Step1paint inspection...

[DaveT435]

... As if stock Camaros didn't look cheap enough as they are. Smh.
Camaro, Volt, Cobalt, Sonic, Spark, Malibu, the Impala looking nothing like it once did.. Sometimes I think Chevrolet fails on purpose.
The Dodge Challenger walks all over the Camaro.

Have you seen the 2016 Camaros??? I like the Challengers too. It's a nice looking car. I like the Mustang too for that matter.
Maybe you should look at the 2016 Impala and Malibu also. Very nice looking cars. Since they quit building those two models mainly for fleet customers they've gone through some very dramatic changes.
Oh...and walking all over?? The only Dodge that would win a race against the SS is the Hellcat...and that's only in a straight line...and it would have to be a good driver that knew how to use all that power. SS 0-60 times real life have been running 3.5 to 3.9. 1/4 mile running high 11's low 12's right out of the box.
Then there is the head to head with the BMW M4, that speaks for itself...

 

[DaveT435]

Dave... uhhhhhhh.....

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!!

I mean I've seen some shady practices through the years, but duuuuuaaammm.


(Posted this in another thread last week.)

Look up this book: Making it Right: Why Your Car Payments are Lasting Longer Than Your Factory Paint Job.

There is a preview on Google Books, and even though it's a preview, it has some VERY interesting information. Lots of talk about film thickness, paint suppliers etc. Also there are some KILLER reference links at the end. (The above BASF release was one of them.)

Interesting pages like one from DuPont with status from 2000~2003 on the Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, produced at the Atlanta plant. Out of 981 sampled vehicles, the number that met prime film thickness was 34 or 3.5% and the number that DID NOT meet prime film thickness specifications was 947 or 96.5%. HOLY CRAP!

Same status from other plants as well. At the Dearborn plant, with DuPont paint, from 2000~2001 out of 374 Mustangs, 27% met spec, and 73% failed to meet spec. That was a GOOD one.

Then there was the one for the Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute from 2001~2003 from BASF out of the Kansas City plant, with 508 vehicles where ONLY 1 yes ONE vehicle, a measly .20% met film spec where 99.8% (507 of 508) FAILED!

Talk about work trucks shall we? In Kentucky, where Ford produced the Super Duty, in years 2000, 2002~2004, again with DuPont paint... they sampled 636 trucks and 11 or 1.7% met spec, where 625 or 98.3% failed!

Then in 2003 at the Norfolk plant it wasn't any better, where with DuPont, out of 82 sampled vehicles a grand total of ZERO trucks passed to meet minimum film build specification!

Minivans are your favorite you say? What about the 1998~2004 Ford Windstar, Freestar, and Mercury Monterey? Out of 2095 samples (again with DuPont paint) they managed to get 16 or .80% right, and 2079 or 99.2% WRONG!

It's staggering to think of JUST HOW BAD vehicle manufacturers had gotten by moving to robots to do everything and letting it pass, one by one, till it seems as if walking on water would be easier than only ONE PERCENT of their vehicles being painted correctly!

The book seems to have data through at least 2009, and goes on to talk about reports of various paint failures from literally all makes. From "Paint - No Strength" to "Body Rust", and of course paint peeling, bubbling flaking, chipping, cracking, delaminating, poor adhesion, clear flaking, failing, peeling, you name it. All happening from within WEEKS, to within 1 year, to "Paint Peeled".

All the data is of course not available on Google Books (being as you only get a preview) but its enough to make me want the book. Unfortunately, it's $180 USED, and $239 to $380 new! Cool yes... but me thinks I'll pass.


The thing is... all this stuff above was before they switched to the ultra-thin waterborne bc/cc wet on wet, or even worse... BLENDED bc/cc system. (Basically a glorified single stage paint.) Now we're so far down the road where they save all of 73¢ worth of paint every week by spraying it thinner each and EVERY week till you can see through it and call it "right".

I mean, sure... we can start to overlook that non of the jambs are painted, at least as long as they're e-coated, and TAPED OFF correctly. But THAT... weird overspray of a paint job on a $55,000 supercar killer American hot rod. Jesus....

Just got Papa Fred's Nissan back from the shop getting $7300 worth of work done on it from the wreck he was in the day he went to the hospital.

