Sealant comparison

[RippyD]

Have a PW and will try this. Will also try again with my pressure sprayer - it seems to mist very well.

 

[RippyD]

Contact angle has always been a measure. Which is why it's common to see a 110 contact angle on many coating descriptions.

I get this. I can't seen to find my water droplet contact angle measurement tool. Want loan me one?

 

[Cruzscarwash]

I get this. I can't seen to find my water droplet contact angle measurement tool. Want loan me one?

It's in the mail

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[RippyD]

Mother nature helped out. I walked outside this morning and it was just barely drizzling out - misting. So of course I checked the hoods! Still hard to get good pics that compare, but grabbed a couple that are usable. I need to drop post-its s with notes on them next time so I can reference what different areas.

Summary of what I saw: most of the sealants had smaller beads than the non-treated parts of the hood. I'm sure there were variances in beading size, but they weren't obvious with one exception. The areas that are not sheeting water had larger beads that were almost indistinguishable from the tape lines. So some decent correlations here.

This is the left side up by the windshield of the Rover. SFX-4 had noticeably tighter beading than anything else on the hood. BF Carnuba is to the right of it. You can see the tape line pretty clearly.

One more from the left side looking across the front of the hood toward the right. Tape lines are visible. Not a lot of difference in beading.

Another across the front of the hood. You can see the drops getting bigger as it transitions from McKee's Fast Wax (working) to Griot's Finishing Sealant.

Pic of the right and middle sections of the Sentra hood. I don't see any difference.

 

[RippyD]

Washed and dried the Sentra Hood today then hit it with water. Everything still working. The middle section is now outperforming the left. No idea why. DG Rinseless still working best.

Sentra hood video

Note that DG Rinseless mixed 8:1 comes in at ~$0.08 per oz mixed as a QD, about 1/2 that if bought by the gallon. Compare this to Aquawax at $0.45 per oz or Opt Spray Wax at $0.88 per oz. It's already done as well as those two in terms of durability. To be fair, those were in the Winter and got rained on every day. Probably need to test all the best spray waxes
and QDs under similar conditions.

 

[davidc]

I knew that DG Rinseless is good but never thought it would be better than straight Aquawax. Now the question is why.

Dave

 

[RippyD]

Guessing dry vs. wet weather. Will do side-by-side this summer and see how it goes.

 

[RippyD]

Checked both hoods the other day. Rinsed to remove pollen and other debris, washed with N-914 at 128:1, rinsed again, and dried.

Here it is a few seconds after hitting it with water. The two products in front that were the fastest have slowed down. If you look to the upper left you can see that SFX-4 is now clearing much faster than everything else.

Same thing taken from the left side.

A few seconds later Dodo Supreme, Four Star, McKee's Fast Wax, and Mystery #4 are moving water.

On the right side you can see Nano Shock working well. Megs #20, Poorboys EXP, and 3M Synthetic are starting to move water. HD Poxy less so.

Harder to see in this one. Griots Finishing and Poorboys Sealant not doing much. On the left from McKee's Fast Wax is clear. Right front Megs #20 is mostly clear. Above Megs Poorboys EXP is sort of working, 3M Wax is doing ok, HD Poxy not doing much. To the left of those nothing working well except Nano Shock.

20 seconds or so later you the right side has cleared except for HD Poxy.

Left side is mostly clear. 2nd row in from the left side Rupes 808 and Prima Hydro are not really clearing any faster than the areas with no product.

Looking from right to left across the hood you can see Poorboy's Sealant and Griot's Finishing Sealant not working well.

Summary: These look about the same as last time in terms of what's working and what isn't. The two fastest products have slowed, and SFX-4 is now performing the fastest.

Animation of the Sentra Hood. Right side (DG Rinseless as a QD) still doing the best. Middle section is just a little better than nothing. Ech2o+Reload seems to be working about the same rate as the section with nothing on it.

 

[Cruzscarwash]

So would you think that using DG for your wash let's say every 2 weeks would give you endless protection?? Especially if the surface is covered with a good sealant like PNS or fk100p?

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[RippyD]

Good question. I'll have to see what it does at rinseless dilution. But the answer is I think so. If you wash with something that leaves protection or use a QD/Spray wax every 2-3 weeks this seems like a solid option. And even with a very durable sealant, I always get more shine with a QD or a spray wax over it.

