The GG polisher is as good as the 3401?

O.C.Detailing said:
Unfortunately, you're wrong. I work side by side with VR8 on a daily basis and his Flex corrects no better OR faster than my Griot's.

They are in the same league and they both perform equally. They both just have their little quirks that need to be "worked out" with experience.

You apparently have failed to notice that I have 5-6 months of side-by-side comparison work between the Griot's and Flex and that I am perfectly capable of gauging whether the Flex is better than my Griot's or not and I"m telling you that it isn't.

If the flex had a faster rotation, then it would be in a different class, but due to the design, and the fact that it DOESN'T have faster rotational speeds, it is right on-par with the performance and corrective ability of the Griot's.
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Adrock...err I mean O.C., I've read this post a few times just to be sure what I'm reading is right but from what I can see, you say the GG is at least as good as the Flex? I'll admit it, when I started this thread I was expecting a bunch of "You're a moron kbohip, the Flex 3401 is a far superior machine to the GG!" Instead it seems to have taken a very GG friendly tone, in the Flex section no less! I wasn't expecting this. I figured that with the Flex being priced at least $170.00 more than the GG, the Flex would obviously be a much better, higher quality, faster correcting, and just overall generally better machine than the GG. Now I really don't know what to think.

There seems to be a grey area that the GG is occupying. People have told me that unless I'm a professional detailer, the Flex is overkill. Others have said that the Flex is worth the money over the GG and is priced accordingly. Still others have said that since I already own a rotary, there's no need for the Flex's capabilities at all. Now I read your post and it seems as if the Flex has become redundant, outdated and out priced even by the GG. Can this be true?
 
kbohip said:
Adrock...err I mean O.C., I've read this post a few times just to be sure what I'm reading is right but from what I can see, you say the GG is at least as good as the Flex? I'll admit it, when I started this thread I was expecting a bunch of "You're a moron kbohip, the Flex 3401 is a far superior machine to the GG!" Instead it seems to have taken a very GG friendly tone, in the Flex section no less! I wasn't expecting this. I figured that with the Flex being priced at least $170.00 more than the GG, the Flex would obviously be a much better, higher quality, faster correcting, and just overall generally better machine than the GG. Now I really don't know what to think.

There seems to be a grey area that the GG is occupying. People have told me that unless I'm a professional detailer, the Flex is overkill. Others have said that the Flex is worth the money over the GG and is priced accordingly. Still others have said that since I already own a rotary, there's no need for the Flex's capabilities at all. Now I read your post and it seems as if the Flex has become redundant, outdated and out priced even by the GG. Can this be true?
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KBOHIP,

The Flex has a place in the DA lineup and is a VERY high-quality machine. It will not correct better or faster than my GG, but does offer a more consistent correction being as you can always rely on the pad rotating at a constant speed because of the forced rotation and oscillation.

The griot's is a very POWERFUL machine, which gives it the correction ability of the Flex but, because it is an actual free-spinning DA without forced rotation or oscillation, it's use and correction ability relies on the person using the machine in such a way that the pad and assembly rotate as constantly as possible without allowing the pad to stop rotating.

The raw power of the motor in the Griot's gives it the ability to remove defects and correct and even refine automotive clear as quickly as the flex, but requires that the person using it know how to keep the pad rotating without allowing it to stop often, where as, with the Flex, you don't even have to worry about stopping the pad from rotating or oscillating due to the forced rotation.

Go with the Flex if money is not a factor. It is the better of the two machines in that it removes the user-variable from the correction factor.

If money is an issue, then go with the Griot's, but know that you'll have to learn how to keep the pad rotating with experience. The Griot's has the ability to spin the pad MUCH faster than the Flex, but the Flex has forced rotation which never allows the pad to stop spinning or oscillating regardless of the pressure you apply or the angle at which you're using the polisher on.

Hope that helps.
 