Two things stood out to me along the lines of non-painted jambs.

One; the left fender jamb is NOW painted. (The right one was taped off just inside the bottom of the hood and the entire jamb e-coated in a primer gray color.)

Two: The whole right side rocker pinch weld is ALSO painted. (The car is silver. It was somehow taped off and satin black from the factory.)

Of course there is a whole list of *other* stuff I found wrong with it, and it's back at the shop now getting them all fixed. Everything from repainting the new front bumper, front fender, and left rear quarter panel, to removing rough edges and overspray, replacing a wheel cover they overlooked.... all the way to PUTTING IN A FENDER CRUSH PIECE at the hinge post that runs the entire height of the fender that they magically managed to leave out!!!!

But the ONE thing that it doesn't suffer from is "too little paint".

That's some good information. Do you have any Dodge numbers??? lol

All the other colors were good. Obviously the program running the robots on this color.

 

[cardaddy]

Have you seen the 2016 Camaros??? I like the Challengers too. It's a nice looking car. I like the Mustang too for that matter.
Maybe you should look at the 2016 Impala and Malibu also. Very nice looking cars. Since they quit building those two models mainly for fleet customers they've gone through some very dramatic changes.
Oh...and walking all over?? The only Dodge that would win a race against the SS is the Hellcat...and that's only in a straight line...and it would have to be a good driver that knew how to use all that power. SS 0-60 times real life have been running 3.5 to 3.9. 1/4 mile running high 11's low 12's right out of the box.
Then there is the head to head with the BMW M4, that speaks for itself...

:iagree:with :whs::dblthumb2:

While not a "Ford" guy (old story for another time) I've preferred the exterior of the Mustangs much more than the 'new' Camaro for years now. That of course has changed a bit with the 2016, which is lower and more sleek (at least it looks that way) than the ones for the last 8 years or so.

The Challenger is a totally different animal than the new Camaro.
It may have been more in the same league with the *old* 'new' Camaro, but not this one... not even close.

As for that head-to-head with the BMW.... heheheheeeeeeeee :laughing:
Remember that it wasn't even a REGULAR one, it was a M friggin' 4.
At what... thirty five GRAND more? That'd be the same thing with the Hellcat I'm sure. Yes, it has a LOT more horses under the hood, but it's a lot more money, and it's not NEAR as easy to drive. As my buddy says about his, "It's fast, but not VIPER fast". (And he has them both.)

Many of the new models from Chevy/GM are on totally new platforms, platforms that are much better handling, riding, and especially accelerating and stopping than the Chevys of yon past. One for instance is the new Acadia/Cadillac XT5 which I can't wait to see!

Wish I had more info Dave on newer vehicles and film thickness, (Dodge would be one, but I suspect MANY of them would be most interesting to say the least). :dunno:

If the writer of that book could dig up that information back then.... you can bet that DuPont, BASF, etc. all have the same data now. Likely it's even more in depth than back then.

So tell me this brother.... knowing what you know now.... your replacement going to be the same color?

 

[DaveT435]

:iagree:with :whs::dblthumb2:

While not a "Ford" guy (old story for another time) I've preferred the exterior of the Mustangs much more than the 'new' Camaro for years now. That of course has changed a bit with the 2016, which is lower and more sleek (at least it looks that way) than the ones for the last 8 years or so.

The Challenger is a totally different animal than the new Camaro.
It may have been more in the same league with the *old* 'new' Camaro, but not this one... not even close.

As for that head-to-head with the BMW.... heheheheeeeeeeee :laughing:
Remember that it wasn't even a REGULAR one, it was a M friggin' 4.
At what... thirty five GRAND more? That'd be the same thing with the Hellcat I'm sure. Yes, it has a LOT more horses under the hood, but it's a lot more money, and it's not NEAR as easy to drive. As my buddy says about his, "It's fast, but not VIPER fast". (And he has them both.)

Many of the new models from Chevy/GM are on totally new platforms, platforms that are much better handling, riding, and especially accelerating and stopping than the Chevys of yon past. One for instance is the new Acadia/Cadillac XT5 which I can't wait to see!

