Suggestions?

B

billbillw

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Hi,
I'm new here. I've always taken pride in my detailing ability, but I've pretty much been a hand applier and didn't do much with deep restoration. Just basic hand polish bad areas and wax/seal. I took up clay barring about 18 months ago as an added step.

However, I'm a new owner of an '07 Benz C350, Black of course. So, I'm looking at swirls and scratches that I cannot hand polish out. To make things worse, when I clay barred it today, it left quite a few marks. I'd only used that particular bar 1 other time, so it should have been good :dunno:. Needless to say, I threw it out afterward.

Anyway, from what I'm reading, my problems with the ceramic clear coat are going to need some mechanical help. I'm sold on the Porter 7424XP, but I wanted advice on polishing products.

Are the Menzerna products really the best choice for a black Benz? Super Intensive followed by Super Finish?? Is Glaze needed?

There are quite a few micro chips on the hood too, so I was thinking that the Poorboy's Black Hole might be good for those areas.

Finally, this is a daily driver, so I will probably be looking to use a sealant and not carnuba. I've been using the 3M Performance Finish for about a year and been pretty happy with the results, but that was with a bright red car. I fear the black paint will be less forgiving. Is the Wolfgang Deep Gloss really that good? How much better than the 3M?
 
I haven't used any of the Ceramiclear polishes from Menzerna but I know that Meguiars M-105/205 will take care of anything you will need to do with your Benz with exception to super fine jeweling in which you would probably want to use Menzerna's PO85RD for that. The black hole will not fill the chips regardless to how small they are, it will however give a deep glossy look to the finished paint and fill very fine micro marring. I don't have experience with the Deep Gloss sealant so I can't comment on that. Hope this helps some.
 
Being a newer Benz there's good chance it has the ceramiclear clearcoat---one way to make sure is to look at the paint code tag/label. According to the latest info available, if there is a distinct and seperate 'C' in front of the basecoat/clearcoat paint code. (ex. C bc/cc), then yes you have one of at least three different types of ceramiclear the Benz is painting some of their vehicles in Germany. As for the ones assembled in the USA, no "C" is mandatory yet.

Anyway, the Menz product line is endorsed by several members on this forum---I went to 'killerwheels' posts for his input---and followed through with his recommendations.
 
Well, I went ahead and sealed the paint last night with the 3M Performance Finish which I had on hand. It looks OK from a few feet away, but I know I'll be doing some major restoration work very soon.

BenzC3502011-01-30021800x532.jpg

BenzC3502011-01-30018800x532.jpg


So, would Menzerna SIP + Final Polish be the best bet to remove swirls all around, some heavy oxidation on the roof (along with some marring from bird poo, etc), and some minor scratches here and there?

Also, if I get the stuff and polish it down within a few weeks, do you guys see any need to re-clay the finish before polishing? The car is garaged at night and in a parking structure during the day, so my car's paint seems to stay very smooth for up to a year after I clay them.

Still trying to decide on what to use for a sealant. I want it to last as long as possible but still look great. Not looking for show quality, but for long lasting protection. I'll probably get a sample of the Wolfgang product when I order the other stuff unless any other suggestions come along.

BTW, any feeling on whether one of the 'sample' size bottles enough product to treat an average car once?
 
All it takes is one particle of some sort of hard contamination (that may or may not be there) to dislodge from your paint and get on your polishing pad and you'll end up with a pigtail scratch in the paint that you probably won't even see until you are done polishing an entire section.

When polishing any car, especially black it is best to be absolutely sure that there are no bonded contaminates present before doing your polishing steps. If the scenario that I have outlined above should happen, it will likely take you longer to repair the scratch than it would to quickly clay the entire car and you'll be removing more clear than necessary to repair it. It is a very nice car and I personally would not take any chances with it.

My rule is that if I drive a car even a few miles after being clayed, I will re clay it before starting any polishing. If you don't buy what I am suggesting, to be sure simply wash and dry the car and then do the baggy test over the entire surface of the car and then if you feel even one particle break out your clay bar and if you don't feel any contaminates you're good to go but be sure. I say this through experience.

If those 2 Menzerna products are the ones that are designed for Ceramiclear (there are so many) you should be good to go. On a test section with a polishing pad, I would try the less aggressive of the two products to see how you're results come out before moving on to a cutting pad and the more aggressive product. You never know until you try but you will always want to see if you can get your desired results with the least aggressive method first. If it works out, you will have saved yourself time and clear coat.

