The Rotary 101

ELGreco

ELGreco

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Lately I have been browsing around on YouTube and forums and viewing videos and write ups and I see all theses "Professional Detailers" spending countless hours/days correcting paint (leveling paint) on vehicles using DA Polishers and running through countless pads and using this and that and I sit here and wonder how do theses guys make money? To me a rotary is king! Nothing is going to level Paint faster then a rotary and I would love anyone to argue that with me... so my question is if theses guys are professionals why not just pick up a rotary and turn your 50 hour paint correction into a 4 hour in and out just as good maybe not for your write up or your video or Instagram or whatever but at the end of the day it should come down to being a profitable in and out on to the next detailer... I think this new generation is scared of the rotary and it's just hurting theses guys pockets... we need to bring the rotary back! Yes the da is good for finishing but we are not talking about finishing we are talking about leveling paint (correction) and then finishing with a da... don't let all the hype/internet destroy the most profitable/needed tool in the industry!!


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ELGreco said:
Lately I have been browsing around on YouTube and forums and viewing videos and write ups and I see all theses "Professional Detailers" spending countless hours/days correcting paint (leveling paint) on vehicles using DA Polishers and running through countless pads and using this and that and I sit here and wonder how do theses guys make money? To me a rotary is king! Nothing is going to level Paint faster then a rotary and I would love anyone to argue that with me... so my question is if theses guys are professionals why not just pick up a rotary and turn your 50 hour paint correction into a 4 hour in and out just as good maybe not for your write up or your video or Instagram or whatever but at the end of the day it should come down to being a profitable in and out on to the next detailer... I think this new generation is scared of the rotary and it's just hurting theses guys pockets... we need to bring the rotary back! Yes the da is good for finishing but we are not talking about finishing we are talking about leveling paint (correction) and then finishing with a da... don't let all the hype/internet destroy the most profitable/needed tool in the industry!!


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Click to expand...

As a rotary user for 28 years now I'll agree to disagree. I'll agree that the rotary can cut super fast when equipped with a twisted wool pad and heavy compound, but the finish it leaves behind will require far more work to refine then say a DA with a MF pad and that same compound. Now if you put the same foam pad on the rotary and a 21mm DA tool using the same compound and the results will be very similar both cut and finish.

At the end of the day, the DA is simply safer, easier, and there is no risk of holograms. Based on all the scary images we see posted daily, there is definitely no shortage of rotary users that "think" they no how to finish with a rotary.

I love my rotary polishers but they've honesty taken a back seat to the DA on the majority of the work I do.

Just my $.02
 
RaskyR1 said:
As a rotary user for 28 years now I'll agree to disagree. I'll agree that the rotary can cut super fast when equipped with a twisted wool pad and heavy compound, but the finish it leaves behind will require far more work to refine then say a DA with a MF pad and that same compound. Now if you put the same foam pad on the rotary and a 21mm DA tool using the same compound and the results will be very similar both cut and finish.

At the end of the day, the DA is simply safer, easier, and there is no risk of holograms. Based on all the scary images we see posted daily, there is definitely no shortage of rotary users that "think" they no how to finish with a rotary.

I love my rotary polishers but they've honesty taken a back seat to the DA on the majority of the work I do.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...

I'm going to strongly disagree a 21 is never going to cut as fast as a rotary, a rotary will cut 10x if not more times faster then any DA... guys spend hours working on panels with there 21s when you can bring out a rotary with a wool pad and level the paint 10 times faster then bring out a da for finishing and you drastically cut time and to me end up with cleaner and better results. Yes it's dangers you can burn thro paint but you can burn thro paint with a 21 too! Any tool you need to be safe with! But the industry has scared the new comer away from the rotary and learning how to properly use one causing them to be less profitable and waste more time correcting paint!


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I grew up using a rotary thus likely why I love my Flex 3401. I agree that a rotary can cut fast and has it's place, but honestly it's far easier to screw up even in the hands of a solid user.

That said, working on customer cars, that's not a risk even I'm going to take. Too many unknowns in terms of what paint is on the car, the condition of it, etc. that expose me to potentially causing an issue that even when I'm right I'm wrong.

The Flex 3401 with Purple wool and a good appropriate compound speeds through corrections with ease and finishes out excellent. The only need is to then go over the car with a few passes and some polish to achieve perfection.

