Tell me about ON THE FLY

SoreArms

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Greetings from yet another new guy. I'm getting ready to try my hand at polishing with one of these new fangled DA polishers. I've read so many articles and videos by Mike Phillips and posts and opinions on this forum that I feel like I did back in college when I wondered why Physics is so hard when it seemed so glamorous when I chose it as a major!

Anyway, I just finished an article by Mike where he mentioned cleaning his polishing pads ON THE FLY after completing each section or two. He mentioned there were 3 methods of cleaning pads; using a BRUSH, using a PAD WASHER or using a TERRY CLOTH TOWEL (On The Fly method). For me polishing my Ford Flex I'm guessing that could end up being about 30 pad cleanings for one polish job! That got my attention!


Can someone explain the steps for using the ON THE FLY method? And probably the BRUSH method also. I doubt I'll be interested in spending $150 for a wash bucket and chemical for only my personal cars a couple times a year.
 
You don't want to clean your Flexs' pad on the fly with a towel, or you will have sore arms. The towel cleaning process is only for non direct drive machines, like the PC. With a machine like the Flex, you run the machine slowly and drag the brush across the pad to clean it.

Yes, you want to clean or switch pads a lot. The more aggressive polishing your doing, the more frequently you should do so. The reasoning is a slurry or spent polish and abraded clear-coat is sitting on the surface of your pad, the more aggressive the polishing, the more a abraded clear-coat. Also, pads tend to reach a saturation point with polish where they start to get gummy in the center.

You probably don't need a pad cleaning machine, as I understand they don't work well with all size pads and machines. A lot of times I only use 2 pads to polish a whole car. What I do is polish a few panels, then switch pads. Then do a few more. By this time I tend to want to take a break. I clean the pads 100% and set them to dry on a vertical fan. In 20 mins they are 90% dry, then I spin the pads dry the rest of the way.
 
Here is everything you will want to know along with a video:
[video=youtube_share;NuyrBrqz_YU&hd=1"]How To Clean Your Pad On The Fly - YouTube[/video]
How to clean your foam pad on the fly


Video: How to clean your pad on the fly

Here's a technique I've been showing for years on how to clean your pad quickly so you can get back to buffing out your car.





The above technique works with any of the below DA Polishers,

Porter Cable DA Polisher
Meguiar's DA Polisher
Griot's Garage DA Polisher
Shurhold DA Polisher





If it works for you after watching the video, please post a comment to the thread for the video in the included link above.

Thank you.




When using a dual action polisher to remove below surface defects with any type of abrasive product you’re going to have two things building up on the face of the foam pad that you need to clean off.
  • Spent residue - From the product you’re using.
  • Paint - Small particles of paint that are coming off the car as you abrade the surface
If you’re working on a clear coat finish then keep in mind you won’t see the paint residue building up on the pad because the clear coat paint is clear. :idea:

Make sense?


If you’re working on a clearcoat finish, all you're going to see is the color of the product that you’re using. For example if you’re using a white colored polish you’ll see white residue building-up on the pad.

Now if you’re working on as single stage paint then you’ll see the color of the paint on the car on the face of your foam pad,. For example if you’re working on a single stage yellow paint system then you’ll see yellow paint on the face of your foam pad.

The important thing to understand is that as you work on the car with your polisher you’re going to be removing a little paint and there’s going to be used-up product and paint building-up on the face of the foam pad. It's important to clean this gunk off your pad often.

So the question is, how to you clean this gunk off the pad?



The answer is there’s a number of ways to clean your foam pad, the three most common are,
  • Pad Washer
  • Nylon Brush or Pad Cleaning Brush
  • Terry Cloth Towel
Out of the 3 options listed above, cleaning your pad on the fly is probably the most popular because it’s fast, and most people have a terry cloth towel in the linen closet that they can use to clean the pad.

The best way to clean a pad is with a pad washer but before you can use a pad washer you must first own one. Pad washers are worth their weight in gold if you buff cars out with any kind of regularity. If however you’re just buffing out your own personal cars, then chances are you don’t own a pad washer but chances are very good you do own a terry cloth towel or two that you can use to clean your pads on the fly.

Brushes work good if you’re using a rotary buffer but the only way you can use one with DA Polisher is to turn the polisher off, hold the polisher and pad in such a way that the pad won’t spin and then rub the brush over the face of the pad to scrape off the residue.

While this works, it means turning the polisher off, (now you're not buffing out the car, remember the time issue?) and grabbing your brush and then brushing the pad. Nothing wrong with this but when you consider how long it already takes to do the cleaning step, (about 4-6 hours for an average size car and that’s if your good at this and if you work fast and don’t take any breaks. So stopping the polisher and using a brush to clean the pad works but it’s not as fast or effective as using a terry cloth towel.

The whole idea and success behind the cleaning your pad on the fly technique is in that it allows you to clean your pad quickly, (that’s the on the fly part), and then quickly get back to work.

