Swirls returned or I did not do a good job. What to do now?

MilesTeg

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Last fall I polished my deep impact blue mustang using Wolfgang TSR + Glaze. I was pretty happy with the results (followed Mike's advice about doing a test patch). In bright daylight and with a swirl finder I was unable to see any swirls except in the places that I know I didn't do well on (like the lower body panels). At the very least, there was a huge difference between the test patch and the uncorrected paint. My procedure ended up being a white pad + TSR followed by a white pad + Glaze, except in a few "trouble" spots where I stepped up to an orange with the TSR.

Today I spent today doing a full detail on the car, and to my disgust I see swirls all over the vehicle again. It's not as bad as before, but certainly they exist again in the places where I KNOW I removed them (i.e the trunk lid and top which I spent a lot of time on).

I believe the culprit is being cheap with the microfiber towels I was using. I'm very fastidious about what I do (two bucket method, etc.) other than using cheap towels. Lesson learned I guess, but the question is:

I would LIKE to hit the car again with the buffer, but I am concerned about ruining the paint by removing too much clear coat (mostly in the areas where I used the orange + TSR). Just how many times can you remove swirls before you cause bigger problems? I know the answer will vary a lot based on paint thickness, manufacturer, etc. but I want to know if I have cause for concern for 1-2 times or if it would take much more than that even with thin factory paint.
 
You can get a paint thickness gauge to know for sure but in general if you didn't take the previous polishing activity to any extreme you are very unlikely to run out of clearcoat on the second attempt.
 
Total swirl remover 3.0 to me is more of a filler in my opinion. To me it corrects a little and acts more like a glaze. I am not saying it does this on all paints but that's how I feel.
 
Total swirl remover 3.0 to me is more of a filler in my opinion. To me it corrects a little and acts more like a glaze. I am not saying it does this on all paints but that's how I feel.

3.0 a filler?

Of course you can say anything "in your opinion" but this stuff is a pretty potent swirl buster.
 
My advice would be to hit it again with MF pads and some Menzerna SF4000. I find this combo to work very well on lightly swirled ford paint. The MF pads give you the cut but finish out beautifully with Menz 4000. Then apply CQUK and be done with it! :-)
 
Another point is if they are truly towel marks, they are shallow and easy to remove with minimum clear coat affected.

But, somehow - my gut tells me swirls were never removed. You'd have to have some nasty towels to swirl up a car that fast. Linear towel marks are one thing - swirls another. I have used TSR time and time again and have never had it let me down or fill. FG is another story.

Whenever I hear of magically returning swirls - my first instinct is that they never were removed.
 
Total swirl remover 3.0 to me is more of a filler in my opinion. To me it corrects a little and acts more like a glaze. I am not saying it does this on all paints but that's how I feel.

That statement makes zero sense

"...is more of a filler" where do you get that?

"...corrects a little" BS


What paint did you use it on?
 
Are they "swirls" or RIDS?

Are these "cheap towels" cleaned between uses?

What type of wash mitt are you using?

Sis you inspect the paint after polishing, but before you applied your LSP?

What LSP did you use?
 
3.0 a filler?

Of course you can say anything "in your opinion" but this stuff is a pretty potent swirl buster.

That is your opinion too. I don't really see people on here raving about it as much as other products and it probably could be with certain variables, kind of pads, types of pads, paint hardness, how deep of swirls etc etc list goes on. If it didn't work with that bump it up a little as others have said. When I used it I was not impressed but if you like it by all means man.
 
That statement makes zero sense

"...is more of a filler" where do you get that?

"...corrects a little" BS


What paint did you use it on?
nk4;1155324]That statement makes zero sense
 
"...is more of a filler" where do you get that?
 
"...corrects a little" BS
 
 Well I am saying I found the same results as the original poster I don't see you telling him oh that's bs that could never happen. It happened on a number of cars I did. You can think my opinion is bs all day long I don't care.
2012 chevy impala 02 ford explorer and repainted panel on a ford fiesta.
 
