Single stage cloudiness

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Rastaral39

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So I'm working on this 1976 Triumph TR6 with original single stage British racing green. I have done the procedure to re-hydrate the paint with #7, rubbed it in well, let it sit overnite and rubbed on some more to remove the original application. Then I compounded (after taking many measurements) with FG 400 and then with Menzerna 3000 polish to refine. Quite a bit of color came back of course, and some areas are quite a bit better than others. This car had a steam pipe break on it and leak and I actually diminished the effects of that a lot, but I still have a good amount of cloudiness in the paint in some areas. I may be able to rub a bit more on these areas but I am a little apprehensive to do so, it's 40 year old paint, I don't know how thick the primer is etc. so far I'm safe, no strikethroughs. Any ideas?
 
When you said a steam pipe broke--was there heat damage to the paint? Or was it mineral spotting?
 
Spotting, no paint damage, only on the hood and that was the part that came out better! Picture is of trunk.
 
I have also done many ss paint rubs before, mostly Porsche which almost always come out really well. Perhaps Triumph is different. Running out of ideas here.
 
Well, you posted in the right place, Mike Phillips is the man to answer this question! I know he's been out of the office for several days so he's likely trying to get caught up but hopefully he'll be around soon.

I know he was working on some old single-stage paint the other day:

Jason_Rose_and_Mike_Phillips.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/98236-presidential-railcar-us-no-1-a.html
 
Are you working by hand or machine?

If by machine, are you keeping your pads clean?
 
Rastaral39 said:
So I'm working on this 1976 Triumph TR6 with original single stage British racing green. I have done the procedure to re-hydrate the paint with #7, rubbed it in well, let it sit overnite and rubbed on some more to remove the original application.

Then I compounded (after taking many measurements) with FG 400 and then with Menzerna 3000 polish to refine.

Quite a bit of color came back of course, and some areas are quite a bit better than others.
Click to expand...

So at least to some level you can call these results success.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40629&d=1454514658




Rastaral39 said:
This car had a steam pipe break on it and leak and I actually diminished the effects of that a lot, but I still have a good amount of cloudiness in the paint in some areas.
Click to expand...

And that's what the pictures shows... a cloudy appearance.

attachment.php





Rastaral39 said:
I may be able to rub a bit more on these areas but I am a little apprehensive to do so, it's 40 year old paint,
Click to expand...

How are you doing the work?

By hand?

By machine?

If by machine, what machine and what pads? It can make a difference. For example, in the pictures shared above with Jason Rose and me working on the single stage paint on the train. We tried cutting with Meguiar's microfiber discs and while we removed the most defects using a fiber pad, (microfiber pads are fiber pads), the pads by themselves left the paint looking dull and hazy.

We switched over to soft yellow foam pads to apply the compound and BOOM the defects were removed and the paint looked clear and glossy.

So pad type and even machine type can be a factor.


Rastaral39 said:
I don't know how thick the primer is etc. so far I'm safe, no strikethroughs. Any ideas?
Click to expand...


Could be as good as you're going to get it. A high quality finishing wax might amp of the clarity a little as might a final application of the #7 Show Car Glaze.

I've owned 6 British sports cars in my life including a 1974 and a 1975 Triumph Spitfire and in my opinion the factory paint on both cars were sub-standard compared to other single stage paints I had worked on in the late 1970's.

In fact my 1974 Spitfire came with an ugly chocolate brown single stage paint and it always looked kind of cloudy even after polishing and waxing.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I've owned 6 British sports cars in my life including a 1974 and a 1975 Triumph Spitfire and in my opinion the factory paint on both cars were sub-standard compared to other single stage paints I had worked on in the late 1970's.
Click to expand...

Wow Mike, I never knew you were a sports car guy at one time! What a fun time that was with TR6's, TR7's, Spitfires, Stags, MGB's, and Fiat 124 Spiders running around. I never had any of those, but I did enjoy seeing them...I feel like I'm leaving one out, though...maybe the Alfa Spyder.
 
Mike and everyone, thanks for coming in. I did, as a last resort, apply more #7 by GG with 4inch orange on low speed, #2, just to work it in and it DID darken the paint some more (noticeably). This car is just whack as far as the paint goes, passenger side is what you would expect, some oxidizing but cleans up nice, drivers side has many hard scratches not removable and just 3 or 4 different paint scenarios on one car and measurements are all in the same ballpark! I've seen a similar situation a 68 Aston Martin that I did a while back, same color. Picture shows darkening line where my finger is. Porsche paint from that era is FAR better for bringing back to life.Thanks Mike, cheers from Naples Fla!
 