Again, buffing out an entire car using a dual action polisher from start to finish is an all day job. There is no time for lollygagging. If you lollygag or take long breaks, you either won’t get the job done in one day or you’ll sacrifice doing a quality job during the cleaning step in order to get to the waxing step so you can put the car back into service. :dunno:



So let’s take a look at how-to clean your pad on the fly

Cleaning your pad on the fly is where you take a terry cloth towel, usually a medium size hand towel works best, you fold it in two and then simply hold the towel against the face of the pad and then turn the polisher on and use your hand that’s holding the towel to push the towel into the foam. This will act to draw any excess liquid out of the foam and any excess residue off of the face of the pad.


This is me using the Clean your Pad on the Fly Technique to clean my pad on the fly as we removed the oxidation off this Neon.

EODodgeNeon010.jpg


EODodgeNeon011.jpg


EODodgeNeon012.jpg


EODodgeNeon013.jpg















After polishing a section of the trunk lid on Harvey,

Harvey.jpg



Max's classic 1964 Ford Falcon Future, we took a brand new 100% Cotton Terry Cloth Towel and held it against the face of the foam pad and then turned the polisher on and pushed and smooshed the towel against the pad for about 45 seconds or so and here are the results.

CleaningPadOnTheFly004.jpg


CleaningPadOnTheFly005.jpg




Question: Why use terry cloth instead of microfiber?

Answer: Great question!

100% cotton terry cloth is very good at absorbing liquid, so when you push the terry cloth into the foam the liquid in the foam will transfer into the terry cloth fibers through capillary action where the cotton fibers will more or less hold or trap the liquid inside of themselves.

There’s more to it than that however, the nap of terry cloth, that is the little cotton loops, will help to slice into the caked and gummy reside which will loosen its hold so the residue will transfer to the towel as well as some will fall to the ground.

Compared to most microfiber polishing cloths with a nap, not the type that has flat woven surface, the terry cloth nap, (the nap is the the little tiny loops of cotton fiber), is more stout and it’s this extra stoutness that enables a large, nap terry cloth towel to work better to break-up the residue on the pad.

So it’s both the absorbency of the cotton fibers plus the larger size of the cotton nap that together make a terry cloth towel better for cleaning your pad on the fly.

Does that make sense?

The nap of 100% Cotton Terry Cloth Toweling
TerryClothNap.jpg


Conversely, isn’t one of the reasons microfiber polishing cloths are so popular for wiping paint is because the fibers are microscopic in size and thus are more gentle to paint than larger cotton fibers? (The answer is “yes”)

You can use what you like and make up your own mind. Besides the case I’ve made above for using terry cloth another reason is to save your microfibers for where they excel best and that’s wiping residues off polished paint.

Some might also make the case that 100% cotton is better at absorbing while microfiber materials are better at adsorbing but that’s probably getting just a little too deep for what is actually a very simple method of cleaning your foam pads while buffing out a car.

Try both the next time you’re working on a car and come to your own conclusion but for me I’ll use terry cloth towels for removing residues off my pads and I’ll save my microfibers for carefully cleaning residues off paint.


Question: What about pad cleaning brushes?

Answer: I touched briefly on this above, but let's drill down a little deeper. Pad cleaning brushes or even a nylon toothbrush work great for cleaning residue off the face of a foam pad when the foam pad is on a rotary buffer but they don't work well at all when the pad is on a dual action polisher.

About the best you can hope for is to clean the very center of the pad when the tool is turned on but as you draw the bristles of the brush towards the outside of the pad the increased pressure over a small area, (the bristles of the brush pushing down on the foam), is enough pressure to engage the clutch in the tool and stop the pad from rotating.

The brush only cleans the pad if the pad is rotating. Thus brushes don't work well for cleaning pads on dual action polisher when you're trying to clean the pad while the polisher is turned on. Give it a try sometime and you'll see exactly what I mean.

For years when someone asks about the cheapie rotary buffers you can buy at Harbor Freight for buffing out paint, I would always mention that if nothing else, they make a great pad cleaner. That is take your dirty pads and one at a time place them on the backing plate of the rotary buffer and then use the rotary buffer to clean your pads. Rotary Buffers are direct drive tools and have a lot of power and a little brush held against the face of the pad isn't enough to slow the tool down so they work great for cleaning pads as well as removing a lot of paint quickly if you're using a RB to buff-out paint.




