Swirl remover creating more scratches

Honestly after i applied it it saved me from having a stroke, I like it with the polishing pad. They sent me instructions on how to use it and it is very nice, but I am not sure it it hides or I corrected the problem. That is the question now, do I go over it again or leave it and try the truck pp2,pp1 with finish pad only?
 
basko93 said:
Honestly after i applied it it saved me from having a stroke, I like it with the polishing pad. They sent me instructions on how to use it and it is very nice, but I am not sure it it hides or I corrected the problem. That is the question now, do I go over it again or leave it and try the truck pp2,pp1 with finish pad only?
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PP2 and PP1 or SSR2 and SSR1? Did you apply the Klasse to the whole car or just the test area that you did?
 
The ssr's don't work as well on harder clears so if the truck has hard clear you might get the wrong impression of what it can do for your Camaro.
 
Just top of fender, needed to regroup before going any further. What is SSR?
 
Good Idea!! Poorboy's polishes are a bit on the oily side (That's why they work so well in direct sun) so I'd suggest after polishing the Camaro that you give it a quick wash to remove the polishing oils so that you have a clean canvas to work with when applying the Klasse.

I'd say go over it all again but just go easy in the area that you already worked on.

Gotta hit the sack. Nice chatting with you. Hope it helped. I subscribed to this thread so I can follow it in case I can be of help at all tomorrow. TD
 
tuscarora dave said:
...<snip>... Don't even try using SSR2.5 unless you're correcting moderate to heavy swirls with a rotary polisher. It just will not break down properly with a DA polisher (even a Flex 3401) though it works great with a rotary for a first cut on heavier defect removal....<snip>...
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Not to be the new guy that tells someone where to get off, but I just went through this with Steve, and SSR2.5 with a DA works just fine.

I just asked this question on 17-FEB, and DA ( even a PC ) is doable, SSR2.5 is not a rotary only product.

Not too sure how long ago you used SSR2.5, if it is from the time when SSR1 was pink, then you might be missing out on the newer formulations.

It might not be as quick with a DA vs a Rotary, so you might need to work in more passes to get the polish to break down with a DA, but it works as advertised with a Rotary, DA or by hand.

I am not trying to insult you, I have found quite a bit of info in your posts. Just want to correct the limitation that you posted about on SSR2.5.
 
basko93 said:
Just top of fender, needed to regroup before going any further. What is SSR?
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SSR is the generic name for the PB products of Super Swirl Remover.

Using Lake County Pad colors
If you went SSR2.5 with an orange pad, you were way too aggressive with the pad selection. PB does not recommend an orange pad with any of the SSR line that I recall, but I did not track the info on SSR3 ( Steve calls it liquid sandpaper ).
The most aggressive pad you should be using with SSR2.5 is a white pad. I have seen some use green, but this is someone that is well versed and experienced in PB product usage on different paint types.
For the SSR2 & SSR1 it is recommended that only black, blue or red ( finishing ) pads be used.

I did SSR2 with an orange flat LC pad on my PC on a Corian top, and got what I have read is called pig tails.
The cartoon curly tail marks in the top. Here I was trying to remove a few scratches, and I caused myself to need to wet sand and start over or try again with SIP. This is with a tool that is considered weak when compared to the Flex, so i can imagine that with the forced rotation on the flex you could make a big mess in short order.

This is in part of why I went on a quest to figure out what I am doing, less I trash a car. I am just happy that I went off the reservation on something that is the same color all the way through, not someone's car.

For the ProPolish and ProPolish2, these are not mechanical polished like the SSR line, they are all chemical.
You can get fairly far with ProPolish by changing the pad out.

Current thought is you have a soft clear coat.
The concept is always the same, least aggressive first and work up if more correction is needed ( I got this from tuscarora dave and every other seasoned member here - sage advice )
If you go with PP, start with a finishing pad on a test section.
Once you are done, clean it off and see what you have.
With the thought that you have a soft clear coat, be careful about using 15% IPA to wipe down the panel. Not my opinion, but from what I have read this is bad to use on soft paint. I just read a thread here tonight about IPA wipe downs, and 2 manufactures make something that serves the same task of cleaning every thing off the paint post polish, to know if you got the job done. Menz is one, I forget the other. Just something to keep in mind.

Now the big question, did the Klasse fix the defects on the camaro??
You won't know until you can get the Klasse off the paint and see.