That is your opinion too. I don't really see people on here raving about it as much as other products and it probably could be with certain variables, kind of pads, types of pads, paint hardness, how deep of swirls etc etc list goes on. If it didn't work with that bump it up a little as others have said. When I used it I was not impressed but if you like it by all means man.

The thing is, TSR 3.0 has been pretty well accepted as a defect removing polish that doesn't fill. Like a zillion people have used it with good luck, myself included. So, it's not only my opinion but it's pretty common knowledge. Saying "it fills" (implying it doesn't remove defects - but fills them) is like saying IronX doesn't remove iron and airplanes can't really fly.

People may not be raving about it, because it's old hat. But, so are a lot of commonly used products that just work and people aren't raving about either.

The way I look at these things is - if like ALMOST everyone else is getting good results with a product and I'm not - I don't say the product is no good, but I look to myself to try and figure out what I'm doing wrong. That way I feel I am becoming more skillful and becoming a better detailer.
 
Maybe you need to read my post again. No where did I say it was not good. I still stand by what I said it fills more than I like to me when I tried it the product acted more like a glaze. You are not going to change my mind because of my experience, and I am not going to change your mind because it has worked for you and others. That's great but I can say how I feel about something just like anyone else on here can.
 
•Because of the Physics involved when "correcting" paint:
-Swirls can seem to visibly disappear while buffing, and even directly thereafter---under all types of lighting!
-Yet, they'll "somehow": return later on, to be seen again.

•There are several articles regarding this phenomenon.
I'll suggest that while google-ing...type in words like:
-could Menzerna be smoke & mirrors?
-A new perspective on paint defect return
-paint (solvent/alcohol) swelling
-the physics of polishing


Bob
 
Well he did say he used a glaze after the Total Swirl Remover so I'd lean more toward that doing the filling than the WGTSR.

As for going through the paint you'd have to know the history of the car. Are you the first owner? If so, you should be fine if you've only used the orange pad and TSR then a white pad and glaze. You may want to stick to the TSR and orange pad until the swirls are gone then do a light polish with the TSR and a white pad for more shine using upward pressure on the polisher.
 
He may be referring to Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, which is actually a polish, with cut similar to Menzerna SF4000
 
Today I spent today doing a full detail on the car, and to my disgust I see swirls all over the vehicle again.

It's not as bad as before,


You're probably doing everything right. The problem is not with you or the products the problem is modern clearcoat paints scratch easily.


Been trying to explain this for over a decade now... I remember when I first joined Corvedtteforum in 2002 ALL the gurus over there BACK THEN were always talking about how SOFT the clearcoats were on new Corvettes, back then they too did not understand that clearcoats while very hard still scratch very easy. It took a few years but they're all up to speed now days....


Here's my article on this topic....


Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive


Clearcoat paints have a characteristic called,


Scratch-Sensitive


This means even though the paints are very hard they still scratch very easily and because there's a colored layer of paint under the clear, the colored layer works to amplify and magnify the surface or topical scratches making them easy for the human eye to see.


This drives car enthusiasts up the wall.


It also confuses people to no end because it's hard for people to wrap their brains around the concept of how a car's paint can be very hard but then scratch so easily.


The hardness factor smacks you upside the head when you're first learning how to either hand or machine polish because you find out real fast removing the swirls out of a clear coat finish is not as easy at it sound like it should be.

Again, this is for people brand new to working on clearcoats, seasoned pros acquire the skills that make removing swirls and scratches for them very easy via experience.


Once a person completely understands and fully grasps how the hardness factor affects the time, energy and resources required to remove swirls and scratches out of a modern clearcoat finish the light bulb in their head turns >on< and then they understand why it's so important to make sure that ANYTHING that TOUCHES the paint needs to be of the highest quality you can obtain and there needs to be some thinking going on as to the way or manner in which you touch the paint.

