Throwing my hands up: Poor performance/beading/durability from everything.

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AllenK

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I have always tried to keep my vehicles clean/waxed/polished since I was a kid. I used mostly OTC stuff like TW,Black Magic Eagle One/Meguiars up until about 10 years ago when I bought my first "boutique" product which was the Zaino line of products.

I heard all about 6 months or more of tight beading sitting outside all the time blah blah blah. Bought the full lineup. Clayed,polished,etc.... Wiped down with IPA, you name it,and followed the instructions to a "T" The rain here would kill the beading on the top surfaces in short order every time.
Did it on several different vehicles also

Since then I have used products from Duragloss,Optimum,Blackfire,Ultima,Surf City etc...

Absolutely none of them has given me near the durability that others have claimed to get no matter what surface prep and application methods,or maintenance.

Today was the last straw. I had to vent. I went outside and washed my wife's car last night with Blackfire Rinseless. I had previously washed the car just last week after a coat of Blackfire Wet Diamond a month or so ago. The beading was already pretty well shot when I washed last week,and last night it was pretty bad too. We have had quite a bit of rain here lately,but surely not enough to kill the BFWD already. I finished with a coat of Wet Diamond Polymer Spray on the top surfaces.

We had a round of severe weather this morning,and it rained pretty hard for about 20 minutes. Actually had some small hail.
When the rain stopped I went out to check for hail damage.
The beading on the top surfaces was big and blobby,and I was not pleased.

You cannot tell me that a "boutique" product cannot withstand a brief heavy downpour. It looks like it has been on there several week or months instead of barely 12 hours. I am not picking on Blackfire because I get the same results no matter with just about any product. It looks like my wife and I don't take nearly as good care of our vehicles as we do.

What do we have going on here? We never park under trees or anything like that. Do we have the most severe acid rain or what?

I debated even posting this,but today was the last straw. I am not the type who would ever go very long without waxing/polishing etc,but still. Why can't I get the performance that others claim?
 
Hi, sorry for the frustration! I used nothing but Black Fire for a very long time and had great success with it. But what your experience I can only remember happening hand full of times. I know you said you washed the recently but was it dirty when it rained? I'm rarely impressed by rain beads especially if there dirt on the car. Have you thought about trying a coating? Gloss Coat preforms very well and is easier to apply then any thing. I'm pretty sure this would get you the performance your looking for. Hope this helps!
 
To make you happy apply collinite 845 and it should give you what your looking for.There are so many variables when it comes to that promblem black fire products are great,but in short of all this typing 845 is probably the product your looking for as far as protection and beading.
 
GSKR said:
To make you happy apply collinite 845 and it should give you what your looking for.There are so many variables when it comes to that promblem black fire products are great,but in short of all this typing 845 is probably the product your looking for as far as protection and beading.
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Tried that before too. Same results. :( 476 also.

I live in Southwest Arkansas. Not picking on Blackfire either. They're just the latest thing to fail. I have wanted to do a coating,but I would be REALLY mad if it didn't perform like it was supposed to.
 
I went out and posted some pics not long after it stopped raining. See what y'all think. I just used my wife's Iphone for some quick pictures. Car is a Liquid Red 2009 G8 GT:
 
Once again it begs the questions:

-Does beading; the size/shape of beads...determine
the level, amount, or longevity of LSP-protection?
-What is the definition of LSP-performance?


Bob
 
Welcome to the real world! I have never paid a whole lot of attention to durability claims. In my experience, regardless of the LSP used (and I surely have not used them all but I've used many over the years), the initial slickness of a just "waxed" surface is very short lived. Even after a single wash the slickness is compromised. Spray waxes at each cleaning can help.

Now I agree that water-beading and/or the slickness of the finish is not necessarily the determining factor for "protection", but then again, how do you measure "protection" and how do you associate a time-frame with it?
 
AllenK said:
Tried that before too. Same results. :( 476 also.

I live in Southwest Arkansas. Not picking on Blackfire either. They're just the latest thing to fail. I have wanted to do a coating,but I would be REALLY mad if it didn't perform like it was supposed to.
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When you wash car deos the beading come back ?
 
:iagree:
2black1s said:
Welcome to the real world! I have never paid a whole lot of attention to durability claims. In my experience, regardless of the LSP used (and I surely have not used them all but I've used many over the years), the initial slickness of a just "waxed" surface is very short lived. Even after a single wash the slickness is compromised. Spray waxes at each cleaning can help.

