Streaky result...Need help/guidance

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warrior151

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Ok...Got a Cyclo and started to detail my plane (Piper Warrior)...the paint isn't bad but it did have some oxidation so here is what I did

Washed and dried
Used Meigs Heavy Cut Cleaner (so, so result)
3M Rubbing Compound (again not a great result)
Washed again
Meigs 105
Meigs 205
Nuvite PFS Glaze/sealer

The plane is slick but it has streaky swirl marks in the paint...

Should I have done something different? I dont have a great shine and its spoltchy at best. I can see my application marks....

Does the pain absorb wax and sealants? What can I use for heavy oxidation?

Many thanks in advance...I am stumped.

Don
 
Started with the Orange pads (both 3M and Cyclo brand pads)...then moved up to the green with the Meigs and white with the Nuvite PFS.
 
Also how old is the paint also some pictures would also help .
 
I've used wool on the Cyclo for metal polishing, I think that's what I would have gone with for heavy oxidation, what is it, Imron?
 
Without seeing photos, it sounds like you didn't work the products long enough.
 
The paint is 8 years old...no clear coat and the paint was PPG DS epoxy. However it is a thin coat. I kept the plane polished with Zymol but since the plane stays outside it takes a beating and has mild oxidation.
 
The key question has been asked, how old is the paint? It's going to be single stage and should be a pretty hard paint to polish. Can you describe the streaks or even provide pictures? Did you get the polish residue wiped off before you applied your LSP?

*Edit - I see the paint is 8 years old. At this point the paint is ready to be replaced most likely. The streaks could be caused by the old paint soaking up the oils from the polishes. Just a guess.
 
I will definitely post some photos for guidance...

Appreciate the quick feedback all!!

Don
 
Most planes are painted single stage white because the pigment used to create white is titanium dioxide powder and this makes the paint hard and also more resistant to deterioration than other colors/pigments.

It will oxidize however and when it does it becomes chalky and dry and yes it will absorb oils, solvents and other liquids.

When paint is oxidized it's important to really do a thorough job of compounding it for a uniform appearance, otherwise you can see dull spots and shiny spots, places you didn't get all the oxidation off and places where you did get all the oxidation off.


warrior151 said:
Used Megs Heavy Cut Cleaner (so, so result)
Click to expand...

If you're referring to M04, it's an aggressive compound similar to M49, (I think), which is a heavy oxidation remover in the Marine Line. This product is actually pretty good at removing oxidation when used with a rotary buffer, used with a Cyclo you're results would be very dependent upon aggressive foam cutting pads, even wool pads.


warrior151 said:
3M Rubbing Compound (again not a great result)
Click to expand...

This too is a very aggressive compound and if this isn't working any better than the M04 Heavy Cut Compound that starts to form a trend that indicates a problem that might not be related to which compound you use.

Again the type of pad would be a huge factor the the effectiveness of either of the above products.

Just to double check, when you buff on your plane's paint you're seeing white pigment or white paint come off and onto the pad right?

If not that would mean you plane has a clear coat finish but I don't think that's the norm in this industry for production coatings. (Has the plane been re-painted?)


warrior151 said:
Meigs 105
Meigs 205
Click to expand...

The above two products are SMAT products and polish just about any material or coating they're used on so if they're not working, the M04 isn't working and the 3M HDC isn't working, again, this is a trend that points to a problem not related to the abrasive products being used or the manner in which they are applied.




Question: So any areas you buff on buff to a clear, high shine?

For example areas under the plane not exposed to full sun and weather all the time?


One thing I do when I run into a problem is work a smaller section and really work it good, the idea being to see if lots of work to a small area gets you any gains at all. If it doesn't then lots of work to the entire plane isn't going to work either.


One more thing... we're only talking about the Test Spot? You didn't compound the entire plane twice only to find out you're not getting the results you want?



Pictures?


:Picture:
 
warrior151 said:
The paint is 8 years old...no clear coat and the paint was PPG DS epoxy.
Click to expand...

