Sealant vs Wax

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jwc7

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Can someone please give me the "Cliff's Notes" version of why sealant over wax, or wax over sealant? What are the relative advantages/disadvantages of each?
 
Regarding layering one over the other... It's a matter of the bonding abilities. I'm no chemist, nor do I play one on tv, but my understanding is that sealant cures to a surface structure in a way that will allow wax to bond to it. But it doesn't work the other way. Wax won't allow sealant (or most other detailing products) to bond to it properly. You'll either end up removing the wax during the process and/or producing a really blotchy covering.
 
Wax is made of natural carnuba. Sealant is like wax but man made. It's pretty much syntetic wax. Sealant last longer than wax.
 
I'll also add: Depending on the product, there is also a difference in the appearance created by the product. Waxes will tend to have a deeper, more wet surface appearance, while sealants tend to have a more glassy/candy coated look. HOWEVER, that is a rather broad, high-level answer to the question. There are plenty of exceptions.

Something also to keep in mind is what is actually in the product. There are plenty of products labeled as wax which are actually sealants, and to further confuse things are the hybrids which have varying levels of wax and synthetic ingredients mixed together.
 
Some truths:

1. "Wax" really doesn't mean a lot. Lots of people sell "wax" - that contains no organic wax - like Megs and Collinite.

2. For AG purposes, it's usually assumed something called "wax" has at least a trace amount of organic wax in it.

3. Nobody's every proved you can "layer" anything over anything. So, saying wax over sealant is theoretical at best.

4. Nobody's ever shown the act layering LSPs makes either LSP last longer.
 
Mr jwc7,


'Wax' in the context of your query being natural waxes provide a warm glow and depth to the paint system however longevity is fairly brief ( measured in weeks at most ).

'Sealants' in this context rather then being the general sealant ( ie. anything applied to the paint surface to protect it from environmental degradation ) but rather synthetically engineered sealants can provide upwards of 8 months of protection from physical contaminants and also increased protection from paint fade caused by UV rays.

Natural waxes seem to accumulate dust more readily than synthetic sealants. Synthetic sealants also provide a significantly decreased requirement in regards to paint system maintenance, dust/dirt, mud, bugs, grime, bird bombs etc. all are more easily removed.

Synthetics have been stated to sometimes provide a more 'plastic' appearance rather than the deep warm look of natural wax.


Steve
 
swanicyouth said:
Some truths:

1. "Wax" really doesn't mean a lot. Lots of people sell "wax" - that contains no organic wax - like Megs and Collinite.

2. For AG purposes, it's usually assumed something called "wax" has at least a trace amount of organic wax in it.

3. Nobody's every proved you can "layer" anything over anything. So, saying wax over sealant is theoretical at best.

4. Nobody's ever shown the act layering LSPs makes either LSP last longer.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with everything you said here. But to the OP, BrettS4, RangerDetails and Desertnate hit the nail on the head. I prefer to apply sealant and then layer with a wax. So I will go with my "theoretical" application and be satisfied with that. Beuty is in the eye of the beholder...so to speak.
 
swanicyouth said:
Some truths:

1. "Wax" really doesn't mean a lot. Lots of people sell "wax" - that contains no organic wax - like Megs and Collinite.

2. For AG purposes, it's usually assumed something called "wax" has at least a trace amount of organic wax in it.

3. Nobody's every proved you can "layer" anything over anything. So, saying wax over sealant is theoretical at best.

4. Nobody's ever shown the act layering LSPs makes either LSP last longer.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with 3 and 4. From my experience:

I can layer wax over another type of LSP and you can feel with your hands that the wax is on the surface for days/weeks it's that so that's proof enough to me. There's also a post I came across a while back about a guy using silicon wafer's and reflectometry/ellipsometry to measure the thickness of layered vs non-layered LSPs and to find the point you start to get deminishing returns. He also tested diffrent application techniques to demonstate which technique left the most protection behind (not sure if I can link but it's easily found in google).


You can definitely layer Klasse Sealant Glaze for more durability but I have not noticed any improvement with other LSP (I layer other LSP mostly to ensure coverage and to refresh the LSP properties).
 
Always apply wax over sealant (not the other way around).

Sealants typically last longer and give a glossy silicone look

Waxes typically don't last as long as sealants and give a warm show car shine that looks wet

Disclaimer: I've seen sealants that look like waxes and waxes that look like sealants, so YMWV (your mileage will vary) depending on the products actually chemistry...
 
Yes I forgot to mention that I also always top the sealant with wax.

Basically it is:
Wax - top layer
Sealant - Middle layer
Glaze - bottom layer
 
swanicyouth said:
Some truths:

1. "Wax" really doesn't mean a lot. Lots of people sell "wax" - that contains no organic wax - like Megs and Collinite.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the Meg's products, but the product information at Collinites' web site discuss carnauba content for both 476 and 915. Isn't carnauba an organic product?
 
•IMO:
-There are plenty of "pros and cons",
that can be pointed to, whenever any
Waxes vs. Sealants discussions arise.

-However...
Shouldn't the main point be:
"to not ever go without protection
for your vehicles' paintwork"?



