So how much oxidation can Megs 105 take off exactly?

Silverstone

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I'm doing a 97 land cruiser in fairly good condition I guess, lots of swirls, but the hood is a whole other story. It almost looks like flat paint thats extremely dull, especially over the straight six engine where I guess heat contributed to the problem. Like a two foot wide stripe down the center of the hood. The rest isn't much better. I hit the not so bad side of the hood with 105 and an LC orange pad which barely dented it. It got scratches off but it's no less dull. It looks like flat paint. I do have a yellow pad on the way but is this just too much for the 105? If so what would you guys recommend?

I wonder... could the CC have failed at some point and been stripped off? That's kind of what it looks like. I thought it was just badly oxidized but now I'm not so sure.

Help, this is MY new truck!
 
I used m105 and orange pad on my F150 that I thought the paint was dead and no CC left and it worked great. I'm no expert yet but I would think your pad would have turned white if the CC failed or was gone. Maybe your working to big of an area with the amount of oxidation you have. Try a smaller work area...slow passes...and see what happens.
 
No one simply strips off the clear coat....I'm wondering if your 97 Land Cruiser is a single stage paint vs the color / clear coat commonly found today?

The only way to tell for sure is by putting a little compound on a pad or cloth and rub an area. If the cloth or pad starts to turn the same color then it's a single stage paint finish...

A yellow foam pad it ideal when using Meguiar's M105 if you're dealing with a very dull or damaged finish...
 
I did a Nissan Titan, same thing you are describing.

I had to use a rotary with purple foamed wool and M105 with a few drops of M101.
 
You might want to try wet sanding followed by an MF pad if you are using a DA. If it is cc failure, you have nothing to lose.
 
No one simply strips off the clear coat....I'm wondering if your 97 Land Cruiser is a single stage paint vs the color / clear coat commonly found today?

The only way to tell for sure is by putting a little compound on a pad or cloth and rub an area. If the cloth or pad starts to turn the same color then it's a single stage paint finish...

A yellow foam pad it ideal when using Meguiar's M105 if you're dealing with a very dull or damaged finish...

I like Bobby's recommendation, I'll add though....when you do the test to see if you've got single stage paint or not, do it on a section of the paint other than the area that looks like possible clear coat failure. If it is clear coat failure and the clear flaked off of that area over time (and you do the test there in that area) you'll still get the color transfer to the pad because you'd be rubbing it against the base coat paint where the clear used to be.

Do your test on a fender or something.
 
The following is just for reference and directly pertains to the question: So how much oxidation can Megs 105 take off exactly?

In the near future I hope to showcase this complete project on the forum. Though this one picture does show the oxidation that I dealt with on the roof of this trailblazer it in no way gives you any idea of exactly how bad the roof really was. It took 22+ to complete. Aside from some minor blemishes that only a repaint can fix this roof now look spectacular.

To see just a glimps of what M105 can do with wool and a rotary take a look at this thread http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...d-help-black-trashed-trailblazer-project.html and pay particular attention to posts numbers 19 & 20.

In the quoted post below Mr. Phillips is responding to me and he has taken the liberty to post one of my photo's that I sent to him via email.

Here's post 19 from that thread (of my black trailblazer):

Cool, looking forward to the before and after pictures...

Here's your test spot on the roof... looking good!

billspic.jpg







It's pretty straightforward once you wet up a YouTube account. Helps to have a fast Internet connection.


:)


In that photo you can see the light bulb that took quite a bit of M105 with wool pad and a rotary. Where the light is showing it took 3 series of about 4-6 section passes. That area just below the bulb only recieved 2 series of 4-6 section passes. Finally, that white area at the bottom of the photo is as is with no passes, only washed.

If you look closely at the bottom of the ribs you can still some some oxidation that remains.

Here's post 20 from that thread (of my black trailblazer):

Thanks for the tip Mr. Phillips.

Hey, I didn't realize until now that you'd posted that pic I sent via email. Thanks!

I'm having to finish this project out in the driveway and the rain today prevented me from doing any work. Appears to be the same weather for tomorrow. Bummer.

I've managed to get both sides finished in the first compounding stage with the rotary last everning. All of the oxidation and water spotting is removed on all but the back hatch. If I can just get some decent weather and one more compounding stage with my DA this project will be sealed up for the remainder of the winter and I will resume in the spring. I'll then be doing some touch-up on some RIDS and knocking them off ever so carefully. I'm hoping to at least take this SUV somewhere to get some paint measurements until I can purchase a guage on my own. I'd have liked to have gotten measurements before starting, but I didn't. No excuses.

All of the work you see in that photo was done with my cheap rotary on speed I-II, and a Meguiar's W4000 wool pad with M105. I was very careful, and slow, while working around those valleys and hight spots on those ribs adding additional product for lubrication.

Once I removed all of that oxidation with the wool pad and M105, as you'll see in a future photo's in a future right-up, I then used a 3 inch polsihing pad on the rotary with M105 to finish cleaning out the oxidation at the bottom of the ribs. This was teadeous work.

