Swirls from Automatic TOUCHLESS car washes?

sportscarhiatus

sportscarhiatus

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I've been meaning to ask this question for some time now. I wanted to get answers BEFORE winter. When winter comes around, I don't have a heated garage so washing for me is limited to ONR (if temperatures in garage permit) washing.

However, I would just like to take it to those automatic touchless car washes just to get the salt off. I have read and heard that sometimes these car washes cause swirls??? My question is, how is that possible provided NOTHING touches the paint except water and soap? Is it because it is sprayed at a high velocity? I would like to know please, so that I know what to do come winter...

I know the car washes with those spinning brushes that touch your car are for sure a big NO NO... but I thought the automatic touchless ones are fine.

Feed back please
 
i do a nice detail to my vehicles in the fall. waxed and sealed. Then i use automatics only when needed over winter. when you use an automatic, DO NOT get the wax.

This is my opinion... The wax will keep any salt dust that didnt get removed, under the wax, so its there until the wax wears off, so if there is a scratch in that area, thats the last thing you want.

even if you use automatics a lot over winter, just give it a nice detail in the spring to freshen it up. watch for automatics that have the under carrage spray, thats a nice plus! i mean the one that literally sprays underneathe the car, not the ones that are off to the side of a car. or just pressure wash the underside of your vehicle often. i do it once a week to the trucks.

hope it gives you some help!
 
ICEMAN said:
i do a nice detail to my vehicles in the fall. waxed and sealed. Then i use automatics only when needed over winter. when you use an automatic, DO NOT get the wax.

This is my opinion... The wax will keep any salt dust that didnt get removed, under the wax, so its there until the wax wears off, so if there is a scratch in that area, thats the last thing you want.

even if you use automatics a lot over winter, just give it a nice detail in the spring to freshen it up. watch for automatics that have the under carrage spray, thats a nice plus! i mean the one that literally sprays underneathe the car, not the ones that are off to the side of a car. or just pressure wash the underside of your vehicle often. i do it once a week to the trucks.

hope it gives you some help!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I have/or am already doing most of what you mentioned... but I do believe sometimes I do get the "fancy wax" in an auto car wash. That's a good point about getting dirt/debris caught in between my wax and the auto wash's wax.

But my question still stands... does using a touchless autowash swirl a vehicle? If so, how??? I just don't want my vehicles (which are all swirl-free) looking like a spiderweb in spring.
 
sportscarhiatus said:
Thanks for the reply! Yes, I have/or am already doing most of what you mentioned... but I do believe sometimes I do get the "fancy wax" in an auto car wash. That's a good point about getting dirt/debris caught in between my wax and the auto wash's wax.

But my question still stands... does using a touchless autowash swirl a vehicle? If so, how??? I just don't want my vehicles (which are all swirl-free) looking like a spiderweb in spring.
Click to expand...

No, almost all the ones with brushes cause swirls.
 
ToySupra727 said:
No, almost all the ones with brushes cause swirls.
Click to expand...

Those were my thoughts exactly. I don't see how spraying water on paint (granted the paint would be covered in salt and grime) causes swirls. I could have sworn I read on this forum that ALL autowashes (touchless even) should be avoided because of the fact that they cause swirls.
 
Usually if I ever go thru one. I get the basic. Soap(soak), rinse, Blow dry.
If my truck is paticularly dirty I go thru one before I wash it at home to get most of the dirt off. (being lazy I know) But it helps keep my mitts cleaner lol and I dont have to work as hard to keep them clean during washes.
 
I was sitting in line at a drive thru restaurant and there was a touchless wash next to it and I was watching an attendant rub a long handled brush all over this truck (after dipping it in a bucket which he probably doesn't change the water in all day long) before it went through the wash. It didn't seem to be in the wash long enough to even rinse off what ever the attendant rubbed all over it.
(You might be an AG if something like this makes you cringe)
 
I have used a fully touch less auto wash in my area and my problem is with the attendants that dry the car. They are using terry towels for drying and I have seen these towels drop to the ground and be picked up and put right back on the paint. I think the wash process is fine, but the towel drying process not so much.....

Paul
 
sportscarhiatus said:
But my question still stands... does using a touchless autowash swirl a vehicle? If so, how??? I just don't want my vehicles (which are all swirl-free) looking like a spiderweb in spring.
Click to expand...


I don't use automatic car washes, I "think" I can remember going through one at some point in my life but it was before I could drive and it's really hard to remember... maybe it never happened?

I do understand the importance of removing salt or aluminum chloride off the undercarriage of your car as well as all dirt off your body panels and for some people in some geographical locations that means taking your car to an automatic car wash.

So first, I've admitted I've never taken a car through a touchless car wash so I'm admitting I have no first hand experience with these systems.

Second, after admitting the above this is all just conjecture on my part...

"IF" swirls and scratches are being instilled into a car finish from a touchless car wash then the only way I can see this happening is the force of the water impacting the dirt on the surface and causing the dirt on the surface to physically cut the paint as it exits under water pressure.

That or there's some type of dirt residue in the water being sprayed due to insufficient filtering of reclaimed water.

These are both just guesses and I'm not even saying this type of thing happens, thus the use of the word "if" above.


:)
 
A true touch-less should not cause any swirls. However, IMO they never really get the car clean, and by spring time will will have accumulated a lot of bonded surface contaminants.

In the winter I like to use the coin-opp car washes late at night when no one else is there and hand wash my car. I bring a 5 gal bucket filled with warm soapy water (with lid) and some drying towels. Only use the rinse setting and you should be able to wash your car for $4-6. Just be courteous to other people and only go when it's not busy.


Rasky
 
These carwashes usually use soaps with very heavy cleaners that will strip off protection that you have applied on your car.