The flex may have slightly less vibrations, but you're constantly fighting the machine as you would a rotary. Not only that, but the flex actually rotates the OPPOSITE direction of any other machine therefore having a bit more of a learning curve over all other machines.
 
ZoranC,

Where do you post pictures of your work? I would love to see some samples.

Thank you,
Mike
 
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Like I stated before, this is not a pissing contest. If you like it, then stick with it. I love my flex and have no reason to switch. There are opinions about everything, which is fine. Mine is better than yours gets real agravating.
 
I havent used the GG but I have the Flex and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE it!!! Im a pretty skeptical person when it comes to stuff like that but I bit the bullet and now im a die hard Flex fan.
 
I love both machines. If I had $300 that I could spare, I would use it to buy a Flex and use my Griot's as a backup. Being as money is an issue, I went with the Griot's that gives the same correction but requires some finessing to achieve the same results that the Flex gives without that same finesse, but you must be a bit more careful as the flex is more prone to damaging paint than the Griot's would be due to the fact that you can't stop the pad from rotating.

No one is trying to make anyone change from a Flex to a Griot's, just giving my experience as I've worked side by side with another detailer using a Flex for about 6 months now and feel I've got enough experience to give an accurate comparison between the two machines.
 
CEE DOG said:
KBOHIP, you should also not discount 2 important factors. The Flex runs very smooth compared to the vibration of the GG and the controls are placed in a much more user friendly way.
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:iagree:

What he said! The progressive trigger and trigger lock on the Flex coupled with a speed dial conveniently placed makes the Flex much more user friendly than any other DA, IMO. I'm not sure where the speed selector dial is on the GG v2 but on the 110v2 and PC they're in about the stupidest place they coulda put 'em. I have to wonder if everyone is copying each other or whether the PC-type manufacturers never heard or ergonomics.

TL
 
The power button on the Griot's is great for right-handed people, but kind of awkward for lefties like me. The soft-off feature of the Griot's is really nice as you only need to touch the off switch very slightly to turn the machine off. The speed dial is on the bottom of the unit where the power cord enters the machine, but there have been absolutely no issues with increasing or decreasing the machines speed at all. Yes, the dial on the flex is more convenient, but not a deciding factor on whether you should get it over the GG or not. Just saying though.
 
Mikejl said:
ZoranC,

Where do you post pictures of your work? I would love to see some samples.

Thank you,
Mike
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Pictures of _which_ work of mine? Database administration? Sorry, that I can not take pictures of. My work in photography? They are at ZArt.zenfolio.com. My detailing? Next to nowhere.
 
O.C.Detailing said:
VR8 and I work together and he uses the Flex and I use the new Griot's. My machine is more powerful and I get better defect removal, but his machine is more refined and leaves less marring.
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You claim the GG is more powerful. Could you explain how you came to that conclusion? Here are the specs for both machines.

Flex - 900w motor @ 9600rpm w/.31 stroke
GG - 850w motor @ 6800rpm w/.31 stroke

Koz
 
Koz said:
You claim the GG is more powerful. Could you explain how you came to that conclusion? Here are the specs for both machines.

Flex - 900w motor @ 9600rpm w/.31 stroke
GG - 850w motor @ 6800rpm w/.31 stroke

Koz
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Besides what's on paper, my guess is he's basing his opinion on his experience and we're okay with that.

I've posted numerous times that the Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher, the current one they sell, works effectively like a rotary buffer. That's my opinion based upon over 22 years of using a rotary buffer.

Here's the forum rules,

Forum Rules


I don't mind people "talking" about topics or sharing friendly opinion but anything that even hints at combative and I'll nip it in the bud ASAP.

:props:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Besides what's on paper, my guess is he's basing his opinion on his experience and we're okay with that.

I've posted numerous times that the Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher, the current one they sell, works effectively like a rotary buffer. That's my opinion based upon over 22 years of using a rotary buffer.

Here's the forum rules,

Forum Rules


I don't mind people "talking" about topics or sharing friendly opinion but anything that even hints at combative and I'll nip it in the bud ASAP.

