The Truth About Wax

MobolWerks said:
I asked the question simply because the detailing business is almost entirely based in flashy marketing. i.e Armor-All actually is in business regardless of their rediculously poor products. I'm mainly interested in the science behind the claims.



Thanks!
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Actually, Armor All protectant is a fine product nowadays.
 
Does it not sit on top of the surface??? My complaint with them is that their protectants do not penetrate, and thus attract dirt. They also use a solvents rather than a water-base, resulting in premature aging, cracking, etc.

I admit I could have bad info, but that's what I've heard.

I am also uder the impression that when used as a tire shine, they do nothing to rehydrate the rubber....
 
MobolWerks said:
Does it not sit on top of the surface??? My complaint with them is that their protectants do not penetrate, and thus attract dirt. They also use a solvents rather than a water-base, resulting in premature aging, cracking, etc.

I admit I could have bad info, but that's what I've heard.

I am also uder the impression that when used as a tire shine, they do nothing to rehydrate the rubber....
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As far as I know it's a water based product. Said to be a water based silicone emulsion.

As far as solvents go, there are good and bad solvents. As a general rule white dressings are in the majority of safe silicone's while blue are of the bad silicone's.

I personally do not use AA as I hate how it attracts dust and lint but I believe the rumor mill has done more to spread false info about AA than truth.

As for "rehydrate leather" what is that and what dressing will do this that you know of?

Anthony
 
Rehydrate Rubber, not leather... i.e. helping tires remain in like-new condition without drying them out with solvents

As toward leather goes, it depends on the type of leather you are speaking of.

Real leather seats - exp. include BMW/Mercedes/Ferrari you would want to clean and then follow with a rehydrating conditioner (not a dressing)

Finished leather seats - exp. All American Cars, Toyota, Lexus, Honda you would want to clean and then follow with 303 Aerospace Protectant. The reason is that "finished" leather is actually leather covered with a thin coat vinyl or coating of some sort- therefore you would treat these seats the same way you would treat a convertible top.

The reason you would NOT use leather conditioner on "finished" leather, is because of the top layer, the conditioner is not able to absorb into the leather - thus you are wasting product (and money).
 
When I say "rehydrate" I mean replenish the natural oils, etc in the tires, leather, vinyl, etc - this promotes long life and keeps them looking like-new for longer
 
MobolWerks said:
I think I may have been a little to general in my statement of "melting".. what I mean to say, is that in high-heat climates, is it reasonable that the outermost layer of the wax could become "soft" enough to allow road contaminates to imbed themselves in the wax

By no means do I assume the wax would melt to the point of falling off of the car:)
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I get what you mean, but if you think about how thin the layer of wax is, I really doubt it would have much capacity to hold anything, let alone attract debris.

If it was to soften or melt slightly, then wouldn'd swiping your finger accross the surface while the wax is soft leave swipe marks in the wax, or even cause it to build up at the end of the swipe? Think like soft vs. hard butter.


As for Armor All, even if it doesn't destroy your dash (why risk it anyway when there are much better products out there), I would still not use it because of the horrible dust attraction, greasy feel and the awful greasy look it has. It looks like you've just spread lard accross your dash!
 
MobolWerks said:
Rehydrate Rubber, not leather... i.e. helping tires remain in like-new condition without drying them out with solvents

As toward leather goes, it depends on the type of leather you are speaking of.

Real leather seats - exp. include BMW/Mercedes/Ferrari you would want to clean and then follow with a rehydrating conditioner (not a dressing)

Finished leather seats - exp. All American Cars, Toyota, Lexus, Honda you would want to clean and then follow with 303 Aerospace Protectant. The reason is that "finished" leather is actually leather covered with a thin coat vinyl or coating of some sort- therefore you would treat these seats the same way you would treat a convertible top.

The reason you would NOT use leather conditioner on "finished" leather, is because of the top layer, the conditioner is not able to absorb into the leather - thus you are wasting product (and money).
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You may want to research more on leathers as at least 90% of cars today have coated leathers. Very few leathers are of the aniline finish.

