Sealants that don't bead?

conman1395

conman1395

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Or bead well I guess. A whole bunch of little beads can be bad for water spotting, and a sealant which is hydrophobic and releases dirt better is more important to me. I recall someone saying Meguiars had a wax/sealant that was made like this, but are there others too?
 
Might want to try Sonax Polymer Net Shield.
 
JHL88 said:
Might want to try Sonax Polymer Net Shield.
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Yes, if you want a million super tiny beads with incredibly high contact angle

The photos I have seen of SPNS are the antitheses of sheeting
 
conman1395 said:
Or bead well I guess. A whole bunch of little beads can be bad for water spotting, and a sealant which is hydrophobic and releases dirt better is more important to me. I recall someone saying Meguiars had a wax/sealant that was made like this, but are there others too?
Click to expand...

I believe that the more hydrophobic sealants all have lots of small beads

I have seen a car with Opti-Coat 2.0 on it sheet water very well without beading. The trade-off was that the paint didn't look (to me) like it was super glossy

I like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant. It lasts 6 months, easy to apply and remove, looks great and seems to resist permanent water spotting
 
Chemical Guys Second Skin 6. From what I've read, you won't see a single bead, but your car will be kept cleaner. However, I have never had a water spot issue with a beading sealant because rain is typically pretty free of minerals.
 
I live on the Wet Coast, where:
  • the winter is mild and wet, soggy, misty, soaking, damp and moist - oops I forgot wet - did I say it's wet?
  • and there are only two seasons in the year: July and winter.
Get my drift? ;) I've had no water spotting on the only 3 sealants I've ever tried and used: WDGPS 3.0, Opti-Seal and Klasse AIO. I don't even dry my vehicles after it rains - too much hassle.
 
Rsurfer said:
Who dries their cars after a rain? Maybe after a wash!
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After a rain I spray it well with a Rinseless Wash and wipe dry, that's only if my car was just washed and still clean.

I applied the Wolfgang Glossy Paint Sealant to my new car which is my go to sealant, however on my last wash there were water spots on the paint that didn't come off so easy being I went three weeks without washing it because I was busy,I used some D151 to remove the stubborn spots.
Crazy beading
 
conman1395 said:
Or bead well I guess. A whole bunch of little beads can be bad for water spotting, and a sealant which is hydrophobic and releases dirt better is more important to me. I recall someone saying Meguiars had a wax/sealant that was made like this, but are there others too?
Click to expand...

Water-spotting has multiple variables. How long the water sits on the paint, what pollutants are in the condensed air/rain, and how resistant the LSP is to water-spotting. As for dirt release, there are LSP's who do this better than others.

JHL88 said:
Might want to try Sonax Polymer Net Shield.
Click to expand...

^This @ the OP. Water behavior on PNS is very unique. It beads incredibly well, but it also sheds dirt better than anything I've tried to-date. I've also never experienced water-spotting with it. I just put some on my Camry on Sat. I had a fair amount of moisture on my car this morning and by the time I got to work the car was bone dry. That's what you want from a LSP.

allenk4 said:
Yes, if you want a million super tiny beads with incredibly high contact angle

The photos I have seen of SPNS are the antitheses of sheeting
Click to expand...

My understanding is that "sheeting" results from large quantities of water being applied to paint in a relatively short period of time. The larger quantity spread over an area (which has a higher weight) causes more tension on the paint surface, resulting in the sheeting effect. Very small drops of water can't technically "sheet" according to my experience--especially if they are on a horizontal surface.

Check out my post http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/43346-post-your-beading-shots-45.html#post1134287 and EVOlved's post http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/43346-post-your-beading-shots-48.html#post1175188. Compared to Colli 845 (which I also love), there is more "dry space" in between the water droplets with PNS. EVOlved's post shows how PNS makes water bead in large drops as well.
 
I'll have to give Sonax PNS a try. I've seen so much talk about it that I've been wanting to try it anyway. On one of Larry Kosila's podcasts with Jason Rose they talked about how a bunch of tiny water beads can act as little magnifying glasses. Whether or not this is true I don't really know, but this is why I'm asking this. Any input from you guys about the "magnifying beads" is also appreciated.
 
conman1395 said:
I'll have to give Sonax PNS a try. I've seen so much talk about it that I've been wanting to try it anyway. On one of Larry Kosila's podcasts with Jason Rose they talked about how a bunch of tiny water beads can act as little magnifying glasses. Whether or not this is true I don't really know, but this is why I'm asking this. Any input from you guys about the "magnifying beads" is also appreciated.
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I listened to that podcast too. Excellent, practical information. The guys on the Megs site recommended Ultimate Wax to me.
 
conman1395 said:
I'll a bunch of tiny water beads can act as little magnifying glasses.
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This is true--I learned about it in high school chem or biology. We were discussing how it's not better to walk around the beach/pool with water all over you in order to prevent sunburn--when it can do the reverse. The difference is that auto paint isn't the same as skin. You're going to get water on your car either way so I wouldn't be too worried :-)
 
CDot said:
My understanding is that "sheeting" results from large quantities of water being applied to paint in a relatively short period of time. The larger quantity spread over an area (which has a higher weight) causes more tension on the paint surface, resulting in the sheeting effect. Very small drops of water can't technically "sheet" according to my experience--especially if they are on a horizontal surface.
Click to expand...

I believe "sheeting" can be created by large quantities of water being applied via laminar flow (sheeting method). If a product claims to "sheet water", I don't believe that claim should be conditional on how the water gets on the surface of the quantity if water applied.