They also re-use water through a filtration device, which can be questionable if upkeep on the filter is not kept up.

Definitely use them at your own risk.
 
FinalTouchAuto said:
These carwashes usually use soaps with very heavy cleaners that will strip off protection that you have applied on your car.
Click to expand...

This could be where the scratches are coming from... it's not that these types of washes instill scratches... they just reveal scratches by removing any polish, wax or sealant...

Any wax or paint sealant that's working, that is it's leaving itself behind is coating over and that's another way of saying filling.

Remover the wax or paint sealant and you expose swirls and scratches that were previously masked...

:idea:
 
RaskyR1 said:
A true touch-less should not cause any swirls. However, IMO they never really get the car clean, and by spring time will will have accumulated a lot of bonded surface contaminants.
Click to expand...

I agree with you there... I know those auto touchless washes never really truly "clean" a car's paint, particularly after salt and grime have bonded on it from a week or two of driving in crappy weather. However, it IS better than nothing... I just want to make sure that for the most part, I am getting the majority of crud off of my paint, and doing so "safely" without instilling swirls.

When I do have time late at night, I try to do the coin-op method like you mention, but it's harder for me to find the time with the family and all... in the summer/fall I can wash my car in my driveway at my convenience, but in the winter, it sucks... besides having to snowblow the damn driveway and other things, I just don't have the time like I used to in the summer... so hence my desire to "survive' the winter months by just using the touchless as much as I can...

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This could be where the scratches are coming from... it's not that these types of washes instill scratches... they just reveal scratches by removing any polish, wax or sealant...

Any wax or paint sealant that's working, that is it's leaving itself behind is coating over and that's another way of saying filling.

Remover the wax or paint sealant and you expose swirls and scratches that were previously masked...

:idea:
Click to expand...

I agree with you Mike, about "exposing" previously filled swirls. But if my paint is indeed already swirl free, it wouldn't really be "exposing" anything per se. However, if there is some truth to the swirls coming from DIRTY water (filled with contaminants) being used in the auto wash water itself, then that could indeed be the cause.

However, if the above were true, it really wouldn't be "swirls" right? It'd be more like scratches in a random pattern...depending on how the water was sprayed. Swirls are in the shape they are because of the wiping motion (and the thousands of MF towel fiber-fingers) we use with our towels/MF's that are contaminated with particulates that scratch the paint, correct?

Can anyone attest to their paint getting marred/scratched by using touchless autowashes???
 
sportscarhiatus said:
However, if the above were true, it really wouldn't be "swirls" right? It'd be more like scratches in a random pattern...depending on how the water was sprayed. Swirls are in the shape they are because of the wiping motion (and the thousands of MF towel fiber-fingers) we use with our towels/MF's that are contaminated with particulates that scratch the paint, correct?
Click to expand...

The term "swirl" is misleading in that the "swirls" you see do not actually form a swirl pattern. It is an optical illusion and it is why when you move along the car looking at the swirls the center of the "swirl" appears to move with you.

Swirls are simply made up of many many small scratches in any number of directions.
 
FinalTouchAuto said:
The term "swirl" is misleading in that the "swirls" you see do not actually form a swirl pattern. It is an optical illusion and it is why when you move along the car looking at the swirls the center of the "swirl" appears to move with you.

Swirls are simply made up of many many small scratches in any number of directions.
Click to expand...

Good point. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
FinalTouchAuto said:
Swirls are simply made up of many many small scratches in any number of directions.
Click to expand...

I agree with that statement...

There are very distinct differences from cobweb swirls, also called spider web swirls and rotary buffer swirls.

Rotary buffer swirls, also called holograms or buffer trails can be shallow or very deep, depending upon the pad and type and size of abrasive used in the compound or polish. I think I touch on this in my dampsanding article...

I wrote something on MOL that goes into this in detail so I'm not going to retype it right now as I have to go remove rotary buffer swirls out of a Mustang.

The below are scratches in the paint caused by the misuse of a rotary buffer. The pattern you see mimics the direction the buffing pad was moved over the surface by the operator.
Horrendous001.jpg


Horrendous002.jpg



I can't remember if I've ever seen a finish so horrendous...


:)
 
wow, thats really bad...is it possible to remove rotary swirls like on that mustang with a DA or do they usually have to be taken out with a rotary?
 
Wills.WindowsAndWheels said:
wow, thats really bad...is it possible to remove rotary swirls like on that mustang with a DA or do they usually have to be taken out with a rotary?
Click to expand...

It's faster to remove them with a rotary... but it can be done with any of the electric polishes Autogeek carries and if you really wanted a good work out you could remove them by hand...

:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
It's faster to remove them with a rotary... but it can be done with any of the electric polishes Autogeek carries and if you really wanted a good work out you could remove them by hand...

:)
Click to expand...

yeah that by hand thing is some serious serious work. If doing them by hand (i dont intend on doing a full car by hand but, there are areas a pad doesnt fit into real well) would a standard foam wax pad along with a LOT of elbow grease work...or should a foam buffing pad be used? What motion would you recommend (circular, back n fourth/side to side etc?)
 
FinalTouchAuto said:
These carwashes usually use soaps with very heavy cleaners that will strip off protection that you have applied on your car.

They also re-use water through a filtration device, which can be questionable if upkeep on the filter is not kept up.

Definitely use them at your own risk.
Click to expand...
All good points. use a touchless when we get snow or really cold weather. When we get home I break out the ONR and go over the vehicle. I follow up with a spray wax. IMO the UC needs the underbody washed after salt especially. It is the lesser of evils IMO! Our town has a new well maintained touchless and it hasnt swirled the Ford. The XLR doesnt leave the garage if there is a hint of foul weather.
 
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