That's going to be some hard paint, especially since it's white. See this article,

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us



warrior151 said:
However it is a thin coat.
Click to expand...

That's never a good thing no matter what you're working on. When it comes to small planes if you buff to aggressively you'll buff all the paint off the edges of the aluminum panels and the rivets.



warrior151 said:
I kept the plane polished with Zymol but since the plane stays outside it takes a beating and has mild oxidation.
Click to expand...


I would be back to trying first to buff a small section and really give it a lot of attention and see if a lot of buffing will remove the oxidation and restore clear, shiny paint.

Try using an aggressive foam or wool pad with the M105, like a 16" by 16" area, that's the size of most microfiber towels laid out flat. Place a tape-line down and only buff on one side, this will make it easier for you to judge your progress, if any...

Also, try rubbing hard and fast with some terry cloth by hand to a small section, change the action of your tool, the tool in this case being your hand and see if you can restore any gloss by hand.

Like I did here when I removed sanding marks by hand...

The below is from...

The Rule of Thumb


Note my hand is blurry because it's moving in back and forth motions at the speed of light....

RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand01.jpg




See how I made the paint clear and glossy? You want to find a way to do the same thing to the oxidized paint...

RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand02.jpg




:)
 
Mike, what an analysis...you are right, my pads clogged and had a lot of white water when I rinsed them and I removed some paint off a couple of rivets...mainly some Cherrymax pull rivets.
I will post some of the photos of the leading edge of the wing I worked on here shortly.
I appreciate all the feedback from the Forum...I am still relatively new to this business....but having fun while I do it!
Don
 
Here are the photos promised...as you see I did the leading edge but you can see the swirls which are almost impossible to remove....the trailing edge of thw ing has not been done yet....
 
Here's one of the pictures inserted instead of attached, you'll find it in your gallery...


oxidizedairplane.jpg



I'm going to guess the pad pattern of residue we see in the bottom right area of the photo is simply product you have not wiped off yet...


It looks like you're removed the oxidation but the gloss and clarity is just not there...

Some paints like to be buffed at a high speed and this could be one of those situations. The PROBLEM is to use a rotary buffer to amp up the gloss and clarity risks burning all the paint off the edges of the metal section panels and the rivets.

One thing you can try is a good one-step cleaner/wax after the compounding and polishing, sometimes you get lucky and from the combination of cleaners abrading and polishing and the wax coating the surface you'll get the gloss and clarity you're looking for although it can be a form of cheating as the results are like make-up on the surface and the dullness 'can' return if not regularly re-applied.


Try something like the XMT 360


Definitely use a polishing pad, (firm foam), on Cyclo and if you have the Mark 5 variable speed run it at the 6 setting.

Gel-coats and old lacquers tend to like high speed polishing to really create a smooth, glossy finish, could be this type of paint reacts like these other coatings.

I'd also try the fast hand polishing and or waxing with a cleaner/wax just to test and see if you can restore gloss and clarity by hand if the only tool you have is the Cyclo. You don't want to do this to the entire plane but testing is a form of troublshooting...

Another option would be to get a DA Polisher like a PC, Griot's or Megs DA Polisher and using a thin, 5.5" foam polishing pad, (not soft finishing pad), buff the paint with a cleaner/wax on the highest speed setting because as long as you maintain pad rotating you're basically doing with a DA what you would do with a rotary buffer.

As for pigment coming off... it's very important to clean your pads often... see these...


Why it's important to clean your pads often...



:)
 
Mike,
Thanks again for the help...I have been pondering an add'l DA. I do have the Mark 5 but after a while upside it will wear you out. I assume when you mention "firm pad" that it will be the green ones? Will be calling AG tomorrow for some supplies....and appreciate the Gallery tip too...
 
In addition to what Mike said, unless they are flush rivets, tape the rivets before you start with a machine. I personally used a cyclo machine on an Saber Jet, and was disappointed with it, it was unpainted of course.
 
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