IMO if I can get a sedan done in 5- 7hrs that's great time and good money per hour based on my rates. Lots of variables here but in the end, it's about dollars per hour when it comes to profitability. Key always is meeting or exceeding customer expectations of course too.


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pdqgp said:
I grew up using a rotary thus likely why I love my Flex 3401. I agree that a rotary can cut fast and has it's place, but honestly it's far easier to screw up even in the hands of a solid user.

That said, working on customer cars, that's not a risk even I'm going to take. Too many unknowns in terms of what paint is on the car, the condition of it, etc. that expose me to potentially causing an issue that even when I'm right I'm wrong.

The Flex 3401 with Purple wool and a good appropriate compound speeds through corrections with ease and finishes out excellent. The only need is to then go over the car with a few passes and some polish to achieve perfection.

IMO if I can get a sedan done in 5- 7hrs that's great time and good money per hour based on my rates. Lots of variables here but in the end, it's about dollars per hour when it comes to profitability. Key always is meeting or exceeding customer expectations of course too.


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I can agree with the dollar per hour, but honestly how many of theses average good detailers out here are going to stay busy and be profitable while getting customers to pay them $75.00 an hour on 24+ hour jobs? Lol


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Just depends on...


Just depends on what you're trying to do...

My class is going to wetsand a 1955 Nomad in the class this weekend. To remove the sanding marks the fastest and key word - most effectively - they will use the FLEX PE14 rotary polisher.

Here's the thread I created to document the cars used for this class

Training Cars for the September 2017 Competition Ready Detailing Class at Autogeek with Mike Phillips


Here's the wetsanding project car

Sept_2017_Class_004.jpg




The rotary buffer takes the most muscle and energy over time to operate and control. Even with smaller pads it still requires more muscle in the legs, lower back, shoulders, stomach and arms. So if you want a good physical work out it's the best tool. If you don't want to beat yourself up for 4-8 hours then an orbital is less wear-n-tear on you physically.

I still have my original rotary buffer from 1987. It has a home in the center of my antique car wax collection as it fed me and paid the bills for years. Nothing wrong with rotary but there's also nothing wrong wit orbitals. I just depends on what you want to do and what you're working on.


:)
 
ELGreco said:
I'm going to strongly disagree a 21 is never going to cut as fast as a rotary, a rotary will cut 10x if not more times faster then any DA... guys spend hours working on panels with there 21s when you can bring out a rotary with a wool pad and level the paint 10 times faster then bring out a da for finishing and you drastically cut time and to me end up with cleaner and better results. Yes it's dangers you can burn thro paint but you can burn thro paint with a 21 too! Any tool you need to be safe with! But the industry has scared the new comer away from the rotary and learning how to properly use one causing them to be less profitable and waste more time correcting paint!


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Click to expand...

10x??? I'd say you clearly haven't spent much time with a DA if you think the rotary is anywhere near 10X faster.

Here is an example of a body shop removing wet sanding marks on the right with a rotary and twisted wool pad vs. me removing wet sanding marks on the left with a 21mm DA and a MF finishing pad. While I may have spend a little longer compounding, I didn't need an intermediate step to refine the harsh finish left behind from the rotary wool pad. So in the end I finished down perfectly with 2 steps vs. 3 or 4 that would have been needed on the rotary.










FWIW, I prefer to remove wet sanding marks via rotary, this car was just used as an example of doing it with a DA though I did still used the rotary on a few areas.
 
ELGreco said:
I'm going to strongly disagree a 21 is never going to cut as fast as a rotary, a rotary will cut 10x if not more times faster then any DA... guys spend hours working on panels with there 21s when you can bring out a rotary with a wool pad and level the paint 10 times faster then bring out a da for finishing and you drastically cut time and to me end up with cleaner and better results. Yes it's dangers you can burn thro paint but you can burn thro paint with a 21 too! Any tool you need to be safe with! But the industry has scared the new comer away from the rotary and learning how to properly use one causing them to be less profitable and waste more time correcting paint!


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Click to expand...


I dont think you have any experience with 21mm DA’s if you think a rotary corrects 10x faster. I have a Rupes MKII 21 that corrects faster than my Flex PE-14 using the same foam pads and compounds. I don’t think a rotary corrects 10x faster than a PC24 either, 3x yeah maybe. I enjoy using a rotary as its still the smoothest,quietest polisher there is but since Rupes MKII 21, its no longer the king, theres a new king on the throne now, times have changed.
 
