Throwing my hands up: Poor performance/beading/durability from everything.

Jaretr1 said:
Vinegar rinse? That's a new one for me. I have never heard of that before. That could be the culprit right there.
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I use a little vinegar in the rinse cycle for extra towel softness and to help remove detergent residue.
 
ski2 said:
He's talking about his MF towels, not the car.
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Ah...that makes more sense.

There is still something about this entire situation. Somewhere, either in the process, the environment, something is causing the beading to diminish.
 
One thing I've noticed regardless of which LSP is on the car (I've used DG, Collinite, BFWD, POXY and FK1000p) -- if it is a fine steady rain there will be nice tight small beads, but if it's a heavy downpour the beads will be more like the blobs you show in your photos. When it's heavy rain it seems to me that the water may sheet more causing the tight high beads to gather into blobs.
 
Well my guess is that there is a lot of pollution where you live and when it rains the car gets covered by several contaminants that prevents tight beading.

Once you wash the car that should remedy the situation until it rains again ;( Where I live I have a similar problem. Here we have trees on every street. I cannot park the car anywhere without having a tree nearby... so my car is always covered in sap, leaves, insects, you name it. I gave up keeping the car clean years ago. When I wash it the next day it's just as bad. So now I wash the car when it gets very dirty or when I feel like doing it for the fun of it. Strange of a detailer but I have other things to do than wash the car 7 days a week on top of my detailing jobs ;)
 
There's your promblem vinegar residue potentially still left in the towels.Try to stick with one product line,wowa products different waxes and sealants can be canceling each other out and try not using venegar.your applicator should be used for each product you may have collinite still in the app pad then when you apply the sealant it could be causing your promblem.I use 845 on my cars and run them thru the carwash and get months of longevity I'm to lazy to wash my own cars after a hard week so I look for simplicity.
 
ski2 said:
One thing I've noticed regardless of which LSP is on the car (I've used DG, Collinite, BFWD, POXY and FK1000p) -- if it is a fine steady rain there will be nice tight small beads, but if it's a heavy downpour the beads will be more like the blobs you show in your photos. When it's heavy rain it seems to me that the water may sheet more causing the tight high beads to gather into blobs.
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True Story
 
GSKR said:
There's your promblem vinegar residue potentially still left in the towels.Try to stick with one product line,wowa products different waxes and sealants can be canceling each other out and try not using venegar.your applicator should be used for each product you may have collinite still in the app pad then when you apply the sealant it could be causing your promblem.I use 845 on my cars and run them thru the carwash and get months of longevity I'm to lazy to wash my own cars after a hard week so I look for simplicity.
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Been using all Blackfire products Wet Diamond,WDPS,and Crystal Seal some also. I have dedicated applicator for the Wet Diamond also.

I will back off on the vinegar. Willing to try anything!

I will say that I love the HD Towel Kleen. I do recall that the towels I used I did do a vinegar rinse on them,and I washed with something besides the HD detergent. I tried the HD with no vinegar rinse,and the towels felt great.
 
The vinegar is not the problem. It only aids in making sure that the towels are rinsed free of detergent.
 
Here is the sheeting video,such as it is.

[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=cexML1FeuFM"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cexML1FeuFM[/video]

One more thing: The rain doesn't affect beading on the glass. I get tight beads on the glass whatever product I use. Trim treatments last really well also. The tops of the mirrors bead better also.
 
AllenK said:
Here is the sheeting video,such as it is.

[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=cexML1FeuFM"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cexML1FeuFM[/video]

One more thing: The rain doesn't affect beading on the glass. I get tight beads on the glass whatever product I use. Trim treatments last really well also. The tops of the mirrors bead better also.
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Judging by that video that is pretty pathetic.

OP are you adding any glaze or Polish before the wax protection ?

If so are you wiping with IPA to remove the oils.

Putting wax on a oily surface is like trying to put a sticker on ice.

It might be that during the wash process you are stripping the protection for some reason.

I have had jetseal topped with meguiars liquid wax last 9 months+ and still going in Chicago.

How are you applying the product machine or by hand ?

Is the applicator/pad clean ?

Did you mix multiple wax with these pads ?

Forgive me if I'm asking you newbie questions not saying you don't know just trying to find the problem ?

Also what might help if the washing process is striping let's add some spray wax while were drying to add some of it back!
 
If it were me personally I would strip the car and clay it .Then polish it back off the vinegar use a new app and apply 845 there should be no promblems or maybe coat it with some blackfire.when I do my towels I use laundry detergent and rinse twice and throw them in the dryer and never have any promblems even cleaning glass no streaks or smudges but backing off the vinegar may take the promblem away or not but its worth a try.
 