The cleaning your pad on the fly technique works well for all the popular dual action polishers on the market including,
  • Porter Cable 7424XP
  • Porter Cable 7424
  • Porter Cable 7336
  • Ultimate Detailing Machine – The first generation was Autopia’s design. The second generation is a re-badged Porter Cable 7424
  • Meguiar’s G100a – Re-badged Porter Cable 7424, came with a lifetime warranty
  • Meguiar's G100 – Re-badged Porter Cable 7424, came with a 1 year warranty.
  • Meguiar’s G110 – Meguiar’s design
  • Meguiar’s G220 – Meguiar’s design – 220 Volts
  • Griot’s Garage Professional Random Orbital Polisher – Griot’s design
Products mentioned

Dual Action Polishers
Porter Cable 7424XP
Meguiar’s G110
Griot’s Garage Professional Random Orbital Polisher

Pad Washers
System 2000 Pad Washer
autogeek_2069_56035322



Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
autogeek_2066_109373346



Pad Brushes

The Edge Foam Pad Conditioning Brush
autogeek_2066_96817874


Duo-Spur at Autogeek
duospur2.jpeg


Cobra Detailing Brush Kit
autogeek_2068_207913




Further Reading
Tips & Techniques for using the Porter Cable 7424XP


Resources
Autogeek Online Detailing Forum
Autogeek Online Store

:xyxthumbs:
 
Also, this question was recently asked on our Youtube channel here,


One-on-One Detailing Class - How to detail a car
[video=youtube_share;3xJH_MGgbLw&hd=1"]ONLINE DETAILING CLASS[/video]


The above video by the way is VERY inclusive, it shows more than just how to address RIDS, Random Isolated Deeper Scratches, it covers everything you want to do to buff out a car using a dual action polisher including,


  • RIDS - Random Isolated Deeper Scratches
  • Removing watches and any jewelery
  • Using a DA Polisher without the handle
  • Placing cord over shoulder
  • Priming the pad on a DA Polisher
  • Speed settings for removing isolated defects
  • Downward pressure needed for removing isolated defects
  • How to clean a pad on the fly
  • Where and why to mark your backing plate with a black mark
  • Rotating the body of the tool to keep the pad flat to a panel
  • Why to allow the pad to stop spinning before lifting the pad off the paint
  • How to swap backing plates from a 3.5" to a 5"
  • Machine waxing using 5.5" Hydro-Tech Crimson Finishing pads with Menzerna Power Lock
  • The "Kissing the Finish" Technique
  • How to do the Swipe Test to check if a wax or paint sealant is dry
  • How to remove dried paint sealant using a microfiber bonnet on a dry pad on a DA Polisher
  • How to clean a microfiber bonnet on the fly with your fingernails
  • How to apply a paste wax by machine - Souveran Paste Wax
  • How to carefully wipe a WOWO wax off by hand using Microfiber Gloves and plush Microfiber Towels
  • How and why to fold a microfiber towel 4-ways to wipe wax off
  • How to break-open a coat of wax and then creep out to carefully wipe off a coating of wax
  • How to do the "Final Wipe"



Here's the question asked in context of the above video buffing out a Corvette.


How often do you typically do the 'on the fly' pad clean?

The first time it looks like you do it right after you finish the first scratch, but the second time you make a comment like "since we've already cleaned this pad", even though you did previously do one section again. Is there a good way to tell when it's necessary?


Here's the answered I posted...

Mike Phillips said:
Common question. In a PERFECT world you clean your pad on the fly after each section you buff. By doing this you remove both spent product and removed paint. If you don’t clean your pad after buffing a section then you’re adding fresh product to a dirty pad and buffing the next section with all this gunk. In the REAL world, I clean my pad every other section. –Mike Phillips



Check the video out, lots of info, like going to an ONLINE Dual Action Polisher Class.


:xyxthumbs:
 
My terry cloth towels lint like crazy.
Is that normal?


Are they new?

Are they inexpensive?


Regardless, doesn't matter. IF you're doing correction work lint will be less aggressive than your cutting pad and abrasives being used.

Just do your best to dust them off and after you wash your tc towels enough they'll stop linting, unless they're really inexpensive.


I think mine are Martex brand from Costco, I get them at the gym where I work out.


:)
 
WOW you guys are great! I guess I was just too saturated to find the ON THE FLY info last night. I'll catch up on all the feedback I got today.

swanicyouth...just for the record I am about to purchase a DA polisher (probably the Harbor Freight 6 inch or the PC). I referred to a FORD FLEX (car) in my post, not the Flex polisher.
 
Yes they are new.
Got a pack of 20 from home depot for $15.
Not that cheap.

Are they new?

Are they inexpensive?


Regardless, doesn't matter. IF you're doing correction work lint will be less aggressive than your cutting pad and abrasives being used.

Just do your best to dust them off and after you wash your tc towels enough they'll stop linting, unless they're really inexpensive.


I think mine are Martex brand from Costco, I get them at the gym where I work out.


:)
 
WOW you guys are great! I guess I was just too saturated to find the ON THE FLY info last night.


That's the way we roll on this forum...



Yes they are new.
Got a pack of 20 from home depot for $15.
Not that cheap.


New towles will tend to lint as the loose fibers fall off or pull off when you clean your pad on the fly. They should "clean-up" after you wash them a few times.


:)
 
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