Wish I had more info Dave on newer vehicles and film thickness, (Dodge would be one, but I suspect MANY of them would be most interesting to say the least). :dunno:

If the writer of that book could dig up that information back then.... you can bet that DuPont, BASF, etc. all have the same data now. Likely it's even more in depth than back then.

So tell me this brother.... knowing what you know now.... your replacement going to be the same color?

Yeah, I'm assuming part of the problem is being a three stage paint they wanted to use the absolute least amount of base coat as they could. Ford really started getting their game together a couple years before GM, but GM has really turned it up. I can't really say anything about Dodge, haven't driven any, or even checked any out since I test drove the 2010 before I bought the Camaro.
I love cars. A little partial to Chevrolet, but not a die hard. I drove the Mustang and Challenger before I bought the Camaro. All three nice cars.
Well I definitely know how and where to check for bad paint. My new car was built Wednesday and it is the same color. If the paint is bad I think I'll go back with Nightfall gray which is what I originally ordered. I won't go with regular black. The Mosaic Black hides a lot that you see with regular black.

 

[DaveT435]

:iagree:with :whs::dblthumb2:

While not a "Ford" guy (old story for another time) I've preferred the exterior of the Mustangs much more than the 'new' Camaro for years now. That of course has changed a bit with the 2016, which is lower and more sleek (at least it looks that way) than the ones for the last 8 years or so.

The Challenger is a totally different animal than the new Camaro.
It may have been more in the same league with the *old* 'new' Camaro, but not this one... not even close.

As for that head-to-head with the BMW.... heheheheeeeeeeee :laughing:
Remember that it wasn't even a REGULAR one, it was a M friggin' 4.
At what... thirty five GRAND more? That'd be the same thing with the Hellcat I'm sure. Yes, it has a LOT more horses under the hood, but it's a lot more money, and it's not NEAR as easy to drive. As my buddy says about his, "It's fast, but not VIPER fast". (And he has them both.)

Many of the new models from Chevy/GM are on totally new platforms, platforms that are much better handling, riding, and especially accelerating and stopping than the Chevys of yon past. One for instance is the new Acadia/Cadillac XT5 which I can't wait to see!

Wish I had more info Dave on newer vehicles and film thickness, (Dodge would be one, but I suspect MANY of them would be most interesting to say the least). :dunno:

If the writer of that book could dig up that information back then.... you can bet that DuPont, BASF, etc. all have the same data now. Likely it's even more in depth than back then.

So tell me this brother.... knowing what you know now.... your replacement going to be the same color?

Yeah, I'm assuming part of the problem is being a three stage paint they wanted to use the absolute least amount of base coat as they could. Ford really started getting their game together a couple years before GM, but GM has really turned it up. I can't really say anything about Dodge, haven't driven any, or even checked any out since I test drove the 2010 before I bought the Camaro.
I love cars. A little partial to Chevrolet, but not a die hard. I drove the Mustang and Challenger before I bought the Camaro. All three nice cars.
Well I definitely know how and where to check for bad paint. My new car was built Wednesday and it is the same color. If the paint is bad I think I'll go back with Nightfall gray which is what I originally ordered. I won't go with regular black. The Mosaic Black hides a lot that you see with regular black.

 

[DaveT435]

Happy to report that I got my car replacement car today and the paint on the new car is how it's supposed to be. Have to say Friendly Chevrolet never gave me a hard time about replacing the car. Had to order the car the process was quick and easy. A lot of other people with the same car and same problem are having to deal with fighting with dealers and GM regional guys. I'll have to post pics later.

 

[bill110]

Because its been titled they HAVE to sell it as a used car which means they'll take it in the teeth pretty hard right off the bat.

They will have somebody come in upside down on a trade in, jack the price up to MSRP or better, and make money on both. That's after GM settles with the dealer for a "lemon".

 

[cardaddy]

Off topic for sure here, but 'sorta' along the same topic.

I've been driving a new Acadia from Hennessy for a week now, (loaner) and it's in Ebony Twilight Metallic. Sure seems close to the Mosaic Black Metallic, even has the same paint code.

First day they sent it home with me, OF COURSE I had to wash and (spray) wax it. Next day, I broke out the Nanoskin sponge and did the hood and front fenders! :laughing:

Only had 240 miles on it when I got it, and they told me not to go over 2100. WHAT? Now I want to break out the Megs 151 and just do a quick AIO on at least the front end so that it'll clean better next time.

