Seeking Advice on 28 year old car

[readthebook]

Hi. First time poster with some basic knowledge from reading here and r/autodetailing on Reddit over the years. I’ve been hand washing my cars forever but have only really recently gotten into wanting to do anything more in depth beyond your basic wash/clay (if needed)/wax and interior vacuum/dust/fingerprint removal. I have access to a Porter Cable 7424 (non-xp model).


The “Why” behind my post:


My wife and I picked up a 1990 VW Cabriolet about 10 months ago. The car lived its life in San Francisco prior to us getting it. White top on white leather on alpine white paint. It’s got 37k original miles and somehow has needed very minimal overall work though it sat for a long time. The interior and rubbers/plastics are in remarkable condition and I have cleaned/conditioned leather with Lexol then the rest of the interior with APC and protected everything with 303 or Gummi-pflege where applicable. The overall paint is another story and my wife would prefer to fix it up rather than let the patina be as is due to the fact that someone attempted a minor garage paint repair.


To my knowledge the Alpine White paint is single stage except on the bumpers and passenger door, which was repainted at some point based on conversations with several body shops as I’ve gone to get quotes on getting the door repaired. Even with its low miles, there is not a lot of history on the car and I can’t see when it was repaired or what happened though a couple of shops have said it looks like "very old work".


There is some minor body damage/paint issues:
——Paint——
- Paint feels pretty rough and bumpy like low grit sandpaper when you run your hand over it.
- Paint has some reflectivity/gloss but is definitely oxidized feeling/hazy looking.
- Lots of swirls and decent surface scratches visible under lighting.
- A few minor chips, nothing bad. (considering Dr. Colorchip).
- I have not washed/clayed/waxed the car.
——Body——
- Two parallel 2.5” x 0.35” dents with gouged paint on the passenger door.
- Someone (likely previous owner - we are 3rd) thought it was a good idea to paint over the door and some spots on the bumper with non-matching white paint. It actually looks very lightly brushed on, not sprayed.
- The bumpers are both pretty chewed up in some spots.
- The bumpers have definitely both been resprayed at some point.
- The door in question above has evidence of respray as mentioned.


Questions:
1. Should detailing/paint correction be done before or after the body & paint work we are considering on the doors/bumpers?


2. I have recently read Mike’s guide to rejuvenating single stage with #7 Glaze and get why it appears to work so well. It sounds logical to me and I was thinking of starting there. Since there appears to be a mix of single and two stage paint on the car, is this still a good method? If not, how would you approach it?


3. Are there guides for detailing cars that have combination of paint types like this? Searching is difficult because I mostly get results dealing with # of paint correction stages, not stages of paint.


4. If 2 is still the way to go, what might be some good "after #7 Glaze" product/process recommendations?


5. Having only operated a DA twice, is this something I should even be attempting?


Thanks so much for any guidance the hive mind can provide. Sorry for the long post!

Edit: Gallery - Cabby Paintwork Needed - Album on Imgur

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Sounds like the car is due a paint job. Pictures would help me assess the problem. Just from your description and it was my car in that condition I might just put a coat of cheap cleaner wax on it and just drive it until I could get it painted correctly. I hope I have helped.

 

[readthebook]

Totally spaced on providing a link. Gallery link as been added to bottom of post.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi readthebook,


I downloaded a few of your pictures, resized to 800 pixels wide and uploaded to your free gallery here so I could insert them using a sane image size.

Questions:

1. Should detailing/paint correction be done before or after the body & paint work we are considering on the doors/bumpers?

I can make a case for doing it both before and after.

Before
Do it before so you remove years of dirt stains and reveal the true color so the body shop can get a more accurate color match. White is actually a very hard color to duplicate 100% accurate.

After
The most common place to get paint overspray is ANYTIME you take a car to a body show for anything. Think about... they spray paint, it's in the air, now it's on your car. So correcting AFTER the body work and paint would make sense as you're going to have to do it anyways.

2. I have recently read Mike’s guide to rejuvenating single stage with #7 Glaze and get why it appears to work so well. It sounds logical to me and I was thinking of starting there. Since there appears to be a mix of single and two stage paint on the car, is this still a good method? If not, how would you approach it?

My article on restoring single stage paint is for paint that is visibly oxidized, as chalky. And while "yes" your car and the paint does qualify as antique if we use the normal and accepted rule that any car over 25 years old is considered an antique, the article is really more for solvent-evaporation single stage paints like old school lacquers and enamels, not modern urethanes that are old. But... you can do as you will.

Me? I wash the car, clay it really good, even better do the claying step with a Nanoskin towel during the washing process like I teach in all my classes, and then buff it out using a great one-step cleaner/wax like BLACKFIRE One Step.

3. Are there guides for detailing cars that have combination of paint types like this? Searching is difficult because I mostly get results dealing with # of paint correction stages, not stages of paint.

No guides that I can think of but it's possible I've written something on this topic over the last 16 and simply cannot remember the title of the article.

I have buffed out a lot of cars that have mix and match paint, that is parts are single stage, parts are modern basecoat/clearcoat, the simple and best approach is treat them the same. In the case of you car I'd still hit it with a one step cleaner/wax and probably after that call it good.

4. If 2 is still the way to go, what might be some good "after #7 Glaze" product/process recommendations?

Not really. Again, the #7 product and the process is really more for old schools single stage paints that have oxidized to the point of being chalky AND where preserving the original paint is IMPORTANT to the owner. If you look at my article, the word IMPORTANT is in red text. I made it read because so many people scanned over that sentence instead of reading it and then post opinions that show me the didn't read the word important or the sentence it is in.