The next step that you'll also see in future photo's, I then used a 6.5" Meguiar's yellowing polishing pad with M205 across the entire roof to ensure zero holograms.


For those reading the bottom portion of the above photo was only washed and clayed. The middle section of the photo, though you can't tell because the light isn't in that location, was two sets of 5 section passes to get it to the point that you see.

The section with the light bulb is a third and final pass with the wool pad where all oxidation had been completely removed at this point and is ready for a M105 polishing pad step to remove holograms.

Not counting washing and claying, I had 22 hours in just the roof. but for those just reading this the above photo is not the final photographs taken. A total of 5 steps before applying opti-seal. It isn't perfect because there is irreparable damage to much of the paint on this SUV. However, the goal was to create shine. In order to do this the only thing that worked in my initial test spot was a wool pad with M105 and the various steps to a polishing pad with M205.

I enjoyed every minute of this tedious work. I didn't enjoy all the up and down trip on the ladders.

The most exciting part of this project is that I was told my a local body shop that the only way to return the bling on this SUV was to repaint it entirely. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when I take it back to them. LOL!!! Repaint it...Bah hum bug!!!

Kudos to TuscaroraDave who helped guide me through much of the process on the roof and on the hood of this project. Without his help none of the results would have been possible. Dave and I shared many photo's via email so that he could get a better idea of what I was dealing with.

I will also note than when I initially started I wasn't getting anwhere with a ribbon of product. I had to apply much more M105 to get any working time at all. Dave suggested more product because what I was working with was so dry...it literally absorbed the first 2 sets of section passes within seconds. However, by the third set of section passes working time was substantially increased. You also have to remember that M105 tends to have a short working cycle...but it does a whole lot of work during that time.

As a comparison I also used 3M Perfect-IT Rubbing Compound, and while it worked well and had a longer working cyle it in no way did the same amount of work in the same amount of time as M105. As I've read numerous times on many forums, M105 cuts hard and fast.

So, when you think about how I've described my experience with 3M Compound as compared to M105 it should be obvious which I prefer. Short cyles or not, M105 is an oxidation killer and my description should shed a little light on just how bad this project was. Even with the short cycles of M105 the project would have taken me much longer with any other products that I had available. The only exceptions that I could see to this would be the now sold M101, M100, and FG400. Put it this way, on the door handles, and using the 3M products, I had to drop all the way down to 3M Super Duty (rocks in a bottle) to remove the scratches...a product which induces its own scratches to remove.

EDIT:

The last thing I will mention is that when I finished the roof and hood on this project my dad's garage looked like a flour factory inside. That is, white dust was everywhere...which is to be expected anyway from M105, but even moreso because of the extreme oxidation. I had to wash the car that was in the garage, clean the mowers, wipe all the boxes down that was on shelves, then mop the floor twice. Just opening the door going into the house had this dust all over my mom's floors, the kitchen cabinets, etc.

Hope some of this helps someone.
 
Hey guys. It's definitely clear coat. I have gotten better results with 105 and an orange hydro pad and two ful applications. It is getting shiny, but the worst parts still look kind of dull. Almost like orange peel but much smaller "bumps". Like it's no longer smooth although it feels smooth. I'd say it's 70% better, but still not quite acceptable compared to the other parts of the car. I have a regular wool pad, would that cut better than the other pads I've been using?



Very helpful Hoytman. So you generally had to do three full applications?

I think the 105 was drying out half way through. I've noticed that it did better in some areas than others. Maybe I'll try adding more product. Thanks.















.
 
Yes, but I'm sure someone like Mr. Phillips or TuscaroraDave could have removed that in less time and with less passes than I did. I took my time and worked slow with the rotary, probably around 900-1000rpms with a W4000 twisted wool pad. Three complete rounds on each section of the roof with that combo.

The third round really made a difference in how effortless it was to remove the M105 residue. With just two rounds I could NOT completely remove the M105 by wiping.

I then followed the wool pad combo up with a Meguiar's yellow polishing pad with M105 to ensure most swirls were removed. Finally, a clean Meguiar's polishing pad with M205 as the final knock out punch to finish off the swirls.

I noticed in your opening post that you mentioned clear coat failure. Please, inquire more about that in this thread or someone on this forum who can help you. I am in no way suggesting for you to follow my experience with the black paint above. It is only mentioned/shown as a reference and example to the thread title...how much oxidation the M105/wool combo is capable of removing. Also keep in mind that my paint was so bad that I was willing to try anything without fear of messing up. If it couldn't be fixed by my process, then it would have required repainting anyhow because it was really that bad.
 
No one simply strips off the clear coat....I'm wondering if your 97 Land Cruiser is a single stage paint vs the color / clear coat commonly found today?

The only way to tell for sure is by putting a little compound on a pad or cloth and rub an area. If the cloth or pad starts to turn the same color then it's a single stage paint finish...