In all seriousness... since I hit it with Auqawax a couple times now, (and ESPECIALLY after the Nanoskin treatment) not only does the pollen not stick as bad, and rinse easier, but it DRIES easier with a quick blast up the street and back. :laughing:

Based on all the problems with the Camaro's I couldn't wait to try and find thin paint on this thing. I've looked high and low, and the ONLY place that it doesn't have full coverage is where the door hinge meets the hinge post. Even there it's pretty good, just that last ¼" or so in the tight areas where the robots didn't get enough different angles to completely cover it all. But on the jambs, doors, lift gate, hood, even inside the gas door it looks fine. Now it's ROUGH (feels and looks more like mixed base coat with clear) but there is plenty of paint there.

Strange thing how the 'powers that be' can't manage to program the robots to get the Camaro's right, yet the SUV's in other plants (more than one make, more than one size) and the Canyon and Colorado trucks, as well as the full size trucks, all being at different plants... seem to do a relatively good job at it. :dunno:

Me thinks that SOMEBODY in the paint programming department, if not the WHOLE department at the affected plants need to hit the unemployment line!:nomore:

 

[DaveT435]

Off topic for sure here, but 'sorta' along the same topic.

I've been driving a new Acadia from Hennessy for a week now, (loaner) and it's in Ebony Twilight Metallic. Sure seems close to the Mosaic Black Metallic, even has the same paint code.

First day they sent it home with me, OF COURSE I had to wash and (spray) wax it. Next day, I broke out the Nanoskin sponge and did the hood and front fenders! :laughing:

Only had 240 miles on it when I got it, and they told me not to go over 2100. WHAT? Now I want to break out the Megs 151 and just do a quick AIO on at least the front end so that it'll clean better next time.

In all seriousness... since I hit it with Auqawax a couple times now, (and ESPECIALLY after the Nanoskin treatment) not only does the pollen not stick as bad, and rinse easier, but it DRIES easier with a quick blast up the street and back. :laughing:

Based on all the problems with the Camaro's I couldn't wait to try and find thin paint on this thing. I've looked high and low, and the ONLY place that it doesn't have full coverage is where the door hinge meets the hinge post. Even there it's pretty good, just that last ¼" or so in the tight areas where the robots didn't get enough different angles to completely cover it all. But on the jambs, doors, lift gate, hood, even inside the gas door it looks fine. Now it's ROUGH (feels and looks more like mixed base coat with clear) but there is plenty of paint there.

Strange thing how the 'powers that be' can't manage to program the robots to get the Camaro's right, yet the SUV's in other plants (more than one make, more than one size) and the Canyon and Colorado trucks, as well as the full size trucks, all being at different plants... seem to do a relatively good job at it. :dunno:

Me thinks that SOMEBODY in the paint programming department, if not the WHOLE department at the affected plants need to hit the unemployment line!:nomore:

Well thankfully they seem to have the issue taken care of. Between the new model and moving production to a new plant...there are still the real small spots like your talking about. I can live with those. It's the same color, I think that color goes by four or five different names. It may be tweaked just a little.

 

[TTQ B4U]

Oh...and walking all over?? The only Dodge that would win a race against the SS is the Hellcat...and that's only in a straight line...and it would have to be a good driver that knew how to use all that power. SS 0-60 times real life have been running 3.5 to 3.9. 1/4 mile running high 11's low 12's right out of the box.
Then there is the head to head with the BMW M4, that speaks for itself...

^^ this. Chargers and Challengers are pigs. Last fall the best I saw a Scat Pack do was 12.6's at like 113mph. Given their trap speeds they seem to be over-rating their HP Figures. Driver mods were needed to. Lots of torque and skinny tires don't help them either. Interior wise, NO WAY the new Dodges hold a candle to the SS's. Not even the Mustangs. Dodges are way better than they used to be but are a 3rd place winner when it comes to quality.

I LOL when my German Tuxedo showed up on 93 octane on Stock summer tires pulling 1.6 to 1.7 60ft times full runs ran back to back with better times of 11.789 @ 116.98 & [email protected]

Heading back in late April and hoping the E85 blended tune pays off. Feels much stronger. Shooting for 11.5's at 119mph or better. I think we have a couple guys with the 6th Gen SS's running. One I saw line up in NJ last week ran a 12.6 @ 114mph but his 60ft time was a tick under 2.1 Make me love AWD more every day Even more fun on the street as a daily driver.