Now I agree that water-beading and/or the slickness of the finish is not necessarily the determining factor for "protection", but then again, how do you measure "protection" and how do you associate a time-frame with it?
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:iagree: but he just did the car.845 should not dissipate that quickly there something wrong in the process somewhere.
 
I'm planning on washing our car tomorrow first thing in the morning.

It was last coated in September. It hasn't been washed but once or twice since it was coated and it's parked outside 24x7

I'll use the Foam Gun and the "Gentle Approach" I teach in my 3-day classes and also show on our Roku Channel.

Then I'll spray the car with water and take a picture and let you judge the water beading.


:)
 
GSKR said:
:iagree: :iagree: but he just did the car.845 should not dissipate that quickly there something wrong in the process somewhere.
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Washing a car micro-abrades off waxes and sealants.

Scrubbing a car is even worse. Not saying AllenK scrubs his paint when he washes the car as I'm sure he's way more advanced than that. Just saying in general most people don't pay attention as to how they move a wash mitt over the surface.

For a freshly waxed and regularly maintained car you only need to move the mitt over the paint for one or two passes and either move on to new territory or rinse. That's the gentle approach and the approach that is opposite of scrubbing the paint.

I cover this in my how-to book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine" and I explain the Aggressive Approach here,


The Aggressive Approach to Washing a Car



:)
 
I think there is definitely something else here that is preventing the OP from getting those juicy round beads he seems to want. Like Bob mentioned, the size and shape of the bead does not mean the LSP is diminished.

Could there be airborne contaminants on the paint effecting the water beading ability? What is the process the OP is using before he applies the LSP.

I have used 845 on my dads car down in South Florida and it lasted with nice beads for 6 months. Its been over a month, maybe two since I applied Black Diamond Coating and it is still beading like the day after I applied it, and that is with him taking the car to an automated car wash. I have not touched it since.

On my car, once every few weeks I use either a QD when I dry the car or a spray wax and I have incredible water beading that never lets up. Its been probably a year since I applied an actual wax.

There is definitely more to the story here.
 
GSKR said:
When you wash car deos the beading come back ?
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Initially yes,but the rain compromises it quickly it seems.

How is the sheeting?
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I will try and get a video on here in a little bit. My neighbor who gives me heck for being off work/and or washing my car is outside. I am already agitated,and I don't want to get into it with him.

Not saying AllenK scrubs his paint when he washes the car as I'm sure he's way more advanced than that
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I always use a clean microfiber mitt or towels,washed with Micro-Restore,Blackfire MF detergent,or HD Kleen. I have towels from Autogeek,D.I.,and Chemical Guys so I do try and use quality stuff. I always vinegar rinse and air dry. When I use a mitt I use the two bucket method. I wash half the panel,flip the mitt over,and wash the other half with the other side of the mitt.

I can tell you right now Mike I wish I had a tenth of your skill!
 
Vinegar rinse? That's a new one for me. I have never heard of that before. That could be the culprit right there.
 
Jaretr1 said:
I think there is definitely something else here that is preventing the OP from getting those juicy round beads he seems to want. Like Bob mentioned, the size and shape of the bead does not mean the LSP is diminished.

Could there be airborne contaminants on the paint effecting the water beading ability? What is the process the OP is using before he applies the LSP.

I have used 845 on my dads car down in South Florida and it lasted with nice beads for 6 months. Its been over a month, maybe two since I applied Black Diamond Coating and it is still beading like the day after I applied it, and that is with him taking the car to an automated car wash. I have not touched it since.

On my car, once every few weeks I use either a QD when I dry the car or a spray wax and I have incredible water beading that never lets up. Its been probably a year since I applied an actual wax.

There is definitely more to the story here.
Click to expand...

My wife's car could probably use a claying. It has been a while. However, I have done full out clay/polish/ipa widedown on various vehicles in the past with the same results.

You can't rule out atmospheric variables either. I have no idea what is flying around in the air. I can't go out every day and wipe/wash the car off especially with the short days this time of year. The car gets washed once a week in the Summer,and it always gets some kind of spray wax,detail spray,WOWA sealant,or a regular LSP put on it.
 
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