Could be your carwash soap as well.I tend to use a wash and wax soap but other members disagree.Keep things simple ,and don't mix a whole lot of waxes and sealants and wowa products,that wowa product smells like alcohol that maybe your promblem.
 
I live in Michigan and during the winter use a car wash. I used BFWD on my wife's 2001 park ave 6 months ago and it still beads tight. That is on a daily driven older car that gets run through a car wash this time of the year. It makes me wonder if you are getting some sort of airborne contamination that is affecting the water beading .
 
Jsmooth said:
Hi, sorry for the frustration! I used nothing but Black Fire for a very long time and had great success with it. But what your experience I can only remember happening hand full of times. I know you said you washed the recently but was it dirty when it rained? I'm rarely impressed by rain beads especially if there dirt on the car. Have you thought about trying a coating? Gloss Coat preforms very well and is easier to apply then any thing. I'm pretty sure this would get you the performance your looking for. Hope this helps!
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What ^he^ said.

Beading not good, if car dirty.
 
I'm a strong believer in applying waxes/sealants/coating to clean paint. The question was asked if your doing an IPA wipe down after polishing. To me this is an extremely important step before applying your LSP.

Since you have Blackfire paint sealant, why not use Blackfire Polishing Enhancer as your prep (paint cleaner) before applying Blackfire Sealant.
 
It's possible that acid rain could be neutralizing the beading on the car. If you have any Sonax Polymer Net Shield left, set that up on half of the hood and put another sealant you want to test on the other side. SPNS is really one of the strongest and most durable water beading products when compared to other sealants, so having that on one side is going to give you a strong base to check to see if there's something in either the rain water or possibly your rinseless solution that is masking the beading up.

Go over the sections with a light polish, wipe down with a prep product or IPA, then apply the sealants and check after the first few days or the first week to confirm a strong water behavior with a regular wash. Then go over it with your rinseless and rinse with the hose to see if the water behavior is being altered by the rinseless. And then periodically check after that.

Some products start out strong and then the high surface tension won't last beyond a few weeks on a daily sitting outside. Other times you might have the same product on the car and have it garaged and it will be strong for a few months and you'll notice a more gradual decrease in the beading and the rate of the water sheeting. Surface tension is a tricky business, there are a lot of things that can alter it but if you really notice a large drop in the water behavior of SPNS within that first month, then something funky is going on.
 
I just wanted to jump on here real quick while I had the time to thank you for your help and advice and not just making me feel stupid!

The storm we had yesterday may have been more nasty than I and the weather service thought. We had over an inch of rain really quickly,and possibly more than that here. It really got with it raining,and the wind was pretty bad. The trees were really rocking! Took down a "widowmaker" limb that has needed to come down for quite some time.

My point is that the storm may have stirred up no telling what in the wind and rain, and put it on the car. That and being a little overdue for claying probably led to the diminished beading. I just got agitated since I had JUST detailed the car 12 hours before hand. I did go out and do a quick Blackfire Rinseless wash and I retopped the top surfaces with the Wet Diamond Polymer Spray. We are in for more severe weather and tons of rain tomorrow and all weekend so we'll so what happens.

I have posted it before,but here is my wife's car. She LOVES it.

Merry Christmas y'all!

Allen and Amanda
Chevy the Corgi
 
AllenK said:
I just wanted to jump on here real quick while I had the time to thank you for your help and advice and not just making me feel stupid!

The storm we had yesterday may have been more nasty than I and the weather service thought. We had over an inch of rain really quickly,and possibly more than that here. It really got with it raining,and the wind was pretty bad. The trees were really rocking! Took down a "widowmaker" limb that has needed to come down for quite some time.

My point is that the storm may have stirred up no telling what in the wind and rain, and put it on the car. That and being a little overdue for claying probably led to the diminished beading. I just got agitated since I had JUST detailed the car 12 hours before hand. I did go out and do a quick Blackfire Rinseless wash and I retopped the top surfaces with the Wet Diamond Polymer Spray. We are in for more severe weather and tons of rain tomorrow and all weekend so we'll so what happens.

I have posted it before,but here is my wife's car. She LOVES it.

Merry Christmas y'all!

Allen and Amanda
Chevy the Corgi
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Be safe. Had similar happen 2 hours after I detailed my car. Kinda sucks.
 
Were do you park your car when its raining I know if I park under a Elm tree when its raining , the beads go flat because the rain is washing something out of the tree and it coating the car and killing the beads.
 
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