 

[Eldorado2k]

^^ this. Chargers and Challengers are pigs.

Lol. I really just meant I think they Look better.. Maybe I chose the wrong word

 

[DaveT435]

Here are some pics of the new one, a lot of the same areas. Now some dealers were telling customers who had cars painted just like my first car that their paint was "normal" If it was "normal I don't think you would see this much difference!!

Some of these pics have reflections that kind of resemble the pics with paint missing, believe me this is not the case. Glad GM got the problem fixed. I can finally enjoy my car!!

 

[DaveT435]

GM is half way through a paintshop overhaul around the country. we are doing the mechanical work on 6 of them. Kansas, Flint Michigan, Indy, Bowling Green for the vettes, Arlington, another in Michigan and i believe also one in Mexico.
My cousin has a few year old ats that i clean up for him and that paint is terrible. It has 30k on it and the front end and hood look like it wash sprayed with a bb machine gun.

Hopefully these new facilities will improve the paint quality. They are state of the art but still a few years from being up and running.

I just came across this post. It would have been nice if they would have had this plant done before moving production from Canada.
Don't get me wrong, glad they brought it back into the states, especially Michigan where the jobs are so desperately needed, just would have been ice to have the plant state of the art first.
Now that I have a car with full paint...over ally the paint job is better than on my 2010. Orange peel isn't nearly as bad.

 

[strokinpower]

This is wild. I bought a 2014 F250 platinum tuxedo black used in 2014 with 18k miles on it and had it several months before I noticed in certain sunlight the paint was very thin behind both of the passenger side mirrors. I took it in and they repainted both doors under warranty.

 

[DaveT435]

This is wild. I bought a 2014 F250 platinum tuxedo black used in 2014 with 18k miles on it and had it several months before I noticed in certain sunlight the paint was very thin behind both of the passenger side mirrors. I took it in and they repainted both doors under warranty.

You understand how it's easy to miss then. The sun has to hit it right to see it. Even the hinge areas are harder to see in the bright sun.

 

[strokinpower]

Oh absolutely. I was worried about how I would be able to get the dealership to see it. I took it to them and parked in direct sunlight and he said I don't see anything. I asked if he we could pull it inside and use a bright light and he said sure and it showed up perfectly. He said he had never seen that before. I have now noticed it in a lot of inconspicuous areas like the inside of the doors around the windows which I don't really care about, I mean if it was a new truck then sure I would have complained a lot more. They did a good job imo fixing it. I think that paint is hard to match and the metallic color is slightly off but again it has to be in perfect conditions to notice it and I'm probably the only person that would notice it. I snagged this pic and you can tell.

 

[cardaddy]

Here are some pics of the new one, a lot of the same areas. Now some dealers were telling customers who had cars painted just like my first car that their paint was "normal" If it was "normal I don't think you would see this much difference!!

Some of these pics have reflections that kind of resemble the pics with paint missing, believe me this is not the case. Glad GM got the problem fixed. I can finally enjoy my car!!

Congrats Dave, on finally getting what you PAID for. :dblthumb2:

Yup... that paint looks exactly like this Acadia I'm (STILL) driving. I mean in the jambs and all.

Funny how thick (and rough) it is in those areas yet so nice and slick everywhere else. This one I'm driving has a very good overall paint job on it, very good indeed. Was amazed at how well they'd handled the all to well known GM orange peel. (Well... let's be honest here... ALL manufacturers the last 5 years have gotten out of hand with orange peel truth be told.)

But based on how much paint is in the 'hidden areas' it almost looks like they've come up with a process where they're color sanding them as part of the finishing process. :dunno:

Like I said in the other post, those 'hidden areas' almost look like a blended BC/CC mixture. :dunno:

Either way, there IS paint enough in there to not have to worry about rust-through down the road at least.

Guess I'm figuring out why they told me "try not to go over 2100 miles on the odometer on this loaner" when they let me have it. :laughing: Been resisting the urge to buff it with an AIO just for snits-n-giggles but if this keeps up I might just! I know that Nanoskinnig the front, plus the Aquawax I've put on twice now makes it A LOT EASIER to rinse the yellow blanket of pollen off!

