rupes mark 2 15???

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is the rupes mark 2 worth the extra 90 bucks over the original?

also if you know what is the benefit of a long throw and a forced rotation machine? meaning if i have both is there some things i want to use the forced rotation machine on that work better then a long throw? or does the long throw beat the forced rotation in any situation?
 
Forced rotation flex 3401 can't beat that machine.To much stalling with these new machines today.Get the flex and you will be happy and zero promblems and you can blast through anything.
 
GSKR said:
Forced rotation flex 3401 can't beat that machine.To much stalling with these new machines today.Get the flex and you will be happy and zero promblems and you can blast through anything.
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do you have a long throw?
 
Experiencing the 7424xp eat a 3401 convinced me I didn't need forced rotation. I don't have stalling issues with free spindle tools. However, I did spend a considerable amount of time getting my technique together. It was probably from using one of those cheap TW 6" orbitals from Walmart prior to getting really serious about this around 2008. It was either the rotary or the wax spreader...
 
Take advice from those that own both and not the opinions of those that just own one or the other and accept the garbage they read on the net.
 
I have The 3401 & a gen 1 Rupes 21. The flex is a beast as it has aptly been named,it will work you but it does a good job with no stalling. You work the Rupes & must learn the technique of it to reap the benefits. Of the 2,I think the Rupes is a smoother machine. Think Ferrari vs F350 super duty. However I can't comment on the Rupes MK 2 as I don't have one of those........Yet.
 
I owned both. I sold the 3401. It's a great machine, just takes a lot more physical effort to correct with it. I've got back problems and didn't need it. The Mark II is easy to operate, very little downward pressure. I can speak for the ES, but I've had no stalling issues with the Mark II. I also have a G21, some stall issues with that when using the 6.5" pads. Not bad though. With a 5-5.5" pads no problems.
 
It's all personal preference. I do find it kind of humorous that most long throw users will tell you both are good machines, but the Flex owners always want to take #### at Rupes.
 
It's all personal preferences you are correct.Ive bought some machines and used them for 10 minutes and returned them that same day.I have a 3401 makita rotary and 2 gg6.most of my work I use gg6.for airplanes with extremely hard finishes 3401.
 
DaveT435 said:
It's all personal preference.
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Very true and this is why people need to try machines to see if they like them. I have a 3401 and G21 and use both regularly, but the G21 for me is used more and a better user experience. Plus, I've practiced enough with it to get minimal if no stalling at all.
 
DaveT435 said:
I owned both. I sold the 3401. It's a great machine, just takes a lot more physical effort to correct with it. I've got back problems and didn't need it. The Mark II is easy to operate, very little downward pressure. I can speak for the ES, but I've had no stalling issues with the Mark II. I also have a G21, some stall issues with that when using the 6.5" pads. Not bad though. With a 5-5.5" pads no problems.
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That was my experience.

I really loved using that 3401, because I find it to be a very refined, smooth operating machine. It was a lot of money to keep being set aside for a significantly lesser investment in the PC.

It's so much to do with technique, and personal approach though. I treat my orbitals like little rotaries, using the pad, abrasive, and if needed - high edge speeds to burnish away swirls. That thing can get humming if you're not laying down on it. The 3401 isn't able to achieve that edge speed. However, if you like, or are used to using a lot of pressure, the 3401 is fantastic!

The last time I used it, it was on a 2010 black Ford Focus, and this thing was absolutely trashed.

I started with a blue b&s polishing pad, and Ultimate Polish. Nope, not enough. Switched to green pad and Ultimate Compound - success.

I also tried orange and yellow pads, which also failed to match the green. Then I tried them with the 3401. When I got to the green pad I had high hopes, but I had to go over the same section twice, where it was once with the PC. I used the 7424xp for the rest of the car, polished it, sealed it, got paid, went home. That was when I decided to sell it. It went to a good home here in MI. If he ever sells it, it will be coming back.

