Thoughts on Rotary "Dry Buffing"

xabo

xabo

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I've watched a buddy of mine use a rotary on a couple of vehicles. His process is to spread the compound on the vehicle, let it haze then proceed to buff it off. All of the videos I've seen on rotary buffing involves either putting the compound on the vehicle then "picking" the product up with the pad or applying the product directly to the pad.

I realize that there's more than one way "skin a cat" and was wondering what you thought of his process.
 
I honestly can't think of a single reason you'd want to spread the compound out, wait for the lubricating oils to dry, then start the buffing process.

Whether I'm using a DAT or SMAT compound, I always apply the product directly to the lambswool pad.

When using a DAT or diminishing abrasive compound, I think it's important to spread the compound out so the abrasives are evenly distributed across the working area. I like to throttle the trigger of the rotary while it's set at 600rpms to spread the compound out. Even at low machine speeds, some diminishing abrasives can start breaking down from just spreading the product out, which is why I try to do my best to spread the abrasive out without creating too much heat or friction.

When using a Non-diminishing compound, spreading the compound out first really isn't necessary. You can apply it directly to the pad, start at a low speed just so the compound doesn't sling, then turn the polisher up to your working speed (1000rpms-1400rpms).

I like a compound with a TON of lubrication when working with a rotary and lambswool pad. M100 and M101 are great compounds for leveling defects quick. But whenever I teach guys how to use the rotary on a practice panel, I always teach them with Jescar Correcting Compound or Scholl's S3 Gold XXL. These compounds won't cut as much as M101 or M100, but they stay lubricated longer. Lubrication is key for safe and effective rotary polishing IMO.
 
Not sure if he's using a DAT or a SMAT. He uses a compound made by Malco. I asked what speed he uses and was told "around 2600 rpm"
 
mwoywod said:
I honestly can't think of a single reason you'd want to spread the compound out, wait for the lubricating oils to dry, then start the buffing process.

Whether I'm using a DAT or SMAT compound, I always apply the product directly to the lambswool pad.

When using a DAT or diminishing abrasive compound, I think it's important to spread the compound out so the abrasives are evenly distributed across the working area. I like to throttle the trigger of the rotary while it's set at 600rpms to spread the compound out. Even at low machine speeds, some diminishing abrasives can start breaking down from just spreading the product out, which is why I try to do my best to spread the abrasive out without creating too much heat or friction.

When using a Non-diminishing compound, spreading the compound out first really isn't necessary. You can apply it directly to the pad, start at a low speed just so the compound doesn't sling, then turn the polisher up to your working speed (1000rpms-1400rpms).

I like a compound with a TON of lubrication when working with a rotary and lambswool pad. M100 and M101 are great compounds for leveling defects quick. But whenever I teach guys how to use the rotary on a practice panel, I always teach them with Jescar Correcting Compound or Scholl's S3 Gold XXL. These compounds won't cut as much as M101 or M100, but they stay lubricated longer. Lubrication is key for safe and effective rotary polishing IMO.
Click to expand...

This is good read. Thanks.


Question---I have bunch of good high quality polishes bought from here. Just realized if I picked up a bottle, I could not tell you if it is a DAT or SMAT formula. How do you know what abrasive in any given polish?

Tom
 
Have a body shop friend who does this. Results have always turned out great.

He said if you're not sure if you'll burn paint using a rotary do this. He picked this up from an old school body man.

Take towel with lots of polish or compound, smears polish on panel, large area 4 x 4 square, covered in polish. Takes rotary on low speed and makes few passes then then dials it up a bit.

Hate to say, but results turned out very well with minimal holograms.

My take is:
1. This feeling I got is "you're not sure how to polish w/o burning."
2. If not sure of what you're doing, then uses much compound/polish
3. Wasting lots and lots of product.
4. Lack of knowledge with current abrasive technology.

Tom
 
mwoywod said:
I honestly can't think of a single reason you'd want to spread the compound out, wait for the lubricating oils to dry, then start the buffing process.
Click to expand...


I agree.

When you lose lubrication friction increases. Clearcoats are scratch-sensitive, this means even though they are harder than traditional single stage paints they still scratch easy.


I'd like to see the results of this process on black paint in the sun after wipe-off.


Does your friend do anything to the paint AFTER the rotary step?


I always say there's a million ways to skin a cat, (sorry PETA, just a saying), and believe this is true, so if your buddy's system works for him more power to him. What I've seen in my life however is a lot of cars with holograms over the years from rotary only buff outs. Just depends on the last step process and most important, the abrasive technology and the pad used.


:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
I agree.

When you lose lubrication friction increases. Clearcoats are scratch-sensitive, this means even though they are harder than traditional single stage paints they still scratch easy.


I'd like to see the results of this process on black paint in the sun after wipe-off.


Does your friend do anything to the paint AFTER the rotary step?


I always say there's a million ways to skin a cat, (sorry PETA, just a saying), and believe this is true, so if your buddy's system works for him more power to him. What I've seen in my life however is a lot of cars with holograms over the years from rotary only buff outs. Just depends on the last step process and most important, the abrasive technology and the pad used.