Rastaral39 said:
So I'm working on this 1976 Triumph TR6 with original single stage British racing green. I have done the procedure to re-hydrate the paint with #7, rubbed it in well, let it sit overnite and rubbed on some more to remove the original application. Then I compounded (after taking many measurements) with FG 400 and then with Menzerna 3000 polish to refine. Quite a bit of color came back of course, and some areas are quite a bit better than others. This car had a steam pipe break on it and leak and I actually diminished the effects of that a lot, but I still have a good amount of cloudiness in the paint in some areas. I may be able to rub a bit more on these areas but I am a little apprehensive to do so, it's 40 year old paint, I don't know how thick the primer is etc. so far I'm safe, no strikethroughs. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
are you using a da ,sometimes on ss paint with da it mats the finish looking like faded slightly again.or made need more polishing,I had a green Lexus sc 400 ss when I cut the fade with a rotary,then tried to finish down with da it looked horrible I just finished it with a rotary and left spent on hr on the hood alone.rvs are notorious for finishing down gelcoats they don't like heat generated by machine and you get hogs and low spots.
 
Really, it did not matter a whole lot as far as pads/tools as long as I was changing the pads often. The paint was coming of quickly so I had to be careful. After I finished compound/polish to get the oxidation off, I reapplied #7 generously and it darkened the color quite a bit. So really that was the key. The paint itself is really poor quality compared to say German paint of that era of which I have done many with excellent results.
 
GSKR said:
are you using a da ,sometimes on ss paint with da it mats the finish looking like faded slightly
Click to expand...


I've seen this too....

Some single stage paints just don't like dual action polishers or foam pads. The best shine is created by a wool finishing pad on a rotary buffer. The problem is the rotary with any wool pad will tend to leave it's own scratch pattern called holograms.

The holograms may not be visible immediately after buffing and waxing but down the road the will tend to show up in bright sunlight.

So with some single stage paints it's a trade-off. You can go for max shine and clarity and use a wool pad on a rotary and then maintain wax on the surface to mask the holograms or finish with a dual action polisher and accept a little less shine and crispness but not have to worry about holograms making the paint look like it was detailed by a hack detailer.


If you read my boat detailing book I cover the topic of wool pads and foam pads on gel-coats and how gel-coats don't like soft foam pads for the final polishing step but instead gel-coats like wool pads on a rotary or sharp foam pads on a dual action polisher.


The boat for our annual boat detailing class will arrive today and I'll do a test spot to dial in our process before class starts on Saturday morning. At this time my plan is to follow the process described in pages 70 to 82 in the chapter,

Category #4: Severely oxidized and neglected gel-coats


This chapter shows how to tackle severely oxidized boat multiple ways using pretty much every tool known to mankind including how to do a 3-step and even a 4-step process by hand.

Here's one of the processes shared in the book and the one we're going to use this Saturday for the outside of the boat.

  1. Machine sand the boat to remove oxidized gel-coat.
  2. Remove the sanding marks using a rotary buffer.
  3. Polish the gel-coat to a high gloss using an orbital polisher with a foam cutting pad.
  4. Seal the gel-coat using a quartz based coating instead of a traditional wax or sealant.

Before and after pictures will end up here...


Pictures and comments: Marine 31 Boat Detailing Class - February 6th, 2016


:xyxthumbs:
 
Rastaral39 said:
Really, it did not matter a whole lot as far as pads/tools as long as I was changing the pads often. The paint was coming of quickly so I had to be careful.

After I finished compound/polish to get the oxidation off, I reapplied #7 generously and it darkened the color quite a bit. So really that was the key.
Click to expand...


Results look GREAT!

attachment.php



Keep the paint up with frequent applications of the #7 and you can maintain the paint and the shine.



Rastaral39 said:
The paint itself is really poor quality compared to say German paint of that era of which I have done many with excellent results.
Click to expand...

That's my experience with factory British paints from the 1960's and 1970's...


Thanks for sharing this project with our forum.


:)
 
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate your input on this project. I really enjoy a challenge like this as I have faced them before but not like everyday. I actually advised the owner of this TR6 to keep pumping the paint with #7 every so often as it is obvious this is the best treatment for this car of this vintage. I actually told him I had to " confer with one of my colleague's" to confirm my opinion and read him your reply (thanks). He ended up liking the results and realized it is what it is- initial sub standard paint. Ironically, the trend now is toward originality, not necessarily resto's, so value is there for original paint IMHO. Not your average detail fer sure, but worth the experience! That again!!
 
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