Slight Hologramming After Compounding with PC 7424

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'll give the hand working a shot and then follow up with a pass of the orange pad and see how it goes. If they can't be taken out without a rotary I'll just have to live with it for now.

I have an article on how to carefully sand out scratches and then remove your sanding marks with a rotary buffer. It's in my list of articles here,

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips


It's probably kind of extreme for what you're trying to do and not usually practical for daily drivers.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[jlb85]

It doesn't look like "holograming from a water blade" to me. Water blades, even if you were to do it hard, should not leave but a slight marring, which would be correctable with almost anything. If you are using polish and it is not clearing up, my guess it is trailing from the machine/pad/polish combo which is very normal. Use a very light polish and see if it comes off.

It also looks like the panel needs to get wiped off. IPA followed by something like Meg's #34 or Top Inspection (or really any QD should work OK) to see if they improve or change.

And if all else fails, it could also just be from the metallic and pearl in the paint throwing off reflections under certain light. When polishing, try to move in only one direction and see if it remains. Then change the direction 90 degrees and see if it changes again.

When you are trying to correct you will need to inspect very closely (use the Xenon Brinkman). Once the scratches are gone and all you have left is marring, change pad and polish to refine. On some paints you will need to use small incremental steps to achieve perfection. Even M205 is too aggressive for some paints, and will need further refining with something softer like Ultrafina or PO85RD on a blue pad. During this final jeweling on very soft paint you will need to make an effort to keep the pressure light (almost less than machine weight) and slow, and keep it well lubricated. The density of the soft foam and the movement of the machine tends to make the pad deform in shear and not move enough, almost sticking. If this happens, change to a black pad at low speed since the black pad is slightly stiffer and will help to get the movement back to where it should be for jeweling.

 

[agon]

It doesn't look like "holograming from a water blade" to me. Water blades, even if you were to do it hard, should not leave but a slight marring, which would be correctable with almost anything. If you are using polish and it is not clearing up, my guess it is trailing from the machine/pad/polish combo which is very normal. Use a very light polish and see if it comes off.

It also looks like the panel needs to get wiped off. IPA followed by something like Meg's #34 or Top Inspection (or really any QD should work OK) to see if they improve or change.

I cleaned the section I taped off tonight with some denatured alcohol and checked it under my halogens and I could see some light trailing on there so I hit it with M205 on a black pad at a higher speed than I had been running before and it appears to have taken the holograms out. Though I'll have to check tomorrow to be sure as the sun had already gone down. Winter is coming

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Good advice below...

When you are trying to correct you will need to inspect very closely (use the Xenon Brinkman). Once the scratches are gone and all you have left is marring, change pad and polish to refine.

On some paints you will need to use small incremental steps to achieve perfection.

And test and use different combinations of pad and products...

The Graphic Equalizer Analogy to Polishing Paint

Even M205 is too aggressive for some paints, and will need further refining with something softer like Ultrafina or PO85RD on a blue pad.

True and thus the importance of doing a test spot to one small area of the car and dialing in a process that works to your expectations before tackling the entire car.

By doing this, you guaranteed that the end-results will be what you wanted and expected.

During this final jeweling on very soft paint you will need to make an effort to keep the pressure light (almost less than machine weight) and slow, and keep it well lubricated.

I would add that with the initial passes you want some pressure as you want to engage the abrasive with the paint to cut out the defects you're trying to remove but then lessen pressure...

The density of the soft foam and the movement of the machine tends to make the pad deform in shear and not move enough, almost sticking.

It's like when you move your hand to move the polisher the polisher moves but the pad wants to lag behind, kind of gushy.

Nice tips and techniques...


:xyxthumbs:

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

Are you sure that the marks are not different every time you polish and wipe clean? Looks like toweling marks to me, the defects are in long slightly curved lines and in slightly different directions here and there (not what machine induced marring looks like). When you wiped the area to remove excess polish, did you wipe front to back? Looks like it, and it left some marring behind.

I think that you simply need to work the polish longer, and maybe adjust the amount of polish you use. When your finished with a section pass the remaining polish should be like a thin transparent film, there should not be a thick layer, globs or smudges of leftover polish. A non-diminishing polish (like 105) is still able to do some cutting, even after polishing out the section, so when you wipe it off, it does what it's supposed to... cut into the paint. So a wipe in one direction leaves marring like your seeing. I'm surprised that 205/white didn't remove the marring, did you work 205 until it almost disappears?

I had some problems with toweling marks on soft paint when I was first learning to polish, I even resorted to just washing the panel to remove leftover polish. Then I figured out my errors.

Also, it could be your towels fault.