In other words, once you figure all of the above out and then buff your car's paint out to the point that you're happy with it, now you have to be mindful of,



  • How "you" wash and dry it.

  • How "you" wipe it with any type of spray-on product.

  • How you let "someone else" wash it.

  • How you let "someone else" wipe it with any spray-on product or even touch it at all.


The above 4 things are how a car is "touched" the most for most people and most cars. (think about it).


Make sense?



Clearcoat paints are scratch-sensitive. They are harder than traditional single stage paints but even though they are harder they still scratch very easily and because they are hard it's difficult to get the scratches out.


Abrasive Technology
This leads into the next topic people discover and that is the most important factor that determines if swirls and scratches are removed WITHOUT the product, pad and process simply replacing one type of defect and replacing it with its own type of defects, (holograms or micro-marring), and that factor is the abrasive technology. The stuff inside the bottle.


So be careful how you work on your own car and if you let someone else work on your car make sure they are qualified.

This includes taking your beautiful brand new car to ANY type of car wash, (things touch your car's paint at a car wash).

Or if you take your car to the dealership to have the oil changed because dealerships love you so much they will have your car washed, (touched), by their car wash guys...


See these articles...

How to maintain a freshly waxed car

DON'T WASH CAR !!!!!!!!!!!


Scratch your car for $5.00

The reality of the 100% Hand Car Wash


And the really BIG reason all of this is important?


Because clearcoats are THIN. The factory sprayed clear layer of paint on most new cars averages around 2 mils. That's thinner than the average post-it note.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_01.jpg




The next time you see a post-it note... feel it between your fingers... this is usually all it takes to drive home the point as to how thin the paint is on your beautiful, shiny car.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_02.jpg



There you go...


Win/Win
Please feel encouraged to share the link to this article with anyone you think needs to be brought up to speed about the paint on their car.




:)
 
To the OP...

For what it's worth, the clearcoat on my truck scratches pretty easy. So even after I get her swirl free, after a few washed, even being very careful the paint shows signs of light swirls.

No big deal to me as I just polish them out again using either a Fine Cut polish or a Medium Cut polish and then reseal with wax.

My wife's car has a Ceramiclear paint system on it and washing it the same way as I do my truck, it never shows signs of swirls. I also keep the paint on her coated with Black Label Surface Coating, that's all that's ever been on it since we bought it.

I typically use Pinnacle wax on my truck.

I test products from time to time so my truck also is by default a driving test panel.


The key thing to remember is to always use the best quality products you can obtain when "touching" your car's paint.

Touching can be wiping, washing, drying, basically anytime you physically "touch" the paint.


Also, don't scrub polished paint. I talk about this in my how-to book, all versions. See my signature line.


:)
 
As to the discussion in this thread about Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover... it is a MEDIUM CUT POLISH and a very capable medium cut polish at that.


Here's an article that I wrote on the Wolfgang products....



The Wolfgang Four


Here are four products that will take care of about 99.9% of any exterior paint correction product you'll ever have in your garage.


The Wolfgang Four
The_Wolfgang_Four.jpg



Forum member RFulmer coined this term, (due credit where credit is due), and since there's been a lot of questions about what each product is, what they do, the order of aggressiveness and when you use one over the other, here's some info...





Uber Compound
  • Aggressive Compound - More aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • For some people on some cars it can be used as a compound/polish after which the paint can be sealed with a wax or synthetic paint sealant.


Total Swirl Remover
  • Medium Cut Polish - Less aggressive than Uber Compound and more aggressive than Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • Should be tested before using Uber Compound to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.


Finishing Glaze
  • Fine Cut Polish - Much less aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and of course dramatically less aggressive than Wolfgang Uber Compound.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • Should be tested before using Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.
  • Great "Maintenance Polish" for use removing shallow swirls that show up over time from normal wear-n-tear on daily drivers and after a person has already performed a multi-step procedure to remove serious paint defects.


Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
  • German engineered synthetic paint sealant.
  • Non-cleaning, pure synthetic - Paint must be in excellent condition as in brand new or previously polished to like new condition before use.
  • Can be applied by hand or any type of dual action polisher wit foam pads.
  • This product "seals" the paint in the say way a car wax or paint coating will seal the paint. It is water insoluble and as such like all synthetic paint sealants, car waxes and paint coatings is not body shop safe.
  • Requires 30 to 45 minutes of drying time before removal.
  • Oxygen activated. After buffing off the excess sealant the remaining protection ingredients should be allowed to cure and fully set-up for an approximate 12 hour window of time before the vehicle is put back into service where it will be exposed to water.
Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
Each product is chemically compatible and chemically beneficial when used as a system approach to take a diamond in the rough and turn it into a glistening gemstone. Using the entire line in the correct order or just a few of the product in the correct order is an example of working forward in the paint polishing process.


All Inclusive System-Approach
This group of four products with just about any tool, any pad and even by hand will produce not only show car results but do it consistently across a VERY wide spectrum of paint systems including,
  • Hard paints, soft paints and everything in-between.
  • Factory OEM paints and aftermarket repaints at your local body shop or custom paint shop.
  • Single stage and basecoat clearcoat.
Which products do you need?
Which product you'll need depend upon the condition of the paint on the car. Click to my list of paint condition categories and read through the descriptions for the different categories. Then after washing and drying your car, inspect the paint both with your sense of touch, (The Baggie Test), and visually with your eyes in bright light for swirls and scratches.

Then determine which category your car's paint fall into. Here are some general guidelines but the best way to determine which exact product you'll need to remove the defects and restore the finish on your car to your expectations can only be determined by doing a Test Spot


How To Do a Test Spot


Test Spot results showing the before and after difference...

FlexVideo005.jpg







On Autogeek.net

Wolfgang Uber Compound 3.0

Total Swirl Remover

Finishing Glaze

Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0


And if you don't have a 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads get them...

5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers


:xyxthumbs:
 
To date, the Rupes company has done the best job of labeling their compounds and polishes so the average Joe can know what's inside the bottles. That said, ALL compounds and polishes can be placed into 1 of 4 categories.

Aggressive Cut Compound
Medium Cut Polish
Fine Cut Polish
Ultra Fine Cut Polish


Here's my article on this topic....

Word Definitions - Compounds, Polishes, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes


CompoundpolishCleanerGlaze.jpg


There's always a lot of confusion when it comes to words and terms used in the car detailing industry and hobby.

Part of the reason for this is because there's no organization in the auto appearance industry that regulates or has oversight over the language used to describe and market car appearance products. Manufactures, marketers and distributors of car care appearance products can and do name their products using whatever terms they like regardless of the confusion it may cause or any historical precedents.


Judge a product by the function it performs, not the name on the label
Because there's no universal or industry accepted standards for definitions for words and terms used in the car care appearance world, my practice and recommendation to others is to judge a product not by the name on the label but by what function the product serves.

For example if a product is referred to as a polish but acts as a paint sealant, then the product is in fact a paint sealant and not an abrasive polish in the historical use of the word.

If a product is referred to as a glaze but acts to seal the paint with some type of water insoluble paint protection ingredients, then the product is a wax or a paint sealant or some hybrid variation of a wax or paint sealant and not a glaze in the historical use of the word.

Here's a list of commonly used words in our industry and my attempt at creating some type of standardized definition for each word.


Aggressive Cut Compound
Medium Cut Polish
Fine Cut Polish
Ultra Fine Cut Polish
Non-Abrasive Glaze or Pure Polish
Pre-Wax Cleaner
Paint Cleaner
Carnauba Wax
Synthetic Paint Sealant
Hybrid Sealant/Wax
Paint Coating
Cleaner/Wax or AIO



Below are some descriptions for each category.