The truck, needing PP2 is a question of what you are trying to correct on it.
Are there major defects or just a bit of marring ? My limited opinion, go with ProPolish with a finishing pad. If the paint is in good shape, go with a blue or red pad and keep in mind, ProPolish is not mechanical like the SSR line. If it is mild defect or swirls, start with a black pad and see what happens.

If you can get a close up of the paint defects that you are working on, tuscarora dave or another well versed member can give you a better starting point than try x with y pad. Also the make and year ( and color if the picture does not show it well ) will help someone with extended experience.
They might know how the clear is on a given manufacture and what to expect. This is info I do not have.
 
sscully said:
Not to be the new guy that tells someone where to get off, but I just went through this with Steve, and SSR2.5 with a DA works just fine.

I just asked this question on 17-FEB, and DA ( even a PC ) is doable, SSR2.5 is not a rotary only product.

Not too sure how long ago you used SSR2.5, if it is from the time when SSR1 was pink, then you might be missing out on the newer formulations.

It might not be as quick with a DA vs a Rotary, so you might need to work in more passes to get the polish to break down with a DA, but it works as advertised with a Rotary, DA or by hand.

I am not trying to insult you, I have found quite a bit of info in your posts. Just want to correct the limitation that you posted about on SSR2.5.
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Thanks for your insight on the newer version of SSR2.5. The last thing I want to do is pass along out dated info. Please accept my apologies. You are correct, I am speaking on my experience with the older version. I am glad to hear that it has improved. I really like Poorboy's products and I am a rotary guy and have never had any problems using it with a rotary. I'll have to give the newer version a try.
 
OK, went to white pad with pb2,gray pb1 and still see scratches. I am in garage with fluorescent lights and a 1 million candle power spot light directly on top of paint and i still see marks, but better than yesterday with orange and yellow pads. So I decide to pull out my Milwaukee rotary gray or black 3m pad with pb1 and that did it in short order, I like pb1 with rotary, very easy but a mess. So now I have this flex that is trying my patience, just seems not to either cut right or it is the pads, only thing I can do is put the 6 inch oc pad on rotary and see what happens? Anyway why is it I am great with rotary but flex is frustrating me?
 
basko93 said:
I have a 69 camaro show car that uses DuPont base coat clear coat and after a year of car covers and washing the finish has tiny clear coat scratches. So instead of using my rotary, I bought a 3401, all the pads, chemical guys sample swirl remover kit and klasse polish and glaze. i started with orange pad and 2.5 swirl remover and i created more scratches! So i changed to more aggressive remover and it got worse, I finally finished up with a gray pad and klasse polish but i think i just covered them up. How does the swirl remover make more scratches when applying, what am i doing wrong. My paint is like new but with some tiny imperfections from washing, do i need to stay with rotary and 3m products?
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One thing a lot of detailers overlook when it comes to using pads, regardless if it's for their buffers or hand applicators is the fact that they are usually on the hard side. Meaning if you don't "prep" them with the product before you start using them, you are bound to get some scratching. I alwasy take the product, spread it on a foam applicator and rub it in with my fingers. The pad will soak up some of the product which therefore makes it a lot softer. I learned this the hard way by scratching up my Mercedes (Black).

The same would be applicable to a buffer pad. Most of the detailers I've seen using buffers always put the product in an "X" or a small circle. Less product is fine but again, the outter surface of the pad is still going to be dry until you have the product spread around. So again, I spread the product over the entire pad.

May or may not work for you but I found it to take care of my problems when I was experiencing what you now are.
 
Pad is sprayed with pad conditioner, but I will try that and see.
 
Love the pic,love the car, love the wheels,love the color,love the whole package. HATE to state the obvious but I'm in love and a little jealous.
Looking forward to the after pics. Btw does that red have a name??
CHEERS
 
Ya, Garnet red, original color but new type base coat clear coat.
 
Love the car and take car of her! It reminds me of the one I had in High School.:doh:
 
I had this car since high school, long time.
 
slidder said:
One thing a lot of detailers overlook when it comes to using pads, regardless if it's for their buffers or hand applicators is the fact that they are usually on the hard side. Meaning if you don't "prep" them with the product before you start using them, you are bound to get some scratching. I alwasy take the product, spread it on a foam applicator and rub it in with my fingers. The pad will soak up some of the product which therefore makes it a lot softer. I learned this the hard way by scratching up my Mercedes (Black).

The same would be applicable to a buffer pad. Most of the detailers I've seen using buffers always put the product in an "X" or a small circle. Less product is fine but again, the outter surface of the pad is still going to be dry until you have the product spread around. So again, I spread the product over the entire pad.