Can't imagine what Hennessy is doing with the lil' Nissan this time around. I mean CRAP, they had it 3 weeks the first time. Now it's been 3 weeks Tuesday (the 22nd) and going on FOUR. Never had a car in the body shop for SEVEN WEEKS before! Oh.. and I used to TOW for a dozen shops and never saw them take that long to fix one before. Seen them take 3~5 weeks to get them INTO THE SHOP. But good Lord this time is longer than when they had to rebuild the entire front end from the core support out... as well as R&R and paint the rear bumper cover!

Guess they took my Detailed Reflection Auto Spa VIF Form that I attached to a 1 page letter, with a FULL PAGE of bullet list repairs needed seriously... huh? :laughing:

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Now some dealers were telling customers who had cars painted just like my first car that their paint was "normal"

Yeah, dealers. Reminds me of some old threads where people would come to a forum with pictures of a swirled/hologrammed black car, where the dealer told them "that's just how black cars are" or some nonsense because they were unable to prep or correct a car properly. Of course I'm sure some of the dealers actually believed that, because every black car they ever had on their lot looked like that (because they are all "prepped" before going out on the lot) and figured they just came that way from the factory.

Sheesh, this already got me in a bad mood this morning.

Glad you got things resolved!

 

[DaveT435]

Congrats Dave, on finally getting what you PAID for. :dblthumb2:

Yup... that paint looks exactly like this Acadia I'm (STILL) driving. I mean in the jambs and all.

Funny how thick (and rough) it is in those areas yet so nice and slick everywhere else. This one I'm driving has a very good overall paint job on it, very good indeed. Was amazed at how well they'd handled the all to well known GM orange peel. (Well... let's be honest here... ALL manufacturers the last 5 years have gotten out of hand with orange peel truth be told.)

But based on how much paint is in the 'hidden areas' it almost looks like they've come up with a process where they're color sanding them as part of the finishing process. :dunno:

Like I said in the other post, those 'hidden areas' almost look like a blended BC/CC mixture. :dunno:

Either way, there IS paint enough in there to not have to worry about rust-through down the road at least.

Guess I'm figuring out why they told me "try not to go over 2100 miles on the odometer on this loaner" when they let me have it. :laughing: Been resisting the urge to buff it with an AIO just for snits-n-giggles but if this keeps up I might just! I know that Nanoskinnig the front, plus the Aquawax I've put on twice now makes it A LOT EASIER to rinse the yellow blanket of pollen off!

Can't imagine what Hennessy is doing with the lil' Nissan this time around. I mean CRAP, they had it 3 weeks the first time. Now it's been 3 weeks Tuesday (the 22nd) and going on FOUR. Never had a car in the body shop for SEVEN WEEKS before! Oh.. and I used to TOW for a dozen shops and never saw them take that long to fix one before. Seen them take 3~5 weeks to get them INTO THE SHOP. But good Lord this time is longer than when they had to rebuild the entire front end from the core support out... as well as R&R and paint the rear bumper cover!

Guess they took my Detailed Reflection Auto Spa VIF Form that I attached to a 1 page letter, with a FULL PAGE of bullet list repairs needed seriously... huh? :laughing:

It's good to know GM is upgrading their paint equipment around the country. The paint on this car is a lot better. As far as orange peel goes they did a much better job on this car then what I've seen in the past.

 

[DaveT435]

Yeah, dealers. Reminds me of some old threads where people would come to a forum with pictures of a swirled/hologrammed black car, where the dealer told them "that's just how black cars are" or some nonsense because they were unable to prep or correct a car properly. Of course I'm sure some of the dealers actually believed that, because every black car they ever had on their lot looked like that (because they are all "prepped" before going out on the lot) and figured they just came that way from the factory.

Sheesh, this already got me in a bad mood this morning.

Glad you got things resolved!

Yep got a quick look at their wash bays, left a little to be desired. I know the dealer didn't touch this car so obviously the factory hit the front bumper cover with rotary. Some pretty good holograms. They'll be gone this week though. A world of difference between this car and the one they had on their lot for a week.