A sample size bottle of sealant should treat you car at least twice if not 3 times. Remember thin is in. (as Mike would say)
 
I just did a one step polish with SIP on a C280. I really liked the way SIP removed and corrected alot and left the paint pretty darn good. Perfection wasnt the goal but making it look better and removing a good majority of the swirls was.

As TD metioned if there is any particle on the paint and it gets rubbed across the paint it will leave a mark. It is amazing how this can happen so easily.

Always work clean, thoroughly clay the paint, change pads often, and keep several microfibers available. I personally wouldnt touch the paint with anything but a microfiber because even a dust particle can leave a mark if it is rubbed across the paint.... I know because I did it on accident.
 
SIP and PO106/PO85rd should work well, but you should test as suggested by TD and PAR. Clean towels are a must. Use the baggy test if unsure about remaining contaminants. A clean surface does require a lot of prep, but it is your time and well worth the effort. Remember you will only polish typically once a year and spend the rest of the time maintaining depending on driving conditions and other host of environmental issues.
 
Thanks for all the tips. I will certainly re-clay it before polishing. It doesn't take much to convince me its worth the time.
 
tuscarora dave said:
I haven't used any of the Ceramiclear polishes from Menzerna but I know that Meguiars M-105/205 will take care of anything you will need to do with your Benz with exception to super fine jeweling in which you would probably want to use Menzerna's PO85RD for that. The black hole will not fill the chips regardless to how small they are, it will however give a deep glossy look to the finished paint and fill very fine micro marring. I don't have experience with the Deep Gloss sealant so I can't comment on that. Hope this helps some.
Click to expand...
I have the Menz twins but prefer M105 for serious flaws followed by Optimum Sprays. The 8 oz. M105 will correct a lot for < $10.
 
I was hoping to buy one of the bundled packages, but I see now that most of them include an awful lot of product (32oz in both the Menzerna and Meguires packs). Do these products have a limited shelf life at all?
 
:welcome: To Autogeek Online Bill! :props:

Here's a list of products I use.

Car Wash: Duragloss 901, DP Extreme Foam,
Interior Protectant: Meguiar's M40
Glass Cleaner: Meguiar's Detailers Glass Cleaner D1200
Tires: Pinnicle Black Onyx, Optimum Opti-Bond Tire Gel, DP Gloss Tire Gel
APC: Meguiar's APC+
Wheel Cleaner: Meguiar's Wheel Brightener, Amazing Roll-Off
Wheel Wax: DP Wheel Glaze, Poorboy's World Wheel Sealant
Spray Wax: Optimum Spray Wax, Pinnacle Spray Wax
Quick Detailer: Finish Kare 425
Compound: Menzerna Power Gloss, Meguiar's M105
Medium Polish: Menzerna Power Finish, Meguiar's M205
Final Polish: Menzerna PO85RD
Leather Cleaner: Lexol
Leather Conditioner: Lexol
Trim: Poorboy's World Trim Restore, Meguiar's Ultimate Protectant
Chrome: Mothers
Liquid Sealant: Menzerna Power Lock, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant, DP Poli-Coat
Liquid Wax: Collinite 845, Pinnacle Souveran,
Paste wax: Collinite Marque Elegance, Pinnacle Souvern, pinnacle Signature Series ll, Poorboy's Natty, DP Max Wax, Wolfgang Fuzion

A good assortment of quality Microfiber towels
 
You do realize that Menzerna polishes must be broken down, right? It's not a bad thing, but something you should know.

I'd say go the M105/M205 route in which the abrasives do not have to be broken down. You should be able to finish quite well with M205 on a hard clearcoat.

Also, Griots DA > PCXP ......IMO
 
I lightly corrected a 09 dark grey C class last summer. I ended up using Megs Ultimate Compound on a couple of tough spots with an orange pad, then WG FG3.0 with a white pad. The WG FG is formulated for ceramic paints and supposed to be similar to 106FA.

In reality, you should be fine with the Megs Twins, Optimum Hyper spray compound and Polish, Menz Twins or Wolfgang twins. It's kind of personal preference. They work a little differently with Megs M105 seeming to have the best cut if you need to remove defects. The Optimum products all seem to have the least dusting, which I really like.

I have the WG twins and I got a really nice finish with the FG3.0 with my white 99 528iT but you need to fully work the product to break it down. The bimmer doesn't have ceramic paint, but it does finish nicely. I get more dust with the WG products than I really like. I finally got around to trying M205 on the white bimmer over christmas and it finished nicely too with less dust than the WG products.

