The truth about pads.

[Paulyfe12]

I have been told to order 3 to 4 pads per application with a DA polisher. Which I have no problem believing or ordering but here is my question. Why do I need to order so many pads? If I was to use a compound and a polish one after the other and use the same pad brand and type. Couldn't I just clean the pads on the fly and of course wash them thoroughly between compounding and polishing? Or do I need a lot of pads because the pads themselves wear out and become useless. Just curious as to this.

 

[VISITOR]

depending on how clean or contaminated the paint is, you will need the 3-4 pads (sometimes even more). they will get saturated and diminish in cut as well. two things you can never have enough of and that is pads and mf towels, it's always good to have plenty on hand...

 

[Kamakaz1961]

I am in agreement with you. I can work on a car with just 1 color pad each. I use and orange, white and red pad. It is just how you use the DA and manage the pads. So far, my method has not failed. It's technique that helps.

Now that being said...I have quite a few pads as back ups or working on more than 1 car or in case I need more pads on the car that I am currently working on. There will be a time that you will need more than 1 pad, however, it has not been very often for me. Either way you will get a feel for it and use your judgement wisely. Remember, it is technique that will help you determine if you need to use more than 1 pad or many pads.

I hope that helps

 

[sdimas]

I used 3 white pads to polish my accord. I also used 1 orange pad for bad areas. But this is because I have really soft paint.

 

[jamesboyy]

Its good to have extra pads in case they wear out but also having extra pads means you don't have to stop after each panel and clean the pad you can just get a new one thus remove more defects and less pad cleaning

 

[BobbyG]

As you begin to polish each panel, you're removing oxidation, grime, and other contaminates. The more square footage you buff, the pad begins to load up and requires cleaning.

Cleaning a pad allows it to perform as intended making the paint look fresh and shinny. If you don't clean the pad you'll be trying to force all that junk back into the paint and making one heck of a mess...

You really do need a supply of pads in stock. Cleaning is one thing but pads do come apart, tear, land in the dirt...etc...

You are in charge and you have a few options to ensure the finish results meet your expectations...

1. Have several pads of each color on the shelf and swap a used one out for a fresh one.
2. Clean on the fly
3. Invest in a pad washer

I've copied some great information Mike Phillips has been kind enough to make available..


Pad Cleaning

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to dry a foam pad after hand washing

Video: Tip for cleaning pads in a pad washer

Cleaning Pads with the Flex 3401 and the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer

Video: How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer

How to adjust the Pad Cleaning Plate in the System 2000 Pad Washer

 

[allenk4]

depending on how clean or contaminated the paint is, you will need the 3-4 pads (sometimes even more). they will get saturated and diminish in cut as well. two things you can never have enough of and that is pads and mf towels, it's always good to have plenty on hand...

+1

Especially when compounding, the pads will load up with contaminants & clear coat that are being removed. These will cause the pad to gum up and cause marring, decreased cut and problems obtaining a uniform finish.

Cleaning on the fly after each section pass can prolong the effectiveness of the pad and allow you to cover more surface area before changing pads. This technique only prolongs the effectiveness of the pad.

As you add compound to the pad for each section, it will eventually become heavy with abrasives and the liquid component of the compound. This causes the pad to become heavy and difficult for the polisher to rotate, especially with a PC. If the pad rotation is decreased, so is it's ability to cut effectively.

When the pad is saturated, it can also lead to increased heat transfer from the machine to the pad, causing the Velcro on the backing plate and the pad to fail catastrophically.


Just to be clear, the different colored pads have different characteristics that are tailored to different applications. The Lake Country page in the AGO store has a good explanation of how each type of pad is designed to perform.

 

[GreatAvalon]

Yea, I agree you need more than 1 pad so you don't have to clean and wait for your one pad to dry. Cleaning on the go only gets it so clean, and I brush out my pad after every panel.