In my experience, I see sheeting when either there is no LSP present, or there is something interfering with the hydrophobic characteristics of the LSP. These interlopers' can include a dirty surface or surfactants left on the paint by cleaning products (Dawn, APC, etc.)


I would gladly trade beading for sheeting, I just have not seen a product that sheets and has the visual appeal to go along with it.

I am willing to try anything, though
 
allenk4 said:
Yes, if you want a million super tiny beads with incredibly high contact angle

The photos I have seen of SPNS are the antitheses of sheeting
Click to expand...

Yes, but its also sheets water very well.
 
Rsurfer said:
Who dries their cars after a rain? Maybe after a wash!
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God I do! :laughing:
Then again.... my G35 is a 2006, has 33,800 miles on it and has been in a real rain driving situation something like 3 times and just passing showers probably half a dozen more.

Once when it was just a few months old we rented a house and boat on Lake Lanier for a week in 2006 that was advertised with a garage. Took 2 vehicles up there so we could go drive in the mountains some during the week. Got up there and the garage was locked!

IT RAINED EVERY FREAKING DAY!!!!!!!!!! :( (So I didn't drive it at all.)

Instead I dried it off a lot, a LOT, a WHOLE LOT!
Last day we packed to come home and my daughter and I said "screw it" and went to the mountains anyhow. CarMomma and the boy came home and we showed up after midnight. :laughing:

The other rain situations were when we went somewhere and happened to get caught in the rain (usually coming home).

HateSwirls said:
After a rain I spray it well with a Rinseless Wash and wipe dry, that's only if my car was just washed and still clean.

I applied the Wolfgang Glossy Paint Sealant to my new car which is my go to sealant, however on my last wash there were water spots on the paint that didn't come off so easy being I went three weeks without washing it because I was busy,I used some D151 to remove the stubborn spots.
Crazy beading
Click to expand...

:iagree: :dblthumb2: Big freaking time! :dblthumb2::iagree:

You know Kevin, I have both WGDGPS and BFCS (WOWA versions). I had multiple layers of one (probably both) on my lil' red car when we went to St. Augustine in May, even added 2 extra layers of BFCS in the days before we left. Then the second night we were there the sprinklers went off on all our cars (even though they were all covered by a long drive through garage on the top and right sides). The water spots were horrendous!!!!!!! I'm saying they were not bad, they were friggin HORRIBLE! Etching like I've never seen! Down my LR quarter panel at the back of the rear glass where the water ran down the side, to just in front of the rear wheel gravel ppf film was a solid raised white line that I couldn't even remove with my fingernail. :eek:

Now anything will be in trouble with St. Augustine well water, but this was worse than it surely should have been. It didn't sit there for but a few hours even, as I caught it before breakfast. Considering it was almost as bad on the vertical as horizontal surfaces it really dampened my enthusiasm for both of these sealants! Relegated them to jambs and such. :dunno: Back to WOWO sealants for me. ;)
 
allenk4 said:
I would gladly trade beading for sheeting, I just have not seen a product that sheets and has the visual appeal to go along with it.

I am willing to try anything, though
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It's that visual appeal, that Mr. Rose touched on during the podcast. He cited that as the reason for Megs not yet offering to a coating in the states.
 
allenk4 said:
I believe "sheeting" can be created by large quantities of water being applied via laminar flow (sheeting method). If a product claims to "sheet water", I don't believe that claim should be conditional on how the water gets on the surface of the quantity if water applied.
Click to expand...

I think that's a good point, but can't necessarily be applied across the board. Sheeting is as much how you introduce water (and the amount of it) to the surface as much as the behavior of the water itself. in my mind:

1. Water doesn't "splash" unless it makes contact with a surface at a high velocity or it's displaced by an object making contact at high velocity.
2. Water doesn't "flow" unless it's on to a sloping surface and taking the path of least resistance downhill.
3. Water doesn't "pool" unless it's placed or resides in a basin-like environment.
 
In detailing terminology, when you break down to the science, beading and sheeting are the same effect. Both are caused by the surface being hydrophobic. A finish which beads is more hydrophobic than one which sheets. In practice, many strongly hydrophobic sealants will diminish and become less so (and thus 'sheet' better) as they age.

Now, as I have mentioned before, the detailing and science tend to diverge. From a more scientific perspective, I would suggest that a hydrophobic finish will bead (i.e. a droplet forms when placed on the surface) whereas a hydrophillic finish will sheet (it will form a sheet, not a drop). The trouble comes because the scientific 'sheet' is a sheet which sticks to the surface. The detailing 'sheet' is a sheet which does NOT stick to the surface and it is in fact only a sheet because of the bulk nature (i.e. you are using lots of water, not just a small amount). In reality, the hydrophobic finish is what I would really want. The water sticks to the surface and can then get 'under' the dirt - it gives self cleaning. Hydrophobic finishes are absolutely the opposite, they actually tend to be very hard to clean because they are very hard to wet (which is the fundamental principle in water based cleaning), they are just harder to dirty. Of course this only goes so far and, once dirty, they are absolutely certainly going to be harder to clean than hydrophillic surfaces. That said, I am not aware of a genuinely hydrophillic sealant or finish. There are some who claim it, but they generally are demonstrating their lack of knowledge because their products 'sheets' as a detailer expects, so it is not hydrophillic at all, just a bit hydrophobic.
 
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