Aggressive Cut Compound
A very aggressive liquid or paste that uses some type of abrasive technology to cut or abrade paint quickly. In the body shop world, compounds are used to remove sanding marks. In the detailing world, compounds are used to remove deep below surface defects like swirls, scratches and water spot etchings. Depending upon the abrasive technology and the application method and material, some automotive compounds can remove down to #1000 grit sanding marks. Of course topcoat hardness is an important factor that affects compound effectiveness at removing below surface defects.

Historically, the more aggressive the compound, the more follow-up polishing will be required to restore a defect-free finish. Due to major advancements in abrasive technology, the trend is for very aggressive compounds that finish out like medium and even fine polishes.

In most cases an aggressive compound should be followed with either a medium polish or a fine polish to refine the surface to a higher degree of finish quality than the results produced by only the compound. Most compounds are dedicated products in that their function is primarily to abrade the paint. For this reason, after the compounding step further polishing and then sealing steps are required. Most compounds are water-soluble so that they can be washed, (dissolved with water and soap), off body panels and out of cracks and crevices.



Medium Cut Polish
A liquid or paste that uses some type of abrasive technology to cut or abrade the paint but is less aggressive than a true cutting compound. Depending upon the abrasive technology and the application method and material, some medium polishes can remove down to #2000 grit sanding marks and finish out to LSP ready. Topcoat hardness is an important factor that affects a medium polish's effectiveness at removing below surface defects.

Most medium polishes are dedicated products in that their function is primarily to abrade the paint. For this reason, after the polishing step further steps are required, which may include another final polishing step depending upon the results after using the medium polish and the expectations by the user for the end results. At a minimum, the paint should be sealed with a wax, paint sealant or coating.



Fine Cut Polish
A liquid or paste that uses some type of abrasive technology to cut or abrade the paint but is less aggressive than a true medium polish. Depending upon the abrasive technology and the application method and material, some fine polishes can remove down to #2500 grit sanding marks while still finishing out LSP ready. Topcoat hardness is an important factor that affects a fine polish's effectiveness at removing below surface defects.

Most fine polishes are dedicated products in that their function is primarily to abrade the paint. For this reason, after the fine polishing step further steps may be required. This could include another final polishing step depending upon the results after using the fine polish and the expectations by the user for the end results. At a minimum, the paint should be sealed with a wax, paint sealant or coating.



Ultra Fine Cut Polish
A liquid or paste that uses some type of abrasive technology to cut or abrade the paint but is less aggressive than a true fine polish. Depending upon the abrasive technology and the application method and material, some ultra fine polishes can remove down to #2500 grit sanding marks while still finishing out LSP ready. Topcoat hardness is an important factor that affects an ultra fine polish's effectiveness at removing below surface defects.

Most ultra fine polishes are dedicated products in that their function is primarily to abrade the paint. For this reason, after the ultra fine polishing step at a minimum, the paint should be sealed with a wax, paint sealant or coating.



Non-Abrasive Glaze or Pure Polish
Historically, the term glaze is used to describe a bodyshop safe, hand-applied liquid used to fill-in and mask fine swirls while creating a deep, wet shine on fresh paint. It's a category of products used on fresh paint in body shop environments, which will not seal the paint surface by depositing a long lasting sacrificial barrier coating using some type of protection ingredients.

A bodyshop safe glaze is used in place of a wax, sealant or coating because it won't interfere with the normal out-gassing process of fresh paint for the first 30 days of curing. The function of a bodyshop glaze is to hide rotary buffer swirls while giving the paint a uniform, just waxed appearance to ensure customer satisfaction. After 30 days cure time its normal to the seal the paint using a wax, paint sealant or coating.




Hiding Swirls
There's a number of reasons why historically body shops use a glaze on fresh paint to hide swirls. Most body shops are production oriented and perform a limited number of machine buffing steps due to time restrictions and profitability. This would include machine compounding with a wool pad and machine polishing with either a wool finishing pad or a foam polishing or finishing pad, both steps using rotary buffers.