The other answer is "how would you know?" If I apply a sealant that lasts 6 months and then top it every 2 weeks with Aquawax, I'm going to get great beading and sheeting. Did the sealant last longer or is it just the Aquawax working? I don't know. This could maybe be a long term test to to see if a 2nd sealant helps a first one last longer. I tend to think if you're going to apply a spray every 2-3 weeks it doesn't matter much.

 

[AllenK]

The DG rinseless mixed as a QD makes for a phenomenal product. It's very economical,and has really great durability just as the test says. It looks great too. I will always try different things,but I could throw away just about all other detailers and spray waxes and just use the DG.

 

[MattPersman]

So would you think that using DG for your wash let's say every 2 weeks would give you endless protection?? Especially if the surface is covered with a good sealant like PNS or fk100p?

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I imagine the actual sealant would wear off eventually and the DG protection would be there for its duration. Every two weeks may be enough for protection.

But where is the actual information on what protection aquawax offers? Doesn’t say anything on their own website about any protection

Many things can bead but what about UV inhibitors and protection from bird bombs rail dust, contamination, acid rain, alkaline products etc


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[Cruzscarwash]

I imagine the actual sealant would wear off eventually and the DG protection would be there for its duration. Every two weeks may be enough for protection.

But where is the actual information on what protection aquawax offers? Doesn’t say anything on their own website about any protection

Many things can bead but what about UV inhibitors and protection from bird bombs rail dust, contamination, acid rain, alkaline products etc


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Your right it doesn't mention UV protection only the fact that it adds protection and that it's a polymer sealant

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[DMiglio]

The other answer is "how would you know?" If I apply a sealant that lasts 6 months and then top it every 2 weeks with Aquawax, I'm going to get great beading and sheeting. Did the sealant last longer or is it just the Aquawax working? I don't know. This could maybe be a long term test to to see if a 2nd sealant helps a first one last longer. I tend to think if you're going to apply a spray every 2-3 weeks it doesn't matter much.

I’ve been reading a lot of different posts about product durability whether it’s a wax, sealant or coating and if using toppers, how do we or anybody other than the chemists and most likely the marketers know a products true durability?

I think we can all agree we just love our cars and love to try different products to enhance the paint, shine and annoy our significant others, but by doing that how do we know if products are meeting durability claims? I’ll take a stab at this, but end of the day I don’t think it’s going to matter all that much(maybe more so with coatings cause it’s a “newer” market with bold claims) if we are maintaining regularly and treating our vehicles as well as we do.

We’ve all done this for years I’m sure as hobbyists, besides the easy visual cues of a product “working” and it’s durability(beads, sheeting, appearant shine, self cleaning), we can also feel when something isn’t working as well. I notice after applying a good durable and proven LSP, say C845, that maybe 3-4 months in of regular washes with a drying aid, usually D156, the beading may not be as impressive even with a topper like it was the first couple months. The sheeting might slow, removing bugs or bird poop might be a bit more difficult if it’s been sitting a day or two as opposed to when the LSP has been freshly applied.

I don’t think this is truly the LSP not lasting or the toppers not working etc,(as it still beads, a bit larger though, still sheets, possibly slower, shines, rinses well but not amazingly fast) but could be a case of bonded contaminants taking hold(this is Eldorado2k’s favorite way to test LSP). Or as we know with even the miracle chemistry of coatings that something as simple as our wash soap/shampoo can be causing issues. With this we’ve seen people switch to a soap like Reset and do an Iron X and/or Tar X treatment, possibly mild clay and seen the coating come back to life.

So what am I getting at with all this, where do we go from here to answer, “how would you know?” If your LSP is holding up, doing it’s job.. I don’t want to do this test, but I know some forumers would be excited for the results and maybe somebody would do it. Maybe take a hood and divide it up into say 6 sections(6 month sealant), and another panel also divided into 6 with the same LSP. Wash with only products that leave nothing behind(Reset, N914) and use no toppers on the hood but use on the other panel, let’s say a trunk. Then every month clay only one section of each panel, check for contaminants and do the usual beading and sheeting test(might also be interesting to see if the section “comes back to life” after some testing although clay might remove it or hinder it immensely).