You are correct though on leather conditioners and how they may just sit on top of the leathers clear coat.

To make sure drop a small amount of water on the leather, if it absorbs and darkens then it's most likely aniline leather if it beads and rests on top then it's coated.

Also, on tire dressings......which I mistakenly used the word "leather", where have you read or who told you that they replenish the rubber oils?

Take care,
Anthony
 
MobolWerks said:
I think I may have been a little to general in my statement of "melting".. what I mean to say, is that in high-heat climates, is it reasonable that the outermost layer of the wax could become "soft" enough to allow road contaminates to imbed themselves in the wax
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The layer of protection ingredients left behind on the surface after initial wipe-off is measured in microns and probably sub-microns, I don't know I'm not a Physicist and doesn't matter anyway because in the real world you're going to do your research as to the best product for your needs, apply it, wipe it off and move on with your day.

As time goes by this coating will wear off because that's the nature of car waxes and paint sealants, they are

Sacrificial Barrier Coatings

The coating sacrifices itself so your paint doesn't have to sacrifice itself.

Make sense?

If anyone reading this is concerned about the topic of a wax melting and attracting and then holding particulates onto itself then simply release your worries and go with a synthetic.

:)


Anthony Orosco said:
To make sure drop a small amount of water on the leather, if it absorbs and darkens then it's most likely aniline leather if it beads and rests on top then it's coated.
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I spoke with a chemist about this and they said that even though modern leather is coated that over time this coating wears off or wears down, this is probably more true for high wear surfaces like the seat portion where you sit and slide in and out of the car.

On this topic, I've been asked a lot about cleaning, conditioning and protecting leather interiors and while the norm on discussion forums like this is to examine the science behind the material, (coated and uncoated leather), the products and the process, what I always do is redirect the focus back to reality and that is,

Leather surfaces should be maintained on a regular basis to help them to last and look good over the service life of the car. I think we can all agree on that.

When it comes to choosing a product to apply and wipe off, sometimes it comes down to placing your trust in a company that you respect and trust that they've done their research into the types of leather used in our industry and the products they've created and packaged and offer to us are the right products or formulas for the job.

I know that's kind of simplistic but I don't want to become a chemist just to figure out how to wipe my leather seats down once a month.




Anthony Orosco said:
Also, on tire dressings......which I mistakenly used the word "leather", where have you read or who told you that they replenish the rubber oils?

Take care,
Anthony
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Same kind of analogy for leather kind of applies to tires.

Your car's tires are the fast spinning things between you and the pavement. All reputable companies that supply dressings for the detailing industry understand that their products cannot negatively affect the integrity of the tire sidewall in a way that could cause a dangerous situation. My guess is that any chemist making a tire dressing formula has had that made clear to them by company management or a team of lawyers.

Note I used the word reputable in the above paragraph.

In 2002 I re-wrote the Meguiar's FAQ on their corporate website, I took it from 20 pages in MS word with 1.5" borders to 65 pages in MS word with .5 borders.
(In case you have never noticed, I'm a long copy writer :D )

The section on tires explains how rubber works and I'm pretty confident that the information presented is still accurate today. Here's a portion of it...


Most people don't give a lot of thought to their tires except for how they look. Truth be known, your tires are designed to perform under extreme conditions of heat via kinetic energy transfer, high speeds for long periods of time and incredible forces of torque and flexing. That's a lot to ask from a chunk of rubber, inflated with air like a cream filled donut.

The science behind the modern rubber formulas used by major tire manufactures today is both complex and interesting. The rubber itself contains and ingredient called Antiozonant. Antiozonant is an ingredient that helps to prevent the exterior rubber surface from cracking, checking, oxidizing, and deteriorating. The rubber is designed in such a way as to constantly work its way to the outside of the tire and as such, continually replenish the exterior surface with fresh antiozonant.


