Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
That "Grabby" feel - Thin vs Thick MF pads on Dual Action Polishers
This topic comes up enough that I wanted to slice out a portion of one of our extreme makeovers to created a dedicated article for every time this topic comes up in the future.
That and today I'm talking to a guy in Norway on my Facebook page about which type of pad to use with the Rupes polishers.
Preface
Meguiar's really changed the way we look at polishing paint with dual action polishers when they introduced their DA Microfiber Correction System.
As I say in the video to Jason Rose and Mike Pennington,
It use to be we looked at microfiber as something we wipe products off the surface of paint and now we're using it to apply products to paint.
So in that context, it was a real game changer, that and enough correction ability to change the production detailing world from always relying on rotary buffers for swirling out cars.
Also, keep in and keep in mind this video was shot back in 2010 and the system was introduced at SEMA this same year. We posted the DA Microfiber Correction System video we shot here at Autogeek in February of 2011.
Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction System
So that's a condensed history of where the microfiber pad came from. Since then other companies have introduced pads, but so far, no "system".
Using Microfiber Pads on Forced Rotation Dual Action Polishers
Thin is in...
That's a saying I coined a few years ago to point out that thin pads work better on tools like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's and Griot's dual action polishers and it's true. It's because thick pads tend to absorb and dissipate the energy that comes out of these types of tools and this shows up as a loss of pad rotation during correction and polishing steps.
Fact is, paint is removed best when a pad is rotating over the surface and not just jiggling or vibrating against the paint although I've seen a handful of people try to convince themselves and others this works.
So thin pads work better on dual action polishers than thick pads. You want proof? Look how thin the Meguiar's Microfiber cutting discs are, you know the discs that are responsible for doing the heavy correction step.
Here's the deal though, while thin pads work great on tools with a Free Rotating Spindle Bearing design, when you try to use thin pads on a forced rotation, forced oscillation tool like the Flex 3401 the feeling is grabby.
That is it feels like the pad is grabbing the paint and in turn, the tool then grabs or jerks your arms around and most people don't like how this buffing experience feels. Count me as one of them.
Thick Microfiber Pads
The grabby characteristic is not an issue with the Flex 3401 when you use a microfiber pad with a thicker foam backing. The thicker foam enables a smoother buffing action between the paint surface and the surface of the microfiber pad.
I figured this out when the Lake Country Microfiber pads were first sent out pre-production for field testing.
That's where the below thread comes in. I already knew this but I wanted a few others guys I trust and that are experienced behind all types of polishers to do some side-by-side testing with the,
So below I've dissected the pertinent portions out of a write-up I created for a cool car we buffed out here at Autogeek.
2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover
Test Spot - Comparing Thin vs Thick Lake Country Microfiber Pads
Next up we did some testing and I had Robert and Paul compare the Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on identical tools, the Flex 3401.
The difference was that one polisher had the THICK LC Ultra Microfiber Pad and the other polisher had the THIN Ultra Microfiber Pad.
If you want to know which one works best I'll let you post the question and I'll let Robert and Paul tell you their opinioins...
After some testing we buffed out the car using Menzerna SI 1500 with Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on both the Flex 3401 and the Griot's DA Polisher and then followed that using Lake Country 5.5" white foam polishing pads with Menzerna SF 4000 and then sealed the paint using Menzerna Color Lock machine applied using Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pads on Griot's DA Polishers.
Here's Robert testing out the thick LC Ultra MF Pads and Paul testing out the thin LC Ultra MF Pads
Robert is very good behind any polisher and always focuses on using good technique...
Look at the THICK foam core for this MF Pad...
Below is the thin MF pad as the foam core is much thinner than the thicker version...
NOTE: The linting is normal when breaking in a new LC Ultra Microfiber Pad
Then I had both guys switch keeping all other variables the same except the thickness and thinness of the foam backing of the pads.
Robert with the thin pad...
Paul with the thick pad...
And here's what Paul and Robert thought after trying both style pads on the Flex 3401
So if you're trying to decide which microfiber pads to use with your Flex 3401, I'd recommend microfiber pads with a thicker foam backing as the buffing experience will be one similar to using foam pads, that is the pads will tend to glide over the surface instead of grab the surface.
On Autogeek.net
Lake Country Thick Core Ultra Microfiber Pads
And of course... the car came out beautiful...