However I do have some beef with the notion to newbies to buy a bajillion pads. When I was buying my DA everyone said you need 3-4 of each pad. So I did. Now I have a ton of pads that I don't use. So for any hobby newbie out there reading this - this is what I wish I would have done. Buy 1 of each pad. So Lake Country flat 5.5" - yellow, orange, white, black, blue. 1 each. Get them in and go do a test spot with your polish. Figure out what pad/product combo is getting the achieved results. Once you have it, go and order more pads to have 3 for a car or 4 for a truck. Also, I recommend only 1 or 2 black/blue pads. I have 3-4 each and I have no need for them. I've only opened one each (just to feel!) and I bought them months ago.

But you really do need 1 of each, that way if you see a scratch you can fix it, rather than having to wait for a new pad in the mail.

Speaking of which, I just noticed about a 2-2 1/2" scratch on my vehicle. White scratch on blue paint. Good thing I have the pads to fix it, since its going to take a yellow or orange. However, I only need 1 pad of whatever gets the scratch up.

Just my 8 cents. I wish I would have saved the $75 on pads I dont use. Oh and for what its worth, I use 3 Lake Country 5.5" Hydrotech Crimsons, 3 white 5.5" Lake Country flat pads, and that is all. I also have 3 5.5" Hydrotech Tangerine (polishing) in case I do need more whites, but I certainly didn't need 3 Tangerines!

 

[Paulyfe12]

well the finish isn't oxidized at all, its brand new with pretty much a lot of "love marks" and some swirling on the hood, but nothing too drastic. Mike Phillips suggested that I use the Wolfgang Paint Correction System with CCS White pads for the swirl remover and polish and a red pad for the sealant. Just a question of how many do I order and how many of each kind, the reds just to apply sealant so I only need like one of those right?

 

[Coopers ST]

My wifes 05 Santa Fe sites out all the time day and night. It hasn't been taken very good care of in the last 3 years. It needed 3 pads for compound, 3 pads for polish, and 2 for finish.
Yesterday I worked my FoST. I used one pad cleaning on the fly for swirl remover, one for glaze, and one for sealant. I was able to clean on the fly and get results I thought were OK, the Santa Fe I could not clean on the fly, just way to gunked up.

 

[FUNX650]

To those that change pads quite often (vs. "cleaning") when compounding/polishing:
-What type of pads...Open-cell or closed-cell pads?
-Which method, if any, of "priming the pad" do you use?

Bob

 

[swanicyouth]

I use 4 pads to polish a car, usually. Along with a few 3" pads. Just to put it out there, when your polishing paint, your getting the abraded clear coat residue on the pad. The residue is working against you to get defect free paint - not for you.

They say larger stroke machines (Rupes) tend to deal with this residue better, as they can disperse it over a larger area.

 

[allenk4]

I use 4 pads to polish a car, usually. Along with a few 3" pads. Just to put it out there, when your polishing paint, your getting the abraded clear coat residue on the pad. The residue is working against you to get defect free paint - not for you.

They say larger stroke machines (Rupes) tend to deal with this residue better, as they can disperse it over a larger area.

How does this work, if you are polishing the same size section with a Rupes or a different DA?

 

[swanicyouth]

How does this work, if you are polishing the same size section with a Rupes or a different DA?

Your not polishing the same size section, or at least the pad is covering a larger area since the orbit is bigger. This helps squeegee the pad more, so it stays cleaner.

I didn't elucidate this phenomena. I got it from some stuff Kevin Brown posted. All credit to KB.

 

[cardaddy]

I agree with everything that's been said about pads building up product, needing cleaning, etc.

Cleaning on the fly can work as well. But that only works so well. Eventually you'll need to use pad cleaner (liquid) or take your pads to your mud sink and clean them. Once wet, those pads WILL have to dry before you can use them again.

No all that is just about gunk, spent product, removed/abraded paint and contaminates.

The one true enemy to pads however is heat. Try compounding an entire hood, without stopping, (even in sections and wiping each section as you go) and that pad will almost certainly be ruined. Whether it's closed or open cell will not make a difference, heat will build up INSIDE the pad. Some is from friction on the surface, but quite a bit is from friction between the pad and backing plate.

