Rupes Recommended Method for Pad Priming

[2black1s]

BigFoot 101: Priming Pads [Chapter 03] - Bing video (Jump to 2:50 minute mark)

Does anyone else see this pad priming process as unnecessarily risky? I certainly do!

I would never, ever, under any circumstance, press down on a polisher in a single location for 20-30 seconds as shown in the linked video.

I cut my teeth with rotary polishers in the late 1960s so my opinion may differ from those of you who learned with Random Orbital Polishers. While I completely understand that Random Orbital Polishers are less aggressive and much more forgiving than a Rotary Polisher, I can't see myself ever running ANY polisher in a single location for that period of time.

Keeping a polisher moving at all times is something I learned a very long time ago and that practice is something I still employ, regardless of polisher type.

If I were ever to use this Rupes recommended method to prime a pad, I'd have to have a dedicated scrap panel to use for pad priming. I could never bring myself to doing that process on a car I was polishing.

What do you guys and girls think?

 

[The Guz]

Nope don’t see it as risky. Have done it many times. The tool is set to a low speed anyway. I believe they mention speed 2 or 3.

 

[98CayenneTA]

I agree 100% and find that priming method to be absolutley utterly unnecessary, risky and over the top..... Honestly kinda silly.....

Put product on your pad and make your section passes.... boom, done, pad primed.

 

[PaulMys]

To each his own, but I would never do that to prime a pad.

Like 98CTA said, just apply the initial amount of product and get to work. Done.

 

[chilly]

While on the subject of pad priming does anyone have any insights or comments on Todd Cooperider of Esoteric and his statement that pad priming is totally unnecessary when using "good products"?

I am specifically referring to him talking about using Megs microfiber cutting pads with Jescar Correcting Compound

He says 3 dots of product and go to work, no priming required

I tried that ONCE and it felt sooooooo wrong

Look up "dry buffing" and there is a picture of me trying that process (well not really)

I know people will use a ton to prime a microfiber pad, blot, brush, or blow out the excess and then put 3 more dots down for actual cutting and I feel that is overkill in the opposite direction

I will use maybe 50% more than I normally would for a section pass to smear in to prime and then a couple dots more

There are a lot of YouTube detailing people who are entertaining but who I certainly don't take advice from but Todd has always seemed to be one of the most genuine and believable people out there

IDK...

 

[98CayenneTA]

I usually prime microfiber pads just because it makes the initial pass much smoother.

As far as prime vs non and the way a quality product finishes down I usually get slightly more micro maring when not priming for the first couple sections.

 

[PaulMys]

While on the subject of pad priming does anyone have any insights or comments on Todd Cooperider of Esoteric and his statement that pad priming is totally unnecessary when using "good products"?

I am specifically referring to him talking about using Megs microfiber cutting pads with Jescar Correcting Compound

He says 3 dots of product and go to work, no priming required

I tried that ONCE and it felt sooooooo wrong

Look up "dry buffing" and there is a picture of me trying that process (well not really)

I know people will use a ton to prime a microfiber pad, blot, brush, or blow out the excess and then put 3 more dots down for actual cutting and I feel that is overkill in the opposite direction

I will use maybe 50% more than I normally would for a section pass to smear in to prime and then a couple dots more

There are a lot of YouTube detailing people who are entertaining but who I certainly don't take advice from but Todd has always seemed to be one of the most genuine and believable people out there

IDK...

No way.

I read that "3 dot method" as well before I ever machine polished. Even knowing next to nothing, that seemed wrong. (And it is.)

Learning the correct amount of product to prime with takes a little practice, but it's not difficult. What pads, products, paint, and even weather conditions can be a factors. But don't overthink it.

I always start with a nice, generous circle of product on a new (foam) pad, and then I quickly spread it out on low speed. Then, ramp the speed up and go.

IMO, starting with too little or too much product is no huge deal. One will get you a little micro-marring, and one will prematurely clog the pad and not cut as well/heat up.

If you know what you are trying to achieve, and correct either problem soon after starting, it's nothing to worry about. But 3 dots?? Nope!

 

[Bruno Soares]

I don’t think it’s too risky at speed 2 like they recommend but I’ve never done it myself. I don’t prime foam pads anymore, I just put a little more product on the first go. I do prime microfiber pads though.

 

[chilly]

Thanks for the feedback

It felt wrong to me as well

To each his own but I’ll prime microfiber pads

I’m just a retired guy in his garage so time is not money and a few more ounces of product per car won’t break me

Regards Everyone

Michael

 

[chilly]

PS

Apologies for the hijack

I totally agree with the OP concerning Rupes method of priming

It flies in the face of everything I was ever taught about using an orbital

That bit of the video stuck in my mind when I watched it and honestly caused me to immediately be suspicious of the rest of the content

Again, to each his own but I will keep my pad moving thank you very much

 

[noorth]

I don’t think it’s too risky at speed 2 like they recommend but I’ve never done it myself. I don’t prime foam pads anymore, I just put a little more product on the first go. I do prime microfiber pads though.

Basically what i do. The first application i will put more then usual on the pad and the few times i used microfiber i primed it - i 1 step mostly so i don't use microfiber very often. Just seems like the logical thing to do with microfiber. Hundreds of successful detailers i'd imagine that don't prime foam pads. While the gloss i got from rupes DA fine and yellow foam pad is very good it doesn't have a very long working time. Rupes seems to be creating a very rigid system. Not my thing personally. I like to use my own imagination and intuition more then that. Back to 3D One, again.

Speed 2 shouldn't be risky i don't think.