:xyxthumbs:

 

[agon]

I think that you simply need to work the polish longer, and maybe adjust the amount of polish you use. When your finished with a section pass the remaining polish should be like a thin transparent film, there should not be a thick layer, globs or smudges of leftover polish. A non-diminishing polish (like 105) is still able to do some cutting, even after polishing out the section, so when you wipe it off, it does what it's supposed to... cut into the paint. So a wipe in one direction leaves marring like your seeing. I'm surprised that 205/white didn't remove the marring, did you work 205 until it almost disappears?

I had some problems with toweling marks on soft paint when I was first learning to polish, I even resorted to just washing the panel to remove leftover polish. Then I figured out my errors.

Also, it could be your towels fault.

:xyxthumbs:

Yeah, I usually work the 205 until I can barely tell it's on there, usually it starts dusting a little bit before I finish working it. Last night I reworked the hood with 205 and the white pad making sure that I cleaned well after every pass. I'm pretty certain I was able to remove all of the fine scratches on there, but my garage is an apartment garage so I don't have the best lighting ever. I'll check it again tonight before the sun goes down so I really tell.

That said, last night I was trying to be extra sure about preventing the toweling/residue marks on the hood so I was using a new towel every time I wiped off a section. How often should I be switching to a new towel? Previously I had just been doing one, or two if it was small, body panels before getting a new towel.

Thanks for all the help from everyone.

 

[loudog2]

Did you try to re-wash it? Are you wiping off all the polish well? I have gotten that sometimes. The first time (a while ago) I panicked thinking I mess it up. But after washing it, it was gone. I figured out that I wasn't removing all the polish during the IPA wipedown. In some sections of the wipe it was gone. This gave it a look of a holagram.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Yeah, I usually work the 205 until I can barely tell it's on there, usually it starts dusting a little bit before I finish working it.

From this thread,

Show Car Garage Video: How-To do a "Section Pass" when Machine Polishing with a DA Polisher

Wet buffing technique
Most compounds and polishes should be used so that there is enough product on the surface to maintain a wet film while the product is being worked. The wetness of the product is lubricating the paint as the abrasives abrade the paint and cushion or buffer the abrading action so the abrasives don’t simply scour the finish leaving behind swirls and scratches.


Dry Buffing Technique - Buffing to a dry buff
There are some products on the market where the manufacture recommends buffing the product until it dries. As the product dries you’ll tend to see some dusting as the product residue becomes a powder and the paint will have a hard, dry shine to it.

Although some manufactures recommend this, it’s important to understand what’s taking place at the surface level as you buff to a dry buff. As the product dries, in essence you are losing the lubricating features of the product and as this happens friction and heat will increase. As friction and heat increases, so does the risk of micro-marring the paint or instilling swirls either by the product residue or the pad material and/or a combination of both.

While we trust that the manufacture knows their products best, when we take a close look at what it means to buff on a delicate surface like an automotive clear coat, it doesn’t make sense to run a buffing pad on top of the paint without some kind of wet film to lubricate the paint at the same time. We always recommend that you follow the manufacturer's recommendations and use your own judgment.

Everyone new to buffing wants to be told some easily identifiable sign that they can use to tell when it's time to stop buffing and it's not that simple, so here's an indicator I've always used and taught to others,

Wet film behind your path-of-travel
As you're making a single pass with the polisher, the paint behind the path of travel of the buffer should have a visible wet film on it. If the paint behind the pad is dry and shiny, you've run out of lubrication and you're dry buffing. Turn the polisher off. Wipe the residue off and inspect using a Swirl Finder Light to make sure you didn't dull or mar the paint, you usually won't cause any harm, but pay attention when your running the polisher and don't buff to a dry buff. If you do, you can quickly re-polish that section by cleaning your pad and adding a little fresh product and making a few new section passes.

But if you're system is working for you then that's all that's important.

 

[agon]

I do model my technique after your video. But since it is fall here and the humidity is low the product tends to dry a bit on the edges of the pad so I still see the film on the surface of the vehicle, and when I'm finished working the product the film is still slightly damp.

If I run my finger tip over a small part it will pick up residue, so it's not dry on the surface. But I've also noticed that there is more dusting with 205, and especially 105, than with the Megs Ultimate Compound.

 

[agon]

Did you try to re-wash it? Are you wiping off all the polish well? I have gotten that sometimes. The first time (a while ago) I panicked thinking I mess it up. But after washing it, it was gone. I figured out that I wasn't removing all the polish during the IPA wipedown. In some sections of the wipe it was gone. This gave it a look of a holagram.

I'll see what it looks like tonight, and if it still has that residue look after I use IPA on it, I'll wash it. Thanks for the suggestion.