:props:
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I'm not sure why you feel there is any kind of combative nature to my post. First off, I'm a noob here and to the detailing world so you may have posted hundreds of times about many different subjects that a noob has never read. I am however a motorhead and car fanatic. I also am a member of many other car/motorcycle forums (for many years). This is the first time I have been threatened for asking a question. The reason I asked the question is simply because I'm interested in purchasing the RR and the post from O.C. Detailing brought up an opinion that is very different from anyone else’s and did not add up. Because I had already did research on all the ROs on the market, this post did not make sense. I am not a troll or looking for any kind of confrontation. The fact is, I think there is a mistake in your data concerning the Flex 3401. This therefore led to the misconception of the power of the Flex. Anyway, I will address this with the OP.

I feel that you jumped the gun a little and the appropriate response would have been to send me a PM, to clear this up. I apologize if you (And/or the OP) felt there was a combative tone to my post; again I felt I was missing something and that I may have not comprehended the data on these machines.

Koz
 
Here's the deal Koz,

Lately there's been some passionate and heated discussions over tools and while the passion is great, the heat isn't.

All I'm doing is reminding everyone, not just you, to discuss as much as you want the benefits and features of a tool but be mindful of the forum rules. Sometimes when I post something, it's to a wider audience than just the members active in the forum.

I should have made my post about the forum rules without your quote in my reply. In the last few months we've had some threads over tools and opinions on tool get out of control, so I have to remind everyone of the forum rules as a pro-active way to remind everyone to just keep their posts reasonable.

I'm all for gathering information and if there's a mistake in any of my data or any data on our website then I'm all for pro-actively correcting it.

Thank you.

:)
 
To put this in terms easier to understand, I've used both machines and I've seen the difference in correcting power between them for quite a while. The Griots spins faster and has more OPMs than the flex that you can feel while you're using it. Due to those two factors, it does in fact correct better on flat panels or areas where the pad is not prevented from spinning. Edges are another matter and that is where the flex shines. Not only that, but the forced, controlled rpm and opm of the flex gives it very predictable results since no amount of pressure or angle fluctuations will change it's ability to correct. They are both amazing machines, but the Griot's has more correction ability and versatility compared to the flex. We won't even comment on the cost factor either.

Bottom line is you can't go wrong with either machine.
 
Oh! The 900 watts you posted is input power of the flex, not output power. 900w equates to 7.5 amps, but it's output power is only 590w.

Found that info here: Flex XC 3401 VRG Review.

I'm assuming the power loss is due to friction caused by the gear assembly in the head of the flex, the same reason there is a big loss in power with an awd car due to drivetrain friction and such.
 
O.C.Detailing said:
your numbers are wrong sir. Read this post:http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...se-right-polisher-your-detailing-project.html

go down a bit and you'll see that the griot's also has more overall power on paper and in person. ;)
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I'd like to first say that in no way do I think that your personal opinion on the GG is wrong, everyone has an opinion that is based on their personal experience and (To me) this is the most important opinion a person can have. I do however feel that there is a mistake on the post that you cited. The manufacture (Flex) rates the motor for the 3401 at 900w not 590w. I think what happened was the output wattage of the Flex and the input wattage of the GG was listed in the post (should have been input on both). Also in the post (you cited) there is an amp rating of 7.5. This alone should have raised a flag. How could a motor that draws 7.5 amps be rated at less watts then a motor that is rated at 7 amps (With the same volts applied)?

Based on Ohms Law I=W/V

Flex – 900w/120v = 7.5amps
GG – 850w/120v = 7.0amps

This being said, I think (On paper) the Flex is more powerful. Also the Flex has forced rotation (up to 480rpm) which should equate to a little more friction which could make a difference in the actual performance of the machine. Unless I’m reading the data wrong, on paper, the GG is the most powerful RO, other then the 3401. I personally think (based on data) the GG would be the best bang for the buck RO.

Koz
 
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