Maybe this will show the “6 month” sealant is still working but slowing down as it gets longer in the tooth, maybe it’ll show the toppers reduce contaminants over time or do nothing but help with beading or very short term protection that maybe adds up over time to help the LSP keep working to its best, maybe it just adds shine? Idk but might be interesting to see an outcome to a test like this?

Thanks for reading this massive wall of text but the last few posts really got my brain going!

 

[Cruzscarwash]

Good question. I'll have to see what it does at rinseless dilution. But the answer is I think so. If you wash with something that leaves protection or use a QD/Spray wax every 2-3 weeks this seems like a solid option. And even with a very durable sealant, I always get more shine with a QD or a spray wax over it.

The other answer is "how would you know?" If I apply a sealant that lasts 6 months and then top it every 2 weeks with Aquawax, I'm going to get great beading and sheeting. Did the sealant last longer or is it just the Aquawax working? I don't know. This could maybe be a long term test to to see if a 2nd sealant helps a first one last longer. I tend to think if you're going to apply a spray every 2-3 weeks it doesn't matter much.

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[RippyD]

Update from several days ago. I washed with N-914 at 256:1 then dried.

Sentra hood: Duragloss Rinseless as a QD is still holding up well. The center section is doing a little better than no product. The left side is really no better than the untreated section. Animation.

Right side of Rover hood: everything has slowed down. Megs 20 and 3M synthetic wax working ok. Nanoshock and Poorboys EXP clearing about 50%. The rest are not doing much. Animation.

Left side: Doing well. Everything clearing except Rupes 808 and Prima Hydro. Animation.

 

[RippyD]

So what am I getting at with all this, where do we go from here to answer, “how would you know?” If your LSP is holding up, doing it’s job.. I don’t want to do this test, but I know some forumers would be excited for the results and maybe somebody would do it. Maybe take a hood and divide it up into say 6 sections(6 month sealant), and another panel also divided into 6 with the same LSP. Wash with only products that leave nothing behind(Reset, N914) and use no toppers on the hood but use on the other panel, let’s say a trunk. Then every month clay only one section of each panel, check for contaminants and do the usual beading and sheeting test(might also be interesting to see if the section “comes back to life” after some testing although clay might remove it or hinder it immensely).

I believe your first half of this is exactly what I'm doing. I'm using only N-914 or other wash products that have no gloss enhancers. As to your suggestion of using a topper, I'll ask this: take two sections, one with a sealant on it and one with nothing. Add a topper to both of them every week and then measure performance. What would you expect to see?

I'd expect to see both them them performing identically and sheeting water perpetually. The water is reacting to the LSP, and as far as I know and assuming complete coverage, what's under the LSP is irrelevant. For this reason, I don't see how testing a sealant (or a coating for that matter) with something else applied on top of it is a valid test. You're testing the water repellence of the topper, not the product underlying it. This assumes that the topper product adheres to the underlying sealant. I don't know this could be determined.

Anybody please feel free to disagree with me or explain why I'm wrong. This is a fundamental belief I have for these tests and I'd like to know if it's incorrect.

 

[DMiglio]

RippyD, I much prefer your simpler explanation and test(two panels as opposed to 6 or more) over my wall of text! Idk why but for some reason I’d feel the section with the sealant LSP might fair better, just assuming it has a stronger base of protection over a spray LSP section alone.

I agree with you that water will be reacting to whatever LSP has been applied and not a base layer underneath. I guess I was more so trying to see if a topper is extending the life and protection of a base LSP(in this case a sealant) or if a sealant with no toppers or car wash based enhancers is performing for up to 6 months.

 

[JustJesus]

This could maybe be a long term test to to see if a 2nd sealant helps a first one last longer. I tend to think if you're going to apply a spray every 2-3 weeks it doesn't matter much.

A good long term test! I'm not sure if testing "performance" will really be shown by just water beading, or sheeting. Add to the sealant a rinseless or whatever, that leaves something behind, and you can very well be seeing the effects of the LSP, not the sealant (or underlying) product.

What about a long term test that looks for not just beading and sheeting? Something that can also track UV protection, oxidation (prevention), protection against bird droppings, etc.?

 

[JustJesus]

Probably need to test all the best spray waxes
and QDs under similar conditions.

I had been debating doing this. I have, maybe 6-7, spray waxes I was going to mess with. But ALL of them? Or just the best of them?

Maybe some of the most popular?

It's something I still think about, but I have so much on my plate right now, not sure I can do it at this time.