If you are willing to wash your car after polishing, dust shouldn't be an issue. It also will help remove any polish residue on the paint before sealing or waxing without drying the paint with IPA. ONR would be a good option for washing the car as the light polymers in ONR should not affect your sealant or wax performance per Dr. G.

Regarding WG DGPS3.0. It's a great sealant and every car that I have used it on looks great (to me). It lasts roughly 4-6 months with our garaged cars that are washed every 1-2 weeks. The cars don't seem to attract as much dust when I use DGPS vs when I used traditional carnauba paste waxes and you get a "carnauba" like look to the paint.

I have not tried Poorboy's Black Hole. I picked up CG's new Glossworkz Glaze last November and tried it under DGPS. It is a polymer based glaze that is supposed to work with both sealants and waxes. The sealant seems to hold up fine (2+ months), if you are looking to hide defects under a sealant. I only want to polish once per year, with claying and waxing every 3-6 months so a glaze helps hide light defects and adds gloss. I know that it's heresy but I'm lazy.
 
I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the lingo, but I think I'm getting it all.

I think I'll give the Meguires 105/205 a try since it is so cheap ($8 for 8oz) compared to the Menzerna. Also, I'm not really sure what you guys mean by having to break down the Menzerna. I knew it had 'diminishing abrasives', but I didn't know that meant a different technique was needed.

Kurt,
I will probably fall into a 'lazy' category as well because I don't see myself polishing more than once a year. Of course, this is my first black car, so I have no idea how it will look after 6 months, assuming I can get it swirl free and minimize the defects with these products.
 
billbillw said:
I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the lingo, but I think I'm getting it all.

I think I'll give the Meguires 105/205 a try since it is so cheap ($8 for 8oz) compared to the Menzerna. Also, I'm not really sure what you guys mean by having to break down the Menzerna. I knew it had 'diminishing abrasives', but I didn't know that meant a different technique was needed.

Kurt,
I will probably fall into a 'lazy' category as well because I don't see myself polishing more than once a year. Of course, this is my first black car, so I have no idea how it will look after 6 months, assuming I can get it swirl free and minimize the defects with these products.
Click to expand...

You may find that Megs Ultimate Compound which is based on M105 is a bit easier to use for the general user. It's even cheaper than M105 and does a great job unless you have heavy defects to remove.

I put a friend into Optimum Car Wax which is a spray wax for her dark grey Mercedes. She uses it every month after washing and it looks great. She'll need a clay and a small section on the roof will need polishing this spring but overall it looks terrific. You may want to investigate a few spray waxes with your black car.
 
Well, I went ahead and ordered a buttload of stuff today including the 7424XP, a pad kit, etc, plus small bottles of M105/M205 and Ultimate Compound. Stocked up on a bunch of the DP 2 for 1 stuff including clay, wheel glaze. Probably about 20 other things I ordered so I can do things the right way from now on including tons of applicators and microfiber clothes, including a pair of Guzzlers (I guess I can retire my 10+ year old Absorber now). I also I decided to get the detailer bag that is on VIP special right now. Otherwise, there is no way I could keep it all organized in my garage! I hope the bag is big enough!

I was also going to get some of that Optimum spray wax and some of the no-rinse wash, but my order was really getting much, much too big ($$$). I'm sure I'll be trying a few other things come spring and tweak my care routine as the year wears on. For now, I just wanted to get all the stuff to get a good swirl free finish and protect it. A nice bonus was being able to use an MBworld coupon along with the current free shipping promo :)

Thanks again for all the advice.
 
A follow-up.

The Meguiars M105/205 products are working great on my car. I experimented between M105 and Ultimate Compound prior to finishing with M205. The Ultimate is definitely easier to use (stays wet longer, less dusting), but I found it didn't look as good as the 105 when I was finished. On my trunk, I had some fairly deep scratches that the 105 wasn't removing, so I reluctantly used some 2000 grit to level the scratches and amazingly, the 105 removed all the sanding haze. I can still see some minor flaws when I look close, but overall, it is a vast improvement. I'm simply amazed each time I wipe off the M205 residue to find that beautiful deep mirror reflection and no swirls!

Thanks for all the suggestions. So far, the Wolfgang DGPS 3.0 seems to work pretty good. Pollen season coming up here, so we shall see if it lasts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top