant to plunk down $25 on a single pad. I've been waiting to hear reports about their durability. The B&S Euro-wool pads are half the cost.
Click to expand...

Yes B&S uro are fantastic pads unfortunately you don’t get them in india


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SWETM said:
The only way is to use a paint thickness gauge. And control measure after the test spot on how much clearcoat you cutting off.

Ohh thought since you had the Menzerna HC400 and SF3800 you could get other polishes from them. To stay inside of the rules on the forum. What brands of polishes do you have access to that is sold on AGO? Or PM me with a list and I maybe know of some of the polishes you have access to.

Did you use the same pad when you saw the lesser results? That's is the big drawback with only use 1 pad or a few on a whole car. It gets build up residue of polish and clearcoat that you don't are able to brush out or blow out the pad. And you loose cut from the pad.

If you gotten the cut from the 2-3 passes you are around half way through the breaking down the diminishing abrasives in HC400. So the last passes you cut like a medium cut polish to polish the last 2-3 passes extra. If you stop to soon you have not broken down the abrasives enough and has a finish that is not done. And you see more haze than you do if you polish 2-3 extra passes. But all depends on the armspeed you move the polisher with. Move too fast and you don't break them down and move too slow you break them down too soon and maybe overwork the polish.

With the pad break it can be you use it too much and it gets saturated and heat building up and weakens the interface where it's glued with the velcro. And it's goes faster if useing to much of polish on the pad. Also as mentioned above it can be too much pressure on the polisher. And sometimes just unlucky to have a manufacturing fault pad.
Click to expand...

Paint thickness gauge I am searching desperately for one hope to get it soon

When I saw lesser results I cleaned the pads using Rupes claw tool then primed it after that I went on further it was the fender of the car. When I realised that defect removal was not happening.

I jumped to the hood followed the process of cleaning the pad and started after 2 passes the pad snapped off . New Fresh pad from the shelf with half fender and part of the hood the pad snapped.

The saddest part I contacted the local dealer who had sold me the machine and pads he had a very straight answer “sir you did not fit the pad properly to the machine “ I did want to argue knowing how knowledgeable the guy is.

I will PM you the list I have access to so that I can get some help


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rlmccarty2000 said:
I’m not sure what is going on with your wool pads. I just did a car with 400 and Rupes blue wool pads and had no pad separation at all. I was using Rupes 15 MKII on 4.5 on BMW paint. I followed up with Menzerma 3500 on a Rupes yellow to remove the slight haze. In my experience Menzerma 3800 just doesn’t have enough cut to remove haze on hard German paint systems. 3800 is more of a “jeweling” Polish than a true correction Polish. Remember you have to “work” Menzerma polishes to get the best out of them. The abrasives start large and break down into smaller particles creating a great finish.

Sometimes Meguires d300 can remove more defects than Menzerma 400 since d300 has a longer cutting period. d300 usually needs more refining after use than 400. Both are great abrasive technologies.
Click to expand...

Thank you I think the cycle time was short as you suggested will work on the polish. I am happy to know what menzerna is actually this insight is a great help. Thank you


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mc2hill said:
The polish may be the issue. When I spoke with Dylan from Rupes at Mobile Tech Expo he advised against using Menzerna 400 with the Rupes blue foam pads, as it will eat thru the pad cell structure! Not sure if the same thing is happening with this pad and backing.
Click to expand...

But I have seen lot of them using the combination. I think the Rupes foam had some issues in some start incidents. So one suggestion was to use LC orange CCs pads


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I think it was FG400 that was causing the Rupes green foam pads to deteriorate quickly
 
Manilruben said:
Washer mod yes I did see a couple YouTube videos but i was not sure whether I should

On the lubrications can you please elaborate


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Click to expand...

What I do, is take the the plate off the tool, clean and the rubber shroud.

Then I take a small dab of dielectric grease and apply of to the part of the plate that comes into contact with the rubber shroud. You don't want to slather a ton of it on because it can get a little messy. I've also found too much will restrict rotation, which was a real head scratcher...

It needs to be done periodically as the grease breaks down and gets contaminated with compound dust.

It doesn't need to be that involved though. There have been times where I put a tiny bit on the blue part of the plate, wiped off my finger, and got back to work...
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
Jason Rose of Rupes told me completely avoid high solvent compounds with the Rupes green pad. FG400 is a high solvent compound.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app
Click to expand...

I can back that up. Menzerma products can cause Rupes pads to delaminate. This was a problem a few years back. I’m not sure if Rupes has corrected the problem. I quit using the Rupes blue and green pads in favor of microfiber and wool. I’ve never had a problem with Menzerma and Rupes yellow pads, but I don’t let them get saturated with polish. My main problem was with the green 4 inch pad.
 
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