A yellow foam pad it ideal when using Meguiar's M105 if you're dealing with a very dull or damaged finish...

:iagree: WITH :whs:

The corner of a terry cloth towel, in a out of the way spot will tell ya'. ;) That being said, seems you've already figured out it's a CC paint.

The yellow pad and 105 or 101 will really help you speed things along. I just had my first chance to work with 101 last weekend and it is AMAZING. :D Just make sure to keep your pad rotation going, slow and smooth arm speed. Of course that's easier said than done with 105 and how it dries out so fast. Where you get literally seconds, maybe a minute with 105 is where you have to measure out a small enough section to get it all covered during the 'working cycle', (before it gums up). You can get multiple section passes with 101 though. And... don't have to add any mineral oil to keep it going. :xyxthumbs:

Glad to see *some* of the results you are looking for are starting to come along. Patience is sometimes the hardest part of the whole deal. ;) OTOH, you should really try the yellow pad. Once you work with it you'll be glad you did. ;)
 
:iagree: WITH :whs:

The corner of a terry cloth towel, in a out of the way spot will tell ya'. ;) That being said, seems you've already figured out it's a CC paint.

The yellow pad and 105 or 101 will really help you speed things along. I just had my first chance to work with 101 last weekend and it is AMAZING. :D Just make sure to keep your pad rotation going, slow and smooth arm speed. Of course that's easier said than done with 105 and how it dries out so fast. Where you get literally seconds, maybe a minute with 105 is where you have to measure out a small enough section to get it all covered during the 'working cycle', (before it gums up). You can get multiple section passes with 101 though. And... don't have to add any mineral oil to keep it going. :xyxthumbs:

Glad to see *some* of the results you are looking for are starting to come along. Patience is sometimes the hardest part of the whole deal. ;) OTOH, you should really try the yellow pad. Once you work with it you'll be glad you did. ;)

m101 is the bomb! Absolutely love it!
 
Cardaddy,
Interesting that you bring up the "gumming up" issue. This is something that happened to me and this paint on this black trailblazer, both on the first and second rounds with it on each section. Seemed like no matter how much product I used it gummed up. At first, because of using too little, it dried out much too fast.

As I used more and more product, because that's what was suggested to me and it also seemed what this terrible paint called for, the drying out issue became a non-issue as I used enough product to make the working cycle longer. Enter the gumming issues on rounds one a two with each section I did. You couldn't wipe it off at this point, you had to use a fingernail if you wanted it off. I simply tried another round (3rd) after spurring the pad (which I did after each round) and found that the M105crete came off on it's own and the product worked much easier this round as well as almost disappeared and wipe off effortlessly. This is how I began to realize that on the first few rounds the oxidation wasn't yet removed.

If you listen, the paint will tell you things. You just have to focus on the task at hand and let it speak to you. That's as good as I can describe it, and how it was for me on this particular paint. I forced myself to learn about it and let the technique, product, and paint talk to me. If it gummed up, the paint wasn't clean. If it wouldn't wipe off effortlessly, the paint wasn't yet clean. You could see this as well because the paint had a much better look to it, as well as a better feel...heck, the machine even sounded like it wasn't laboring and the pad wasn't jumping or grabbing, rather, gliding at this point in the process.

I desribe what I was doing like this. The first two rounds were only to remove oxidation and no swirl removal yet. This is because the wool pad couldn't actually reach good paint yet because of the oxidation. By the third round there was little oxidation left, and that left the rest of the product to work on the swirls and other defects.

I watched Mr. Phillips remove sanding marks on a new Camaro in Evansville, and M105 with a wool pad worked far easier than in my situation as well as wiped off much easier. Then again, this was virtually new paint and only sanding marks needed to be removed, so naturally, not working the product until it dried it wiped of nicely for him.

My situation was just a tad (more like a lot) different than that Camaro. It's going to be different on each vehicle it's used on. That's why test spots are so important. Differences can be small or great that I have seen, just as the two examples above.

My job was so extreme that it required 3/4 of a quart of M105 to complete and I ran out and resorted to using some 3M Compound on the rear hatch. When spring rolls around I still have a front bumper to compound as well...so I'm still not done with it.

That said, I am interested to try some M101 and M100, but I highly doubt that I'll soon get another black vehicle in as bad of condition as that one was. Even if I do run across another that would require 60+ hours it's going to cost someone a Gold Morgan. (Read as; I aint tacklin' in for less than some serious change. Not one that bad. It was a pain in the rear...and I had to deal with the wife the entire time to boot. LOL!)
 
Oh well I have no 101 and the yellow pad won't be here till Wednesday at the earliest. I've gone over the really bad strip down the center of the hood four times now with both types of orange pad (CCM, Hydro) and it's a lot better but still "fuzzy".

(It's definitely CC paint)







I basically brought it from hazy paint to dull paint and can't get it any farther.

Similar to this image below:











(This is NOT the car I'm working on, just an example)



















IMG_0817_Medium_.JPG
 
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