This topic comes up enough that I wanted to slice out a portion of one of our extreme makeovers to created a dedicated article for every time this topic comes up in the future.
That and today I'm talking to a guy in Norway on my Facebook page about which type of pad to use with the Rupes polishers.
Preface
Meguiar's really changed the way we look at polishing paint with dual action polishers when they introduced their DA Microfiber Correction System.
As I say in the video to Jason Rose and Mike Pennington,
It use to be we looked at microfiber as something we wipe products off the surface of paint and now we're using it to apply products to paint.
So in that context, it was a real game changer, that and enough correction ability to change the production detailing world from always relying on rotary buffers for swirling out cars.
Also, keep in and keep in mind this video was shot back in 2010 and the system was introduced at SEMA this same year. We posted the DA Microfiber Correction System video we shot here at Autogeek in February of 2011.
Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction System
So that's a condensed history of where the microfiber pad came from. Since then other companies have introduced pads, but so far, no "system".
Using Microfiber Pads on Forced Rotation Dual Action Polishers
Thin is in...
That's a saying I coined a few years ago to point out that thin pads work better on tools like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's and Griot's dual action polishers and it's true. It's because thick pads tend to absorb and dissipate the energy that comes out of these types of tools and this shows up as a loss of pad rotation during correction and polishing steps.
Fact is, paint is removed best when a pad is rotating over the surface and not just jiggling or vibrating against the paint although I've seen a handful of people try to convince themselves and others this works.
So thin pads work better on dual action polishers than thick pads. You want proof? Look how thin the Meguiar's Microfiber cutting discs are, you know the discs that are responsible for doing the heavy correction step.
Here's the deal though, while thin pads work great on tools with a Free Rotating Spindle Bearing design, when you try to use thin pads on a forced rotation, forced oscillation tool like the Flex 3401 the feeling is grabby.
That is it feels like the pad is grabbing the paint and in turn, the tool then grabs or jerks your arms around and most people don't like how this buffing experience feels. Count me as one of them.
Thick Microfiber Pads
The grabby characteristic is not an issue with the Flex 3401 when you use a microfiber pad with a thicker foam backing. The thicker foam enables a smoother buffing action between the paint surface and the surface of the microfiber pad.
I figured this out when the Lake Country Microfiber pads were first sent out pre-production for field testing.
That's where the below thread comes in. I already knew this but I wanted a few others guys I trust and that are experienced behind all types of polishers to do some side-by-side testing with the,
- Same tool
- Same product
- Same car
- Different pads - Thin and Thick versions of the same pad
So below I've dissected the pertinent portions out of a write-up I created for a cool car we buffed out here at Autogeek.
2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover
Test Spot - Comparing Thin vs Thick Lake Country Microfiber Pads
Next up we did some testing and I had Robert and Paul compare the Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on identical tools, the Flex 3401.
The difference was that one polisher had the THICK LC Ultra Microfiber Pad and the other polisher had the THIN Ultra Microfiber Pad.
If you want to know which one works best I'll let you post the question and I'll let Robert and Paul tell you their opinioins...
After some testing we buffed out the car using Menzerna SI 1500 with Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on both the Flex 3401 and the Griot's DA Polisher and then followed that using Lake Country 5.5" white foam polishing pads with Menzerna SF 4000 and then sealed the paint using Menzerna Color Lock machine applied using Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pads on Griot's DA Polishers.
Here's Robert testing out the thick LC Ultra MF Pads and Paul testing out the thin LC Ultra MF Pads
Robert is very good behind any polisher and always focuses on using good technique...
Look at the THICK foam core for this MF Pad...
Below is the thin MF pad as the foam core is much thinner than the thicker version...
NOTE: The linting is normal when breaking in a new LC Ultra Microfiber Pad
Then I had both guys switch keeping all other variables the same except the thickness and thinness of the foam backing of the pads.
Robert with the thin pad...
Paul with the thick pad...
And here's what Paul and Robert thought after trying both style pads on the Flex 3401
So if you're trying to decide which microfiber pads to use with your Flex 3401, I'd recommend microfiber pads with a thicker foam backing as the buffing experience will be one similar to using foam pads, that is the pads will tend to glide over the surface instead of grab the surface.
On Autogeek.net
Lake Country Thick Core Ultra Microfiber Pads
And of course... the car came out beautiful...
