The Rotary 101

RaskyR1 said:
I will agree the example was a bit extreme and probably not the best, but it's all I had on hand. Knowing how body shops are it was likely more of a result of a dirty pad used over and over again and a nasty compound. My intent definitely wasn't to scare users away from the rotary and I actually believe every detailer should know how to use one.

I believe once you start getting into the "foamed wool" pad territory the rotary speed advantage in cut over the long throw and a MF pad is all but gone, and yes, the marks foamed wool leaves behind in the paint are easily removed. However, with a true twisted wool cutting pad you have a noticeably faster cut but I still feel the marring in the paint left behind is deeper then it would be with the same compound on a MF pad and the long throw, and I also like to run the rotary around 600-1200 rpms for compounding. Granted the improvements in compounds over the years haven definitely reduced the severity of the marring and it significantly better then the old 3M rocks in a bottle or bucket cut was, but the twisted wool cutting pad still leave a deeper defect in the paint. The actual paint type obviously plays a role too.

I was actually doing some testing a few weeks ago with a new compound and the car below needed to be wet sanded, so it made for a good test subject. After testing I ended up using the rotary with a Megs Solo wool cutting pad and M100 to remove the sanding marks due to the hardness of the paint and some of the panel shapes. The marring that step left behind was noticeably deeper then M100 and the other 3 compounds I tested with MF pads on the long throw. It also required an intermediate step to properly finish down where the DA and MF compounded areas did not.

As far as the heat goes, well that's going to depend on technique but the rotary is more capable of generating higher heat. I will agree wool pads tend to run cool though and I feel they're a great starting pad for new users as they don't have tendency to grab and hop like some of the foam pads can.

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Im not going to chime in on this thread... but Rasky,You need to try Richard Lins wool pad on the 21mm
 
RaskyR1 said:
I will agree the example was a bit extreme and probably not the best, but it's all I had on hand. Knowing how body shops are it was likely more of a result of a dirty pad used over and over again and a nasty compound. My intent definitely wasn't to scare users away from the rotary and I actually believe every detailer should know how to use one.

I believe once you start getting into the "foamed wool" pad territory the rotary speed advantage in cut over the long throw and a MF pad is all but gone, and yes, the marks foamed wool leaves behind in the paint are easily removed. However, with a true twisted wool cutting pad you have a noticeably faster cut but I still feel the marring in the paint left behind is deeper then it would be with the same compound on a MF pad and the long throw, and I also like to run the rotary around 600-1200 rpms for compounding. Granted the improvements in compounds over the years haven definitely reduced the severity of the marring and it significantly better then the old 3M rocks in a bottle or bucket cut was, but the twisted wool cutting pad still leave a deeper defect in the paint. The actual paint type obviously plays a role too.

I was actually doing some testing a few weeks ago with a new compound and the car below needed to be wet sanded, so it made for a good test subject. After testing I ended up using the rotary with a Megs Solo wool cutting pad and M100 to remove the sanding marks due to the hardness of the paint and some of the panel shapes. The marring that step left behind was noticeably deeper then M100 and the other 3 compounds I tested with MF pads on the long throw. It also required an intermediate step to properly finish down where the DA and MF compounded areas did not.

As far as the heat goes, well that's going to depend on technique but the rotary is more capable of generating higher heat. I will agree wool pads tend to run cool though and I feel they're a great starting pad for new users as they don't have tendency to grab and hop like some of the foam pads can.

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Lots of great points Rasky, thanks for the detailed response! I am also a fan of the Meguiar's Maroon Solo wool pad and M100!

I personally HATE the way Lake Country wool pads are curved and have such a deep backing recess. I do really like the new LC flat lambswool pads with the foam interface and center cooling chamber. Do you know of any twisted wool cutting pads that are "low-linting".
 
ELGreco said:
Lately I have been browsing around on YouTube and forums and viewing videos and write ups and I see all theses "Professional Detailers" spending countless hours/days correcting paint (leveling paint) on vehicles using DA Polishers and running through countless pads and using this and that and I sit here and wonder how do theses guys make money? To me a rotary is king! Nothing is going to level Paint faster then a rotary and I would love anyone to argue that with me... so my question is if theses guys are professionals why not just pick up a rotary and turn your 50 hour paint correction into a 4 hour in and out just as good maybe not for your write up or your video or Instagram or whatever but at the end of the day it should come down to being a profitable in and out on to the next detailer... I think this new generation is scared of the rotary and it's just hurting theses guys pockets... we need to bring the rotary back! Yes the da is good for finishing but we are not talking about finishing we are talking about leveling paint (correction) and then finishing with a da... don't let all the hype/internet destroy the most profitable/needed tool in the industry!!


