frankprozzoly
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I do a rinseless wash after polish. I read to many bad things about IPA wipe downs. Will the sealant bond if there's still some polish residue
Sealant bonding
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cleanmycorolla
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you read bad things about an IPA wipe?
Also, don't overthink this all so much.
Also, don't overthink this all so much.
frankprozzoly
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Well everyone talks about it not having lubrication
JAF06SE
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What do you mean about not having lubrication? That's pretty much what the alcohol is removing all the lubricant that would interfere with you sealant bonding as well.
Mike Phillips
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I've posted and shown pictures of wiping with IPA can mar paint. You can really only see this on black but the point is if it's happening to clearcoated black it's likely happening to all clearcoated cars it's just your eyes can't see the marring on light colored paints.
If you mar the paint after polishing to perfection this is what I call working backwards.
I agree, too often people take something that is quite simple and turn it into rocket science.
As it relates to bonding people want to get the best bond between the product they are using to protect the paint and the paint so there will be maximum adhesion between the protection ingredients and the paint.
Makes sense on some levels but I've posted info from a real chemist that states it's not what most people think.
Zaino products actually started or pushed chemically stripping paint over the tipping point back in the early part of 2000 and ever since then people want to strip their paint using some type of hot solvent.
2 Points
1. Most people hanging out on a detailing discussion forum will re-apply "something" sooner than later so longevity isn't the biggest issue.
2. I've never walked out into a garage after waxing or sealing a car with a paint sealant to find the product all piled up on the garage floor surrounding the car because it didn't "bond" and therefore slipped off the paint.
See this article...
Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding
frankprozzoly
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I use meguiars 21 sealant. I've read that alcohol doesn't have lube and it's possible that it can cause marring. Some people say put some rinseless wash in with the alcohol. I just want to know if it's that important. I compound, polish then finishing polish then wipe it with something like ONR then seal
Mike Phillips
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Correct. IPA is the opposite of an oily lubricant. In context of detailing cars it's used to DISSOLVE oily films so they can be removed.
Because it's not a good lubricant, it doesn't help to lubricate the surface when you're wiping, thus the microfiber towels plus the pressure from your hand can leave marring in the paint.
Marring is the kind, gentle fluffy way of saying scratches.
Here's the article I wrote where I posted pictures of marring on clearcoated black paint.
Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer
If it were me? I'd keep it simple.
Wipe off the polish residue after polishing and then machine apply the M21. Allow it to dry and then enjoy your shiny car.
:dunno:
frankprozzoly
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Good article thanks
silverfox
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The longevity issue is quite amusing as you read through the forum threads because most car owners mess with their LSP long before its theoretical expiration range...whether its topping or maintenance polishing or whatever...I think we all tend to want to have the maximum longevity possible, but in reality its rarely ever realized with any product...and more often than not...by our own hand.
frankprozzoly
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I agree. I'm not concerned about how long it'll last. I'm just concerned about it being as effective as it can be while it's on
cleanmycorolla
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I'll have to give it a read when I find the time. I've used IPA wipes, but mostly use Eraser or DP Prep Polish or similar now. Thankfully I dont think my IPA wipe downs caused marring, that would've sucked!
Mike Phillips
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If you're uber careful and use your best, softest microfiber towels. Plus if you're working on a light colored car even if you are marring the paint you're eyes won't see it.
More of a principal type of thing that chemically stripping paint risks marring it which is working backwards in the process.
Me personally, I like each step I do to be working forward in the process to the final goal which is a perfect finish.
cleanmycorolla
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Mike Phillips
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LSP - The definition and the story behind the term
Copyright ©PBMA - AutogeekOnline.net® All Rights Reserved
Back in the early 1990's I used the term LSP when talking to a customer about detailing their car and as I used it in conversation it meant,
LSP = Last Step Product
Last Step Product means the last product to be applied and then removed off the paint before making the final wipe and then returning the keys and the car back to the owner and saying, it is finished.
Some people have thought that it means Last Step Protectant and it can mean that if you want to use it that way but it originally meant Last Step Product and there's a distinct reason for this, let me explain.
While most detailers work on cured paint, that is a car that has the original factory cured paint, my work included clients with freshly painted cars, or clients that didn't want their car's paint sealed with either a car wax or a paint sealant.
When working on freshly painted car, that is paint that is less than 30 days old, there is not a single paint manufacture that recommends sealing the paint before at least a minimum of 30 days air-cure has passed to insure any and all solvents or other ingredients used to thin and spray the paint have had a chance to outgass unhindered.
Car Waxes, Synthetic Paint Sealants, or Hybrid products, which is a blend of both natural protection ingredients combined with synthetic protection ingredients, no matter which one you use, all three types act to protect paint by doing a number of different things but one of these things is they seal the paint by coating over it and depositing their protection ingredients onto the surface.
It is this coating over and sealing with a sacrificial barrier coating that paint manufactures recommend a waiting period of at least 30 days and sometimes 60 or 90 days as recommendations differ between paint manufactures.
Because some of my work would involve sanding and then compounding and polishing paint that is less than 30 days old, the Last Step Product wold be a fresh-paint-safe Glaze or non-abrasive Pure Polish, not a wax or paint sealant.
Also, some of my customers owned cars that were on display only, never driven and instead of using a wax or paint sealant to lay down a coating of protection, they would request the car only be polished using a Glaze or non-abrasive Pure Polish.
Most companies that create products for use in body shops where fresh paint is sprayed also offer fresh-paint-safe Glazes and/or non-abrasive Pure Polishes and these types of product can be used on both fresh paint and also on cured paint if a person so desires. Because they are fresh-paint-safe, or "Body Shop Safe", they are usually water soluble and offer no protection in the way you think of a Car Wax or Synthetic Paint Sealant offers protection.
The point being, when I coined the term LSP, in the context I was using it, it meant Last Step Product because not all my last steps included applying a protection product like a car wax or paint sealant but instead included fresh paint glazes and polishes.
Anyway, that's what the term meant, the last product you apply before you make your final wipe and the job is finished.
Now days in the discussion forum world most people use the term in a way that means Last Step Product or Last Step Protectant but in both instances the words Product and Protectant are used in the context of a paint protection product like a car wax or paint sealant.
Perfectly okay by me, I just thought I would share the original meaning behind the word.
Cleaners versus No Cleaners
There has also been instances where people would define the term LSP to mean Last Step Protectant and the word Protectant specifically meant a finishing wax or a finishing sealant, not a cleaner/wax of any type.
If you're doing production detailing work and you're using a one-step cleaner/wax or cleaner/sealant, and this is the last product you apply to the paint, (and usually the first and only product you apply to the paint), then in a situation like this it's completely possible for a cleaner/wax to be the LSP, as in the cleaner/wax is the Last Step Product.
As near as I can track down, here's the first use of the acronym LSP on a discussion forum that dates to October 25th, 2003 and it was by me when posting to a thread about a new paint sealant that ended up becoming NXT Tech Wax.
!!!!! Meguiar's Lab Sample "d"!!!!! - Page 3
Post #68
Mike Phillips said:
And that's the story...