Lately I've just been using my Rupes system, and totally loving it. I used it a lot over the summer, but now I'm really falling for it. So much that I'm selling some of my PC tools, some of my Megs excess product, and pads to reinvest in my Rupes arsenal.

It took me quite a bit to get really comfortable with the system. Mostly playing with the amount of product to put on the pad. Every day that I use the system, the more comfortable I am with it.

Regardless of what anyone here says, it's been proven time and again that both the Bigfoot tools, and Flex tools are 100% capable of performing to a professional level, and delivering world class results.

You could end up with both a Bigfoot, and a 3401!
 
I've used long throw machines and the 3401. From my experience, the 3401 is great if you have garbage technique. My partner is the one who did the mommy cars and work trucks while I did all the polishing jobs. Ever since I left I he's bought a 3401 and has had way more success. Of course he's still running the thing in speed 6 for everything.....

I on the other hand am very conscious of keeping the pad flat. I rarely ever stall my free spindle DA's and I have the PC and GG6 personally plus Harbor Freight DA's at the shop. I also have the first generation Rupes 21 and just bought the G15. I correct and finish faster with the long throw DAs.


I'm not saying all people who use the 3401 have garbage technique. But I feel that long throw machines have a pretty large advantage in speed of correction when you're already keeping the pad completely flat without thinking about it. I honestly don't see much a difference in speed between a forced rotation 8mm amd free spindle 8mm DA. They're covering the same area and the pressure difference isn't that great. I'm sure there's a slight benefit to the pad not slowing down though, but not as much as a long stroke machine.

Sorry if the grammar is crap. I've had 3 margaritas and I'm on my phone.
 
The thing is when I got my 3401 I loved it, but months in and the novelty started wearing. Its nowhere near as smooth,quiet,comfortable or powerful as the Rupes. You gotta use slow arm speed and heavy pressure to get any correction out if it and most of my onsite customer complaints of noise have been on the 3401. By today's standards its outdated, lacks refinement and the goal posts set by the Rupes MKII has shifted too far.

Is the 3401 well built? Yes like a tank! Is it entertaining to use? Yes, and a big BUT, becomes tiring and heavy on the body soon. Are there superior modern day offerings? Most definitely.

The Rupes feels 2017, the 3401 feels 2007. If you more into caveman type paint grinding with no finesse with little to no technique, stick with the 3401. If detailing is art to you, Rupes all the way.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Very true and this is why people need to try machines to see if they like them. I have a 3401 and G21 and use both regularly, but the G21 for me is used more and a better user experience. Plus, I've practiced enough with it to get minimal if no stalling at all.
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i agree but where can you try it? at four hundred bucks a machine i surely cant afford to buy them all to try
 
i have a feeling if i get a flex it wont be much different then the gg6?
 
Flex 3401

Pros
No stalling
This one machine can handle almost 90% of every job, even tight areas (because it doesn't stall)
Great for bumpers and contours
Excellent at wetsanding removal on contour areas.

Cons
1.Gets Hot
2.Requires more downward pressure
3.Harder and more fatigue than a long-throw
4.Not as smooth
5. Not ideal for microfiber cutting pads (I am not a huge fan to cut with foam, if I'm performing a 2 step I want to get it over with. And microfiber cuts better than foam)


Long Throw 21mm or 15mm

Pros

1. 21mm or 15mm compared to 3401 8mm throw, that means it is covering either 2x and almost 3x more surface area and that = more paint correction and faster job.
2. Extremely smooth does not require the downward pressure the 3401 requires
3. Much easier on the body
4. Can out cut and achieve faster correction on open panels were stalling is not a issue.
5. Ideal for microfiber cutting pads. (Pair 21 or 15mm throw with a microfiber cutting pad and a quality compound and you will be a defect removal maniac)


Cons

1. Can stall (although the mark 2 and boss machines really bridged the gap in the stalling issue the contour and area has to be very difficult and almost impossible if I can not get it to work) technique is key in this matter.
2. Sometimes you need more than 1 machine using a long throw. (Sometimes in certain situations having a longthrow 15mm or 21mm is not ideal do to its long stroke)
3. Tight areas can cause stalling no matter how great your technique is. ie: bumpers (I always use my 3401 for bumpers)


If I had to choose one machine it is a long throw.