Bob
 
4u2nvinmtl said:
I have to disagree with 3 and 4. From my experience:

I can layer wax over another type of LSP and you can feel with your hands that the wax is on the surface for days/weeks it's that so that's proof enough to me. There's also a post I came across a while back about a guy using silicon wafer's and reflectometry/ellipsometry to measure the thickness of layered vs non-layered LSPs and to find the point you start to get deminishing returns. He also tested diffrent application techniques to demonstate which technique left the most protection behind (not sure if I can link but it's easily found in google).


You can definitely layer Klasse Sealant Glaze for more durability but I have not noticed any improvement with other LSP (I layer other LSP mostly to ensure coverage and to refresh the LSP properties).
Click to expand...

I'm a little disappointed your winter LSP faceoff didn't include, the spectrometry and ellipsiometry of all your products used:) I did buy some FK 1000p based off your results.

I agree about the feel of wax on top of sealant. I could feel my Meguiar's gold class carnauba over top my BFWD sealant.
 
Kamakaz1961 said:
Unfortunately, I have to disagree with everything you said here. But to the OP, BrettS4, RangerDetails and Desertnate hit the nail on the head. I prefer to apply sealant and then layer with a wax. So I will go with my "theoretical" application and be satisfied with that. Beuty is in the eye of the beholder...so to speak.
Click to expand...

Why do you disagree? What did I say that was not accurate?

Desertnate said:
I'm not sure about the Meg's products, but the product information at Collinites' web site discuss carnauba content for both 476 and 915. Isn't carnauba an organic product?
Click to expand...

Collinite sells products that contain "wax" in the name that don't contain organic wax. They also sell ones that do. Ditto Megs. My point why something called a "wax" (the word wax in the product name) doesn't mean much, if anything.

4u2nvinmtl said:
I have to disagree with 3 and 4. From my experience:

I can layer wax over another type of LSP and you can feel with your hands that the wax is on the surface for days/weeks it's that so that's proof enough to me. There's also a post I came across a while back about a guy using silicon wafer's and reflectometry/ellipsometry to measure the thickness of layered vs non-layered LSPs and to find the point you start to get deminishing returns. He also tested diffrent application techniques to demonstate which technique left the most protection behind (not sure if I can link but it's easily found in google).


You can definitely layer Klasse Sealant Glaze for more durability but I have not noticed any improvement with other LSP (I layer other LSP mostly to ensure coverage and to refresh the LSP properties).
Click to expand...

Of course you can apply a sealant, then a wax - and feel the wax. Can you or anyone else prove the solvents that make carnauba wax useable in the "wax product" aren't removing the sealant?

I know about dude and his silicon wafers. All he proved is applying more wax leads to more wax on a surface - which is common sense to me. He did not prove subsequent layering of multiple type products produces distinct layers. IMHO, it likely just forms one mixed emulsified layer of similar thickness - regardless of how many products or layers are applied.
 
swanicyouth said:
Why do you disagree? What did I say that was not accurate?



Collinite sells products that contain "wax" in the name that don't contain organic wax. They also sell ones that do. Ditto Megs. My point why something called a "wax" (the word wax in the product name) doesn't mean much, if anything.



Of course you can apply a sealant, then a wax - and feel the wax. Can you or anyone else prove the solvents that make carnauba wax useable in the "wax product" aren't removing the sealant?

I know about dude and his silicon wafers. All he proved is applying more wax leads to more wax on a surface - which is common sense to me. He did not prove subsequent layering of multiple type products produces distinct layers. IMHO, it likely just forms one mixed emulsified layer of similar thickness - regardless of how many products or layers are applied.
Click to expand...

I agree. I tried a bunch of different waxes over WGDGPS on different panels and saw NO difference at all. Even asked the wife and she couldn't tell any difference.

I do notice a slight dropping off of shine after about 2 months and top it with a wax but not sure if I'm removing the sealant or not.
 
RangerDetails said:
Yes I forgot to mention that I also always top the sealant with wax.

Basically it is:
Wax - top layer
Sealant - Middle layer
Glaze - bottom layer
Click to expand...

^^ this. It's my routine and the car loves it, I love it and I get a ton of compliments on how DEEP and Glossy the paint looks. My car is Brilliant Black aka Pure Black, no flake and it's like a deep glossy black mirror.
 
Since Collinite markets their 845 as a wax and will last up to 5 months, is that complete bull$hit or good info? Also, does the Collinite shine look warm like a typical wax or glossy like a sealant?
 
2011 Kona Blue said:
Since Collinite markets their 845 as a wax and will last up to 5 months, is that complete bull$hit or good info? Also, does the Collinite shine look warm like a typical wax or glossy like a sealant?
Click to expand...

absolutely does last and last. It's my go-to in the winter months here in Ohio. Shines very well too. Click on my signature. I still feel 915 is a warmer wax but you'd be splitting hairs in a side by side.
 
I recall a few years back a European auto show team of judges testing waxes in the $1000-$10,000 range. The most exotic waxes on earth. As a joke so to speak, they also threw in Collinte 915 into the test. Five judges were given the task of ranking these waxes on black paint. The waxes were not labeled or revealed until the end. 915 finished third to everyone's amazement.
 
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