The end results are normally excellent shine but with rotary buffer swirls in the paint, (also called holograms and/or rotary buffer trails), that can be seen in bright light. The glaze is normally hand-applied to fill-in and hide the swirls as hand application is fast and relatively effective as long as the swirls are shallow. This glazing procedure produces a finish that customers will accept at the time of vehicle pick-up. The results are somewhat misleading however because bodyshop glazes are water soluble and as such will wash off after a few car washes or repeated exposure to rainy weather and then the swirls will become visible. This is the standard and accepted practice in the body shop industry.


Note: Because there are no rules or regulations governing the definition or the use of the word glaze, manufactures and sellers of paint care products use the word glaze as a name for all types of products that are not true glazes in the historical sense of the word. Most common is the use of the word glaze in the name of a car wax or paint sealant.



Paint Cleaner
A liquid, paste or cream that relies primarily on chemical cleaning agents to remove any light topical contamination or surface impurities to restore a clean, smooth surface as part of a process to prepare a painted finish for application of a wax, paint sealant or coating. Paint cleaners are for very light cleaning and not normally intended to be used like an abrasive polish to remove below surface defects.



Pre-Wax Cleaner
Similar or the same as a paint cleaner. Most pre-wax cleaners are complimentary products in that they are part of a specific brand's system in which the pre-wax cleaner is matched to a wax or paint sealant. There's a chemical synergistic compatibility to ensure maximum performance between products that might not be achieved using products from outside the brand. (only the chemist would know)



Carnauba Car Wax
Generally defined or at least thought of by the masses as a product that contains some type of naturally occurring waxy substance intended to protect the paint while creating a clear, glossy finish. Carnauba wax is the most commonly used naturally occurring wax found in car wax formulations. This category of traditional waxes will wear off under normal wear-n-tear, repeated washings and exposure to the environment and should be reapplied on a regular basis to maintain a protective coating on the surface of the paint.



Synthetic Paint Sealant
Generally defined as, or thought of by the masses, as a product that contains some type of man-made or synthetic protection ingredients to protect the paint while creating a clear, glossy finish. Perception on the part of the public is that a paint sealant is made from synthetic polymers with no naturally occurring wax type substance or other naturally occurring protection ingredients.

General consensus among car enthusiasts is that because the protection ingredients are synthetic, a paint sealant will protect better and last longer than a traditional car wax made using naturally occurring waxes. Paint sealants will wear off under normal wear-n-tear, repeated washings and exposure to the environment and should be reapplied on a regular basis to maintain a protective coating on the surface of the paint.



Hybrid Sealant/Wax
Even though most people think that the words car wax refers to a category of products that uses naturally occurring wax ingredients for protection and beauty and paint sealant refers to a category of products that uses synthetic polymers for protection and beauty, the fact is most products are a blend of both natural and synthetic ingredients and are thus hybrid sealant waxes.


Dedicated waxes and sealants
There are dedicated car waxes and dedicated paint sealants in cases where each product does in fact rely primarily on either naturally occurring ingredients for protection or all man-made, synthetic ingredients for protection. The marketing materials or label copy will usually share this information or you can contact the manufacture to get their official statement on the matter.

There are many factors that affect how long a wax or paint sealant will last so the only meaningful comparisons are when testing is done using strict controls. Instead of relying on a wax or paint sealant to last a specific amount of time a better practice is to simply re-apply the product to the paint on a regular schedule and to do so before all of the previously applied product has completely worn off.


Single versus Multiple Benefits and Features
For what it's worth, if you use a product formulated using only one type of protection ingredient then you only get the benefits and features of the single ingredient. If you use a product formulated using multiple protection ingredients then you get the benefits and features of multiple ingredients. Depending upon the quality of the chemistry behind the formulation, either type of product could be best-in-class or mediocre-at-best. This is where trust in the reputation of the brand comes into play as well as the expertise of chemists creating the formulas.​



Paint Coatings
Generally defined as any paint protection product that contains man-made or synthetic protection ingredients that are intended to permanently bond to the paint to both provide a barrier-coating of protection as well as create a clear, high gloss finish. The products available in this category are considered permanent coatings because like your car's paint, they cannot be removed unless you purposefully remove them or you purposefully neglect them.