The brown color you see build-up on the sidewalls of a tire is called blooming

blooming.jpg


After the antiozonant works its way to the outside of the tire and is exposed to the ozone in the air, it turns brown. The technical term for this effect is blooming.
This is why you see a brown film on the surface your tires. You can wash your tires with soap or an all-purpose cleaner and remove this film, but in a few weeks, it's back. That's because the antiozonant continually works its way to the outside of the tires every time you drive your car.
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A quality tire dressing will help preserve the tire as well as give it a nice appearance.

  • Some people like really shiny tires.
  • Some people like a matte finish on their tires
  • Some people fall somewhere in-between these to preferences


And on that note... check out Autogeek.net for all your leather and tire dressing needs!


Leather products

Tire products


And if you have any questions about which products would best suit your specific needs, call our Tech Line at 1-800-869-3011 where our staff are always ready to answer any questions you might have.


:xyxthumbs:
 
This is funny....

After I posted my above reply about leather and rubber, I went back to the forum homepage and as normal, the most recently replied to thread was on the top of the Recent Threads list and it reads...

The Truth About Wax


So much for staying on-topic...


:laughing:
 
So in terms of maintaining leather seating surfaces (and other truths about wax:)) if your leather is coated, and you keep up with it, would a product like 303 Aerospace not be the best choice (assuming the coating was maintained and stayed intact) ???

By that I mean the better choice than an actual leather conditioner, which assuming the top coat was in tact, it would not allow penetration of the conditioner, thus resulting in essentially a "non-effect" i.e. wasted product
 
MobolWerks said:
So in terms of maintaining leather seating surfaces (and other truths about wax:)) if your leather is coated, and you keep up with it, would a product like 303 Aerospace not be the best choice (assuming the coating was maintained and stayed intact) ???

By that I mean the better choice than an actual leather conditioner, which assuming the top coat was in tact, it would not allow penetration of the conditioner, thus resulting in essentially a "non-effect" i.e. wasted product
Click to expand...

Well some "leather" products are made for coated leather rather than uncoated (or aniline) leather, that is why some leather products can also be used as a plastic dressing, and some plastic and rubber dressings (i.e. 303) can be used as coated "leather conditioners".

Leatherique is a good example, it's made for coated leather, but will do a much better job at reviving old leather than 303 will. I think the ingredients of the product have a lot to do with the way they act, including the repulsion of dirt since dirt is abrasive and can do a lot of damage.

Wait wait, truth about wax.....
Don't use leatherique on your paint... bad idea (See I'm still on topic ;))
 
Mike, excellent info as always.

I believe the main key here is "preservation" and it should start as early as possible if one wishes to keep their car looking and feeling new.

So keep your carpets vacuumed as this decreases the damage from loose grit. Keep your leather clean, watch what you wear (belts, cell phones, etc.) as this can wear on seats. Keep the paint protected from UV damage. And so on.

Sorry for the hi-jacked thread but we all learn something :)

Anthony
 
Oh crap!! I just buffed my whole hood with leatherique!!

Just kiddin, thanks for the advise
 
Anthony Orosco said:
I believe the main key here is "preservation" and it should start as early as possible if one wishes to keep their car looking and feeling new.

Anthony
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Exactly.

Put into place a regular maintenance program for the various areas of your car and then follow-through. So once a person finds a car wash they like, a car wax they like a leather care product they like a glass cleaner, a tire dressing, and so on and so on, keep up on your car's appearance care as often as determined by the kind of use it sees and this will be the easiest way to keep your car looking brand new and even better than brand new.

Frequent car care is fast and easy car care

(I got that one from a guy named Barry)


:xyxthumbs:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This is funny....

After I posted my above reply about leather and rubber, I went back to the forum homepage and as normal, the most recently replied to thread was on the top of the Recent Threads list and it reads...

The Truth About Wax


So much for staying on-topic...


:laughing:
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it.

It's when you go "off the farm" that I always seem to learn something new.
 
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