Of course if this paint is important to you then after any paint correction go ahead and massage the #7 over and into the single stage panels and then seal with a wax or sealant. You cannot technically use ceramic coatings on paint that has just been treated with an oily polish like #7 as the coating will not bond, so stick with a wax or sealant.

5. Having only operated a DA twice, is this something I should even be attempting?

Sure. You say you have access to a Porter Cable polisher. Click the link below and if the polisher doesn't have a 5" backing plate get one. Then get some simple foam flat pads. While I don't recommend using foam cutting pads to do one steps because on dark colors you can get and then see micro-marring from the pad itself, but in this case, being old white paint you can use the extra cut to get good results from a one-step.

Do get a good one-step cleaner/wax and you will be amazed at the results. The BLACKFIRE product is only available in quarts, which isn't always perfect for enthusiasts, (the BLACKFIRE line is targeted at pro detailers), you can get 3D HD Speed in a 16 ounce bottle and it's a very good one-step cleaner wax too. Either way, that's what I would do, PC/Foam Cutting Pad/Ones step cleaner wax --> after washing and claying.

Click this link, all the info you need is in it. Including a very detailed video showing you how to use a PC. NOTE: Bill Gates and Microsoft Internet Explorer have fell by the wasyside and the video will not show up if using IE.


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


And don't discount the ability of a quality one-step cleaner/wax...


Review: BLACKFIRE One-Step Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips



Hope the above helps.... could have never typed out and displayed the above on Facebook or Reddit, the interface just doesn't work as good as a real forum.

 

[readthebook]

Hi readthebook,

Hope the above helps....

Mike, thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my thread and offering your thoughtful sage advice. Truly appreciate it. I'll be picking up some HD Speed and giving it a go, after reviewing your links of course I'll be sure to update here when I get a chance to get this all squared away.

- RTB

 

[readthebook]

So I had time to at least get it washed and clayed today... or so I thought. Plastic baggie test is still showing me some abriasiveness on the surfaces. It’s much much better (and whiter!) than it was overall, but I’m concerned about using too much pressure with the medium clay. I don’t know that the car has been clayed ever in its life.

Also, curiously, I didn’t seem to be pulling paint into the clay, unless I’m expecting to see more white than I should be, but now I’m wondering if this is actually single stage paint or if I just couldn’t tell because I was using gray colored medium clay.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Also, curiously, I didn’t seem to be pulling paint into the clay, unless I’m expecting to see more white than I should be, but now I’m wondering if this is actually single stage paint or if I just couldn’t tell because I was using gray colored medium clay.

Kind of tricky to test for single stage "white" paint but I share how here,


How to Test for Single Stage or Clear Coat Paint

 

[readthebook]

Finally had time to hit it with the DA this morning. It's tough when you have a two year old! The 3D HDSpeed worked well to remove the light oxidation that was definitely making the paint cloudy. After I clayed the car I had noticed fine tiny rust spots still on the surface (fallout I'm sure), and those are now all gone. It also did well with the light swirling. I have a nice glassy finish on the car at this point.

Now, in removing all of that, what I noticed is that the hood and front quarter panels definitely have a lot more heavy scratches than I could initially see. I suspect while the car was "garaged for a long time and not driven" prior to my ownership, that the owner had stored all manner of crap on the hood. I did not proceed beyond the HDSpeed step at this point as it's at least good enough for me to call it clean and bright and believe that I'm giving the body shop the best shot I can to match the "true" and current paint color.

I'm also not convinced that it's single stage... My pads did not appear to be picking up white paint as I went to town with the DA. This would align with a VWVortex forum member who told me his 1990 was base/clear, and not single stage. That being said, I know there are single stage paint jobs on many of these Cabriolets.

Now for some photos:

Full res here: Cabby After Detail - Album on Imgur

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Good job.

Huge difference in before and after. For the investment it would take to repaint the car, if it were me I would just drive it and enjoy it. If you want to go over the deeper scratches or RIDS

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

Then get a quality aggressive compound and either a microfiber pad or an aggressive foam cutting pad and work the areas a little more. From the pictures, they look fairly deep so I don't think you can completely remove them but you can definitely improve them.

The thing about working any panel more is that a factory clearcoat finish is very thin. All the UV protection for the entire paint job is in the clear layer. The factory UV proction in the clear has a half life of 5 years, this means when the car is 5 years old, have of the UV protection ingredients "in the clear layer" have already decomposed or whatever they do to make them non-functioning. Point being, by compound more and more you are taking paint that is already thin and making it thinner in this will increase the odds for clearcoat failure, especially if the car is exposed to harsh sun and wet weather.

Thus my point on improve but don't try to 100% remove. Just get her shiny and drive and enjoy her.


Here's one of the more educational article I've writtine in the last 24 years for the online car detailing community.


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips



The pictures tell the story...


Thank you for the update.

 

[readthebook]

Thanks Mike. Yeah I'm at the point where I'm going to leave it be and keep it protected with sealant and wax going forward. The car is garaged so I don't need to worry so much about it being out in the elements aside from when we're driving of course.

In my research, I've definitely read how compounding can cut the clear coat and that it really shouldn't be done much over the life of a car unless absolutely needed, so I don't think it's worth it going after these scratches. The clay and HD speed alone gave me a ton of improvement and the wife is happy, and lets face it, that's ultimately what matters

All new suspension getting fitted in the evenings this week as I've noticed the 28 year old strut mounts are toast, I decided it was best to just refresh it, bushings and all, plus new front brakes and lines. Then taking it out to Cars & Coffee at Canepa on Saturday.

Really can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide recommendations and feedback.