:)
Click to expand...

Applies a coat or two of wax. Vehicles do look good afterwards..........
 
TMQ said:
Have a body shop friend who does this. Results have always turned out great.

He said if you're not sure if you'll burn paint using a rotary do this. He picked this up from an old school body man.

Take towel with lots of polish or compound, smears polish on panel, large area 4 x 4 square, covered in polish. Takes rotary on low speed and makes few passes then then dials it up a bit.

Hate to say, but results turned out very well with minimal holograms.

My take is:
1. This feeling I got is "you're not sure how to polish w/o burning."
2. If not sure of what you're doing, then uses much compound/polish
3. Wasting lots and lots of product.
4. Lack of knowledge with current abrasive technology.

Tom
Click to expand...

I assume the product is still "somewhat" wet/moist at this point? He starts and finishes @ 26 rpm's.
 
xabo said:
I assume the product is still "somewhat" wet/moist at this point? He starts and finishes @ 26 rpm's.
Click to expand...

Yes...

Product was still very wet when polishing. Actually---very wet and very thick.!

Tom
 
TMQ said:
This is good read. Thanks.


Question---I have bunch of good high quality polishes bought from here. Just realized if I picked up a bottle, I could not tell you if it is a DAT or SMAT formula. How do you know what abrasive in any given polish?

Tom
Click to expand...

Tom,

Sorry for the delayed response. I read a lot about the different abrasive technology used in my compounds and polishes. But I know there are really only two companies that sell compounds and polishes with non-diminishing abrasives. That's Meguiars and 3D.

Non-Diminishing
-M205
-M101
-M105
-M100
-D166
-D151
-D300
-HD Cut+
-HD Polish+
-HD Speed
-3D 501
-3D 502
-3D 505 Correction Glaze

Menzerna and Griot's don't use traditional DAT abrasives. I think they both use "Agglomerated Abrasive Technology" which are groupings of small abrasives that still break down to finer abrasives which is still categorized as a DAT abrasive.

Because I believe Menzerna engineers the abrasive technology for compounds and polishes in other lines, I am confident Jescar, Blackfire, Wolfgang, Mckee's, Marine 31, & Pinnacle all use DAT abrasives.

Carpro uses DAT

Scholl Concepts uses DAT (rapidly diminishing abrasives)

Sonax uses DAT

Britemax uses DAT

Optimum uses a mixture of DAT & SMAT
 
You're making my head hurt:wow::wow::goodpost:
 
mwoywod said:
Tom,

Sorry for the delayed response. I read a lot about the different abrasive technology used in my compounds and polishes. But I know there are really only two companies that sell compounds and polishes with non-diminishing abrasives. That's Meguiars and 3D.

Non-Diminishing
-M205
-M101
-M105
-M100
-D166
-D151
-D300
-HD Cut+
-HD Polish+
-HD Speed
-3D 501
-3D 502
-3D 505 Correction Glaze

Menzerna and Griot's don't use traditional DAT abrasives. I think they both use "Agglomerated Abrasive Technology" which are groupings of small abrasives that still break down to finer abrasives which is still categorized as a DAT abrasive.

Because I believe Menzerna engineers the abrasive technology for compounds and polishes in other lines, I am confident Jescar, Blackfire, Wolfgang, Mckee's, Marine 31, & Pinnacle all use DAT abrasives.

Carpro uses DAT

Scholl Concepts uses DAT (rapidly diminishing abrasives)

Sonax uses DAT

Britemax uses DAT

Optimum uses a mixture of DAT & SMAT
Click to expand...


Wow...Thanks so much for taking the time!

I've bookmark this for future references.

Tom
 
mwoywod said:
Tom,

Sorry for the delayed response. I read a lot about the different abrasive technology used in my compounds and polishes. But I know there are really only two companies that sell compounds and polishes with non-diminishing abrasives. That's Meguiars and 3D.

Non-Diminishing
-M205
-M101
-M105
-M100
-D166
-D151
-D300
-HD Cut+
-HD Polish+
-HD Speed
-3D 501
-3D 502
-3D 505 Correction Glaze

Menzerna and Griot's don't use traditional DAT abrasives. I think they both use "Agglomerated Abrasive Technology" which are groupings of small abrasives that still break down to finer abrasives which is still categorized as a DAT abrasive.

Because I believe Menzerna engineers the abrasive technology for compounds and polishes in other lines, I am confident Jescar, Blackfire, Wolfgang, Mckee's, Marine 31, & Pinnacle all use DAT abrasives.

Carpro uses DAT

Scholl Concepts uses DAT (rapidly diminishing abrasives)

Sonax uses DAT

Britemax uses DAT

Optimum uses a mixture of DAT & SMAT
Click to expand...

Only Menzerna 400 uses AAT, Scholl Concepts uses IPT- Intelligent Powder Technology, all of which diminish anyways and are classified as DAT. Meguiars M80,85 series still sold outside the US is DAT too. Lets not forget Mothers uses SMAT abrasives too.
 
Seems like dry buffing would increase the chance of strike through. The polish has to be more aggressive with less lubrication.
 
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