Definition of the word permanent in the context of sealing paint
This is kind of tricky just because the nature of discussion forums is for some personality types to read super-literally into each and every single word, in this case the word permanent.


Definition from TheFreeDictionary.com
per•ma•nent (pûrm-nnt)

1. Lasting or remaining without essential change: "the universal human yearning for something permanent, enduring, without shadow of change" (Willa Cather).

2. Not expected to change in status, condition, or place: a permanent address; permanent secretary to the president.



In the context that we refer to a coating as being permanent it means that once the coating is properly applied and allowed to cure and set-up, it will not come off under normal circumstances or via normal wear-n-tear such as careful washing. So in this context, a coating is permanent in the same manner your car's paint is permanent.

The paint on your car is not going to come off unless you abrade it, chemically dissolve it or in some other mechanical means, purposefully remove it. In this same way, legitimate paint coatings are not going to come off unless you abrade it, chemically dissolve it or in some other mechanical means, purposefully remove it.

Traditional car waxes and paint sealants will wear off under normal use circumstances or via normal wear-n-tear such as careful washing. So in the context of and in comparison with traditional car waxes and paint sealants, paint coatings are permanent.



Cleaner/Wax also called an AIO
A cleaner/wax or what is also referred to as an All-In-One or AIO for short, is a one-step step product formulated using a blend of chemical cleaners and often times some type of abrasives, (either diminishing or non-diminishing), plus some type of protection ingredients that will remain on the surface after the cleaning action is finished and the residue is wiped-off the paint.

The chemical cleaners and/or the combination of chemical cleaners and abrasives will remove topical defects like oxidation and road grime from the surface which will restore clarity to the clearcoat so the richness of color will again shine through.

At the same time the product will leave behind a layer of protection using some type of protection ingredients either natural, synthetic or both, to help lock in the shine and of course protect the paint from the elements.



Abrasive Cleaner/Waxes
Some cleaner/waxes have the ability to remove below surface defects like swirls and scratches but to what degree depends upon how aggressive the abrasives are in the formula. There are some fairly aggressive cleaner/waxes available and these are normally marketed at the production detailing industry where detailers want a cleaner/wax that will quickly undo years of neglect in a single step.



Retail Car Waxes = Cleaner/Waxes
When you go to your local auto parts stores, most of the retail waxes on the shelves do in fact fall into the cleaner/wax category as they are targeted at the average person and the average person is driving what we call a daily driver, that is the car they drive back and forth to work each day and most of the time it’s parked outside. Over time, the finish quality deteriorates and in order to restore it with just a single product, this means the product must offer some level of cleaning ability or abrasive action.



One-Step or AIO
A cleaner/wax is also referred to as a One-Step product or an AIO. The terms, Cleaner/wax, One-Step and AIO are describe the same thing, a product that will clean, polish and protect the paint in one step.


Production Detailing - Daily Drivers - Maintenance Wax

Production Detailing
Cleaner/waxes are the norm for production detailing because the goal of production detailing is to restore the shine to the paint on a car as fast as possible to maximize the profits for the detailer or detail shop. For this reason you don't want to do a multiple step procedure you want to do all the steps in one procedure, that is clean, polish and protect.

Daily Drivers
Cleaner/waxes are also a good option for daily drivers, especially if the vehicle is parked outside most of the time where the paint gets dirty and contaminated. A quality cleaner/wax will undo the damage caused by constant exposure to the elements and normal wear-n-tear and do it in one step which is a good match for the majority of do-it-yourselfers because they are not interested in creating a show car finish using a multiple-step process for a car that is just a daily driver.