May or may not work for you but I found it to take care of my problems when I was experiencing what you now are.
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:iagree:That is also why I use a finishing pad to do swirl removal, because the softer pad makes less mess to clean up in a second step. Obviously some paints are simply too hard for this method and may require a foam pad with cutting ability or even a wool pad (rotary) or now the Micro Fiber pads for a DA.

I originally gave up the Poorboy's SSRs after finally getting proficient with M-105 (thanks to the writings and photos of Kevin Brown) Went to M-205 just because it went along with M-105. I won't be going back to a diminishing abrasive swirl remover or compound any time soon. Now finishing polish, that's a different story. I'm hooked on Menzerna's PO85RD for final finishing (thanks to DARK HORSE).

To the OP Don't give up on the Flex until you've tried it with a finishing pad and Meguiars M-205. Poorboy's products work well but there is definitely a learned technique to using them and not getting those tiny little scratches that you are getting. When I switched to the Megs twins I said I'd never look back and I probably won't even if the other stuff was free. It just doesn't get much easier than M-205 for finishing on most paints.
 
basko93 said:
OK, went to white pad with pb2,gray pb1 and still see scratches. I am in garage with fluorescent lights and a 1 million candle power spot light directly on top of paint and i still see marks, but better than yesterday with orange and yellow pads. So I decide to pull out my Milwaukee rotary gray or black 3m pad with pb1 and that did it in short order, I like pb1 with rotary, very easy but a mess. So now I have this flex that is trying my patience, just seems not to either cut right or it is the pads, only thing I can do is put the 6 inch oc pad on rotary and see what happens? Anyway why is it I am great with rotary but flex is frustrating me?
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Don't know if you were putting the swirls back into the clear using the white pad and PP2. That is not overly aggressive, but it is not the least aggressive.

Would have been useful to start with ProPolish and a finishing pad ( same config as the rotary ) to see if you were removing them or putting them back in with the Flex.

The least aggressive first is the best advice you can take from any of the experienced members here.

You did it with the rotary, but for some reason you went a fair step more aggressive with the flex.

The Flex can do just about any correction that a rotary can do, it is just a matter of the time spent on the defect removal. And I would say if the clear actually is soft, time should not be an issue here.
Same thought of you can turn a 4x4 into a 2x4 with 120 grit sandpaper. It can be done, but it is much quicker going at it with a saw.

Just because you have product on the shelf does not mean you have to use it.

When you go at your truck, start with the least aggressive route first.
Go with a Black / Gray or even a blue / Red pad and ProPolish.
Work 1 area and clean the panel to check if the defect removal is being done. Might take 2 passes with a finishing pad and ProPolish. Only step up to ProPolish2 if the defect removal calls for it, and be cautious with stepping up to ProPolish2 and increased aggressiveness with the pad ( PP to PP2 and Black to White / Green ) at the same time.

Not too sure what you meant by this :
only thing I can do is put the 6 inch oc pad on rotary and see what happens?
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I hope OC is not Orange Constant pressure pad. This would make a mess out of anything. I don't know why you would use this configuration, that sounds out of bounds with PP or PP2 unless you have serious defects and need some real cut not just polish.
 
Well, orange pad was aggressive and I stopped using it. went to all the other color pads I have and still no luck. I figured pb1 and gray or black pad would be logical as my clear is soft, still not sure if I was adding scratches or not removing any. Went to the red pad and looked like nothing was happening. Finally got the black 3m pad and rotary which did what i needed. I think I scratched up the paint and the rotary cleaned it up as if I wet sanded! Think I need to change to some type of other pad and or product.
 
basko93 said:
I have a 69 camaro show car that uses DuPont base coat clear coat and after a year of car covers and washing the finish has tiny clear coat scratches. So instead of using my rotary, I bought a 3401, all the pads, chemical guys sample swirl remover kit and klasse polish and glaze. i started with orange pad and 2.5 swirl remover and i created more scratches! So i changed to more aggressive remover and it got worse, I finally finished up with a gray pad and klasse polish but i think i just covered them up. How does the swirl remover make more scratches when applying, what am i doing wrong. My paint is like new but with some tiny imperfections from washing, do i need to stay with rotary and 3m products?
Click to expand...
I had the same problem today working on a 2012 Black jag, I used the flex 3401 with the black fire Line started my test spot and the test spot came out wore then the car condition. this isn't the first time this happened. I used to use the cycle-polisher and never had a problem with de swirling a car.
 
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