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Nice thread! I agree to a certain extend. However, there are simply too many variable in play such as the compound and pad used which in my opinion are way more important. I have been polishing paint day in day out for about 9 years now and since polishing paint has to be the most time consuming process, I am very open minded in this process hoping to reduce the time needed. Having tried countless compound/pad/ machine combination including the rarely discuss japanese/korean polishing system, I dont think rotary is always the way to go for cutting.

Rotary standouts in cases when high speed and pressure is used. A detailer can exert 3 to 7kg of pressure using 1800+rpm trying to remove defects equivalent to 800gr sanding mark on ultra high solid paint. With a quality compound, you can complete a 30*30cm work area under 1 minute and finish off with 1 or 2 steps more depending what you want to do. You can then buff a larger area in the second step to finish off. In this scenerio, simply start with a DA to cut heavy defects in my opinion is very inefficient. It can be done, but I have not come across a compound/pad combo that is as quick as a rotary.

When it comes to polishing soft to medium clearcoat, DA(Be it force or free spinning) is capable to remove 1000gr sanding mark and finish hologram free in a single polishing cycle for the same 30*30cm work area under 1 to 2 minutes. You just need the correct compound and wool pad suitable for DA. The japanese/korean polishing system in my opinion does this best. Furthermore, DA is just way more controllable and uses significant less strength to operate. One may argue that they can achieve similar result using the rotary by reducing the speed and use a less offending pad/polish. Perhaps, but I am not that skillful. I tried, but in my experience is just too difficult to get consistent hologram free result. In fact, I would already inflict holograms even though I achieved a much lesser cut than the DA.
 
pdqgp said:
I grew up using a rotary thus likely why I love my Flex 3401. I agree that a rotary can cut fast and has it's place, but honestly it's far easier to screw up even in the hands of a solid user.

That said, working on customer cars, that's not a risk even I'm going to take. Too many unknowns in terms of what paint is on the car, the condition of it, etc. that expose me to potentially causing an issue that even when I'm right I'm wrong.

The Flex 3401 with Purple wool and a good appropriate compound speeds through corrections with ease and finishes out excellent. The only need is to then go over the car with a few passes and some polish to achieve perfection.

IMO if I can get a sedan done in 5- 7hrs that's great time and good money per hour based on my rates. Lots of variables here but in the end, it's about dollars per hour when it comes to profitability. Key always is meeting or exceeding customer expectations of course too.


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:iagree::whs:
 
mwoywod said:
Lots of great points Rasky, thanks for the detailed response! I am also a fan of the Meguiar's Maroon Solo wool pad and M100!

I personally HATE the way Lake Country wool pads are curved and have such a deep backing recess. I do really like the new LC flat lambswool pads with the foam interface and center cooling chamber. Do you know of any twisted wool cutting pads that are "low-linting".
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Unfortunately, no. I can't stand all the little "fuzzy bunnies" you get from new wool pads but I also hate using them after a wash or two. I actually really like the double sided wool pad by megs, the W5000. It's always centered, which can be a pain on the Solo pads, and it's better at getting into some tighter curved areas, even with it massive size. Unfortunately most the places I order from don't carry them. :/

I'll have to try out that LC flat lambswool pad, looks legit! The one thing I dislike about the PFW is the lack a flexibility, though I guess some backing plates can improve that too.

Cheers! :cheers:
 
RaskyR1 said:
I'll have to try out that LC flat lambswool pad, looks legit!
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Is it the one that recently came out in limited quantities? The one that you can use on either a rotary or DA?

If so, talk about dust bunnies!!! Maybe i didn't break it in? I dunno.
 
Yes, that's the one. First use with LC lambswool is bad but after you wash it by hand once and blow out loose fibers with compressed air (outside) the linting will be pretty much completely gone. Similar to foamed wool/hybrid wool pads.
 
Yes but once broken in I love 'em! If you want substantial cut get a bunch before the 25% off ends.
 
I haven't read through this entire thread, but if someone wants a recommendation for the best wool pad out there (in my humble opinion), check out the black wool Tufbuff pad or the 3d black wool pad. They cut very well and finish down like you wouldn't believe if you use them correctly. They've been my go-to for years as anyone who has ever read any of my Show and Shines can attest to.
 
richy said:
I haven't read through this entire thread, but if someone wants a recommendation for the best wool pad out there (in my humble opinion), check out the black wool Tufbuff pad or the 3d black wool pad. They cut very well and finish down like you wouldn't believe if you use them correctly. They've been my go-to for years as anyone who has ever read any of my Show and Shines can attest to.
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I agree with you on the TufBuff pad and I like the purple foamed wool pad from Lake Country.

RSW
 
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