 

[chilly]

I figured since we had already kicked this topic around I would post here

I have a feeling I must not have been the only one to question his methods

Almost 20 minutes on priming vs not priming

DEBUNKING pad priming, with SCIENCE! - YouTube

His conclusion is MORE hazing/micro marring from priming...

 

[The Guz]

I saw that video. I will stick the manufacturers pad priming recommendations rather than this method. Those gloss meters are nice but it is still flawed as it is not always the same number even placed in the same area. It is not like the pad is being primed every pass so no excess product is wasted.

 

[Rsurfer]

I saw that video. I will stick the manufacturers pad priming recommendations rather than this method. Those gloss meters are nice but it is still flawed as it is not always the same number even placed in the same area. It is not like the pad is being primed every pass so no excess product is wasted.

:iagree:And since you don't change pads after every panel, eventually your non primed pad will be primed.

 

[luckydawg]

Personally I believe the manufactures of products know what they are talking about 99.999999999999999999999999% ( you get the idea here ) of the time. The reason is to generate a LITTLE heat to make the pad more flexible / workable. Wouldn't generate enough heat to do any damage.

 

[chilly]

I’m struggling with how to say this

What you guys say is true

As we add section passes to a pad we add product and it get wetter and more full of product as well as residue

Even if we blow it or brush it out each pass we eventually reach the point of saturation in product AS WELL AS RESIDUE

If blowing and brushing was enough to get rid of it all we could do a car with 1 pad

I think we all know that the residue that builds up is responsible for a lot of the micro marring and haziness we can get

Pretty sure that’s a given

I just can’t for the life of me see how Todd can get hazing with a clean pad, all variables the same, just a difference in amount of product

The pad can’t pick up enough residue in 1 section pass to account for the haziness shown in that video

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I’m struggling to understand how he’s getting this result


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rsurfer]

I’m struggling with how to say this

What you guys say is true

As we add section passes to a pad we add product and it get wetter and more full of product as well as residue

Even if we blow it or brush it out each pass we eventually reach the point of saturation in product AS WELL AS RESIDUE

If blowing and brushing was enough to get rid of it all we could do a car with 1 pad

I think we all know that the residue that builds up is responsible for a lot of the micro marring and haziness we can get

Pretty sure that’s a given

I just can’t for the life of me see how Todd can get hazing with a clean pad, all variables the same, just a difference in amount of product

The pad can’t pick up enough residue in 1 section pass to account for the haziness shown in that video

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I’m struggling to understand how he’s getting this result


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could it be the compound that he's using and it's not breaking down causing some haze?

 

[PaulMys]

I’m struggling with how to say this

What you guys say is true

As we add section passes to a pad we add product and it get wetter and more full of product as well as residue

Even if we blow it or brush it out each pass we eventually reach the point of saturation in product AS WELL AS RESIDUE

If blowing and brushing was enough to get rid of it all we could do a car with 1 pad

I think we all know that the residue that builds up is responsible for a lot of the micro marring and haziness we can get

Pretty sure that’s a given

I just can’t for the life of me see how Todd can get hazing with a clean pad, all variables the same, just a difference in amount of product

The pad can’t pick up enough residue in 1 section pass to account for the haziness shown in that video

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I’m struggling to understand how he’s getting this result


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't waste time trying to understand nonsense. I have never experienced anything like this.

Any Yahoo can make a video and spin it any way they please........

 

[Dan Tran]

I am very glad that I am not the only one who feels this way. I respect all these professionals and their contribution to the detailing industry.

I personally have experience with RUPES DA System and a lot more with Todd’s approach to paint correction…

Currently, I prefer using Jescar Correcting Compound / Meguiar’s Microfiber Cutting Disc and Sonax Perfect Finish / RUPES DA Fine Foam Pad as my main go to.

I am very proficient with both approach / systems but the one factor that I have been battling with for over a year has been the idea of priming vs. no priming.

I don’t care for the RUPES priming method as I too think that with an inexperienced person, it can be risky. Are we assuming that everyone has a paint depth gauge? Long throw machines has a lot of action happening. Let’s not forget that.

While I can’t speak for everyone, I think we all can agree that achieving a fine finish from the compounding step alone is the best case scenario. Yet at the same time, knocking out light hazing with the polishing step is not difficult to accomplish either.

Currently, I prime all my pads according to the conventional method we all know of. However, I do blow my pads out after with a tornador air gun. But instead of loading up with 3 drops of product, I load up with literally a pea size drop. That is all.

As a side note, I am a low, low speed type of guy who uses the washer mod in case anyone is wondering…

My procedure continues as usual, blow out the pad every few cycles and load up again with one drop of product.

At the end of the day—as long as I, the professional am satisfied with the results I see, then I have a lot of confidence that my clients will be happy.

KISS. Don’t over think it. The end goal it to get rid of defects.

 

[2black1s]

I figured since we had already kicked this topic around I would post here

I have a feeling I must not have been the only one to question his methods

Almost 20 minutes on priming vs not priming

DEBUNKING pad priming, with SCIENCE! - YouTube

His conclusion is MORE hazing/micro marring from priming...

I watched the video and wrote a thorough, 5 or 6 paragraph response earlier today. When I tried to post it I got logged out and lost it.

I'm not going to try to rewrite it but the main points were as follows:
- The design of any test can have a major influence on the results
- The test depicted doesn't replicate real world conditions very accurately
- No one uses a new pad for every section
- The amount of product used for the two test sections varied widely

In the end, as far as detailing is concerned, the bottom line is results. How you get there is irrelevant as long as your process delivers the results you want and expect.

It's not rocket science.