I own just about every polisher on the market

View attachment 60305

60305d1506444795-rotary-101-img5685.jpg



My 21 and 15 and FR

I know exactly what I'm talking about but that's just me I'm sure more agree with me then disagree there is actually a whole podcast interview with Jimbo of autodetailingpodcast that is based on all what I'm talking about, you guys should listen too it and your take in some more knowledge, don't be scared of the rotary!


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Ronin47 said:
I dont think you have any experience with 21mm DA’s if you think a rotary corrects 10x faster. I have a Rupes MKII 21 that corrects faster than my Flex PE-14 using the same foam pads and compounds. I don’t think a rotary corrects 10x faster than a PC24 either, 3x yeah maybe. I enjoy using a rotary as its still the smoothest,quietest polisher there is but since Rupes MKII 21, its no longer the king, theres a new king on the throne now, times have changed.
Click to expand...

And if you think a rotary is the smoothest then I'm sorry but you have no experience using a rotary there buddy


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And to anyone that thinks I'm downing the DA you got me wrong the statement is that the rotary levels paint faster then any other machine out there... I use DA's all day long but for correction work I always start with my rotary first and then finish with my da.


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RaskyR1 said:
10x??? I'd say you clearly haven't spent much time with a DA if you think the rotary is anywhere near 10X faster.

Here is an example of a body shop removing wet sanding marks on the right with a rotary and twisted wool pad vs. me removing wet sanding marks on the left with a 21mm DA and a MF finishing pad. While I may have spend a little longer compounding, I didn't need an intermediate step to refine the harsh finish left behind from the rotary wool pad. So in the end I finished down perfectly with 2 steps vs. 3 or 4 that would have been needed on the rotary.










FWIW, I prefer to remove wet sanding marks via rotary, this car was just used as an example of doing it with a DA though I did still used the rotary on a few areas.
Click to expand...

It's obvious the person using the rotary in this photo had no idea how to use a rotary


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@ELGreco. What are a couple of your favorite go to compounds & polishes when using the rotary these days?
 
ELGreco said:
Um... a dual action polisher... lol...


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Attempting humour by inserting a “lol” doesn’t deter from the fact that you can’t back up your statement. Once again a friendly reminder as you seem to be avoiding answering a question based on your statement. Whats smoother than a rotary? Lets not digress, please enlighten us all.
 
For me the the rotary is faster than a 21 as an isolated single step, but when I pick up the rotary I have already committed to 3 steps to get my desired finish.

For 2 steps it is almost always a DA with a few exceptions.

If one compounding set with the 21 doesn't remove enough, I will grab the rotary. Rotary --> DA --> DA

I've often thought of the irony of how many say the rotary is dangerous, but then seek a DA combination that cuts as fast as rotary. Ironic, but it makes sense in that you can often finish in 2 steps rather than 3 or more.
 
Ronin47 said:
Attempting humour by inserting a “lol” doesn’t deter from the fact that you can’t back up your statement. Once again a friendly reminder as you seem to be avoiding answering a question based on your statement. Whats smoother than a rotary? Lets not digress, please enlighten us all.
Click to expand...

Dude a dual action is smoother then a rotary everyone knows that bro that's part of what makes DA polishers so great there light weight,smoother, and less risk of burn through... what are you talking about


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ELGreco said:
Dude a dual action is smoother then a rotary everyone knows that bro that's part of what makes DA polishers so great there light weight,smoother, and less risk of burn through... what are you talking about


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Click to expand...

I own the entire Rupes and Flex Detailing range along with some rebranded Chinese polishers and can testify the Rupes to be the smoothest DA’s viz. the Duetto and 15MKII and even they don’t compare to circular/rotary polishers in being absolutely vibration free. Currently the Flex PE-14 takes no.1 spot for being the quietest and smoothest polisher up until from what I have read the Rupes LH19E to be even quieter and smoother than that. My Mille and 19E should arrive in a couple of weeks till then I shall reserve judgement.
 
Just to chime in...

Let's keep it respectful.


Everyone has a "system" that works best for them. I think a true professional is a person that has the skill, knowledge and experience to be able to adjust on the fly and use the best tool and the right tool for the job.


:)
 
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