Maintenance Wax
Some cleaner/waxes are formulated to be very light in their cleaning ability and as such make great one-step maintenance products for cars regularly maintained in good to excellent condition. Because they will clean, polish and protect in one-step a lot of people prefer to use a light cleaning cleaner/wax to maintain their car's finish because it cuts out steps and thus saves time.​



LSP Ready
A term used to describe the condition of paint that is ready to be sealed with a car wax, a paint sealant or a coating. A paint finish that is LSP ready means that any above surfaces bonded contaminants have been removed and the majority of below surface defects that can be safely removed have been removed leaving behind a predominantly defect-free surface that meets the car owner's or the detailers expectations for finish quality.



Bodyshop Safe
Products that are bodyshop safe mean they contain no ingredients that could contaminant a fresh paint environment by introducing substances that would cause surface adhesion problems on body panels to be sprayed with fresh paint.

Any ingredient or substance that will cause surface tension will cause surface adhesion problems, the most common problem talked about is Fish Eyes, which is where some type of contaminant on a body panel prevents paint from bonding to the paint where the contaminant is and instead forces the paint to pile-up around the contaminant causing what looks like a round, bulbous looking fish eye.

A simple example would be any product that causes water to bead-up on the surface, (causes surface tension), would cause adhesion problems or Fish Eyes.


Bodyshop Safe is also a term used interchangeably with the term, fresh paint safe. That is, a fresh paint safe product is any product that can safely be applied to fresh paint, (less than 30 days old from time of spraying), without sealing the surface and thus interfering with any outgassing process.

Bodyshop safe products tend to be water soluble as anything that is water insoluble tends to include ingredients that can potentially form a barrier coating that seals paint.

Car waxes, paint sealants and coatings are not by definition, bodyshop safe for recommended for fresh paint before 30 days cure time. Some people will argue this point because most modern clearcoat paints are chemically cured via catalyzation. While this is probably true, it's always best to follow the paint manufactures recommendation as they know their products best and to my knowledge there is not a single paint manufacture that has an official statement where they recommend sealing their paint systems before 30 days have passed.

The 30 day waiting period comes from the age of solvent-evaporation paints, where the paints would dry and cure as the solvents used to make the paint thin so it can be sprayed out of a spray gun needed time to fully evaporate out of the paint. Modern, catalyzed paints cure due to a chemical reaction somewhat akin to mixing together a two-part epoxy where the epoxy dries and hardens chemically, not via exposure to the air.

The 30 day waiting time for catalyzed paint is for the most part just carry-over form of an insurance policy to help Bubba-Proof the re-finishing industry by allowing at least 30 days to pass before the vehicle owner applies anything to the surface that could potentially have a negative effect on fresh paint.



Outgassing
The process in which solvents and other additives which are mixed into automotive paints before spraying work their way out of the paint, (after spraying), to the surface where they can evaporate.



This is also in my how-to book....


:)
 
To the OP...

For what it's worth, the clearcoat on my truck scratches pretty easy. So even after I get her swirl free, after a few washed, even being very careful the paint shows signs of light swirls.

No big deal to me as I just polish them out again using either a Fine Cut polish or a Medium Cut polish and then reseal with wax.

My wife's car has a Ceramiclear paint system on it and washing it the same way as I do my truck, it never shows signs of swirls. I also keep the paint on her coated with Black Label Surface Coating, that's all that's ever been on it since we bought it.

I typically use Pinnacle wax on my truck.

I test products from time to time so my truck also is by default a driving test panel.


The key thing to remember is to always use the best quality products you can obtain when "touching" your car's paint.

Touching can be wiping, washing, drying, basically anytime you physically "touch" the paint.


Also, don't scrub polished paint. I talk about this in my how-to book, all versions. See my signature line.


:)


Thanks for the reply Mike. It's very appreciated. But my question is how many times one can buff out swirls before they would cause damage to the paint, given its extreme thinness. The implication from your comment about your truck is that it's generally safe to do on occasion (say once every year or two) with a fine or medium cut polish. Am I reading that implication correctly?
 
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