However I love that I have all the machines as I feel they are all a excellent team and all compliment each other. Where the flex 3401 lacks the long throws thrive, where the long throws lack the 3401 thrives.

On a wide open panel a long throw will out perform a 3401 with less efort. And when you are doing this day in and day out body fatigue has alot to do with the quality of your work.

That is my personal opinion. And this is subjective. I have hours and hours of experience with each machine.

See what I posted above and use that to help you pick what sounds best for you.




Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
Flex 3401

Pros
No stalling
This one machine can handle almost 90% of every job, even tight areas (because it doesn't stall)
Great for bumpers and contours
Excellent at wetsanding removal on contour areas.

Cons
1.Gets Hot
2.Requires more downward pressure
3.Harder and more fatigue than a long-throw
4.Not as smooth
5. Not ideal for microfiber cutting pads (I am not a huge fan to cut with foam, if I'm performing a 2 step I want to get it over with. And microfiber cuts better than foam)


Long Throw 21mm or 15mm

Pros

1. 21mm or 15mm compared to 3401 8mm throw, that means it is covering either 2x and almost 3x more surface area and that = more paint correction and faster job.
2. Extremely smooth does not require the downward pressure the 3401 requires
3. Much easier on the body
4. Can out cut and achieve faster correction on open panels were stalling is not a issue.
5. Ideal for microfiber cutting pads. (Pair 21 or 15mm throw with a microfiber cutting pad and a quality compound and you will be a defect removal maniac)


Cons

1. Can stall (although the mark 2 and boss machines really bridged the gap in the stalling issue the contour and area has to be very difficult and almost impossible if I can not get it to work) technique is key in this matter.
2. Sometimes you need more than 1 machine using a long throw. (Sometimes in certain situations having a longthrow 15mm or 21mm is not ideal do to its long stroke)
3. Tight areas can cause stalling no matter how great your technique is. ie: bumpers (I always use my 3401 for bumpers)


If I had to choose one machine it is a long throw.

However I love that I have all the machines as I feel they are all a excellent team and all compliment each other. Where the flex 3401 lacks the long throws thrive, where the long throws lack the 3401 thrives.

On a wide open panel a long throw will out perform a 3401 with less efort. And when you are doing this day in and day out body fatigue has alot to do with the quality of your work.

That is my personal opinion. And this is subjective. I have hours and hours of experience with each machine.

See what I posted above and use that to help you pick what sounds best for you.




Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Nice (and timely for me) analysis. Picked up LHR15 Mk 2 last week, have the LHR75 coming this week, pondering adding XC3401 to the mix. Current thinking is 3401 w/ 6.5" Hybrids for compounding quickly 1st step, Rupes combo for refinement. So Essentially Flex = Compound, Rupes = Polish.

Realize that Flex gonna beat me up more but would be worthwhile trade off if quicker at the compounding w/ 6.5" pads and less 'teqnique' vs. Rupes combo and finesse.

Eh, no hurry...would wait for no exclusions sale to snatch a Flex & pads although Autopia can get 6 pad hybrid set now for around $42. Decisions, decisions...also have to admit a bit of curiosity regarding the 'Beast' 3401.

Curious that PBMG has not yet indicated availability of Force Hybrid pads vs. old style Hybrid Powerfinish, unless that's just a nomenclature difference. Know the XCE 3401 supposed to be out soon but they been talking about that for the last year and still nothing concrete.

Eh, maybe it's time to just put the credit card away for a bit...been a busy December.

No pro here, no money involved in jobs just looking to cut compound/polish time and effort. Don't mind spending the money on tools if a real difference/benefit to having all the main players.

Usually pick and choose cars I wanna do...the darker the paint and the more hammered the better...that's what makes it fun!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
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