Do two or three 20" square sections, remove the pad, put the back of it to the back of your hand, or to your cheek. If it's more than just barely warm..... change it! Clean it on the fly, sit in on your cart or to the side, grab another pad and get back to work. With as few as 3, you might be able to compound an entire vehicle. Just rotate, first in, first out and keep putting the coolest one back on the machine. Better yet to get a minimum of 4 and play it safe.

As you move from compounding to polishing the pad does less work, builds less heat, therefore you need fewer pads. rops:

 

[dooyaunastan]

For me as a hobbyist/enthusiast, I started with 3 each and then ordered 2 white and orange, and I'm glad I did, made working on a Honda Pilot a breeze. Cleaning on the fly was time consuming for me due to not having a pad washer, and just rinsing the pad til it was clean of product and cleaning solution as often as I did made me wish I just had enough pads to do the whole car and clean them after the job was done. 5 was plenty, I wouldn't spend more (as a hobbyist) and I'd say 4 is the sweet spot for mid sized to larger cars. The main thing for me is that polishing paint is fun, cleaning pads isn't.

 

[Paulyfe12]

Alright I se what you guys are saying. So lets say I order 4 white pads. Could I use swirl remover with those 4 pads, then completely clean and dry them, then polish the car? Or would the pads be too warn?

 

[allenk4]

Your not polishing the same size section, or at least the pad is covering a larger area since the orbit is bigger. This helps squeegee the pad more, so it stays cleaner.

I didn't elucidate this phenomena. I got it from some stuff Kevin Brown posted. All credit to KB.

Not doubting that KB wrote about it, just having trouble understanding the principles involved.


I understand that in one rotation a Rupes with a 21mm stroke will cover more surface area than a DA with an 8mm stroke.

If your standard section is 2' x 2' (610mm x 610mm)...are you saying with a Rupes, you are polishing a larger section than that? The extra 13mm of throw would translate to a 2% increase in the area being polished


Were do the contaminants on the pad get squeegeed to? It is my understanding that when using a DA, the polish and everything else migrates to the center of the pad.


Just wondering

 

[sharpreflection]

I have more pads because maybe it's just me but after you clean them they tend to be softer due to the fact that they are wet and need to dry. They don't perform as well when they are damp.

 

[swanicyouth]

Not doubting that KB wrote about it, just having trouble understanding the principles involved.


I understand that in one rotation a Rupes with a 21mm stroke will cover more surface area than a DA with an 8mm stroke.

If your standard section is 2' x 2' (610mm x 610mm)...are you saying with a Rupes, you are polishing a larger section than that? The extra 13mm of throw would translate to a 2% increase in the area being polished


Were do the contaminants on the pad get squeegeed to? It is my understanding that when using a DA, the polish and everything else migrates to the center of the pad.


Just wondering

If you go on his website, Buffdaddy, it explains it well. It's under where you would go to purchase the Rupes machines. I don't want to be quoting him, but he uses the analogy of sanding a very small area. If sanding a very small area, the sandpaper would clog up with the sanded debris. So, clogged up sand paper (or a pad - it's an analogy), would not cut or finish as well.

If you polish a larger service (or use a larger orbit) with the same piece of sandpaper, there is more area for the sanding debris to be dispersed off the sandpaper (or pad). The increased speed of motion also helps to keep the pad clean. That is supposedly why larger stroke machines have the ability to cut faster and finish better. The percentages of all this I don't know. But even if it's just a few percent, sometimes that can make a significant difference in detailing.

I also BELIEVE he touched on this in an AMMO NYC podcast talking about residue control and paint polishing - but it may have been elsewhere - so, I'm not sure about that.


My interpretation is likely very crude, but it's how I think of it.

Again, I didn't figure out or come up with any of this, I learned it all from Kevin Brown. All credit to KB.