Today's Tragedy

[Dogfather]

There is a difference between just killing someone whom you regard as an enemy, and stopping someone who is in the act of killing people.

Hey, you must be listening to Rush D***.... to (sic) long also.
And I always thought the haters were on the right. Who knew?

 

[Joe@Superior Shine]

God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life.

I am commanded by God to provide for my loved ones. Shelter, food, love... defense. If defending my family then killing is justifiable.

1 Timothy 5:8

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Here is one of my favorites - Proverbs 25:26 "A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well."

Certainly we would be faltering before the wicked if we chose to do nothing and not be prepared to resist an assailant who might be threatening our or another life.

Flash, If someone intended you or a loved one what would your response be?

Here Jesus SAYS, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

A sword was the assault weapon of the day.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Man I could go on and on. The Bible is pack full of versus that command us to defend against wicked with many verses telling us to take up a sword.

 

[slimnib]

Why do people need a Cadillac Escalade when most likely, a Toyota Camry will due? Why do couples with no kids buy 5000 square foot homes with 5 bedrooms and 7 bathrooms when a 1 bedroom apartment should suffice? Why have a 4 slice toaster when all you ever toast are 2 pieces of bread? Your argument lends well to politicians but not to an overwhelming majority of the population. Neither you or I should be choosing which freedoms another person should have or should give up. What's beyond my understanding is why so many are so quick to give up so much of their freedom, whether it be on guns, what they can eat or drink or smoke, or anything for that matter. In all actuality, it's more like people want to give up other people's freedom because they personally don't have any skin in the game. We all have a personal obligation to keep these things from happening; placing that responsibility on the governments' shoulders will only result in higher taxes, less freedom, and nothing to show for it.

This response just proves my point.
Enough with this stuff- I am off this tread.

 

[Fast Eddie]

I have read most of the post on this tread. Most of them would be really funny, if they were not so sad. People are really nuts when it comes to gun ownership. In parts of this country gun ownership is understanable for sport ( hunting) for safety ( if you live 50 miles from the nearest Police). But 50 mm rifles?. Semi Automatic pistol and rifles? Attack military weapons? Why? It is just beyond my understanding. If you need this kind of stuff why not make a career of the military?

Well, that's one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, right. You'll have to forgive me if I don't share the same opinion as you.

 

[davidc]

In parts of this country gun ownership is understanable for sport ( hunting) for safety ( if you live 50 miles from the nearest Police).

I can guarantee if you are facing a violent situation where someone means you harm that unless a policeman or someone with a weapon is next to you you will not need a policeman you will need a coroner. I have lived in a few states and there is no way the police will be there in time to save your life. I will trust myself to save my life before anyone else.

Dave

 

[KenR]

I have read most of the post on this tread. Most of them would be really funny, if they were not so sad. People are really nuts when it comes to gun ownership. In parts of this country gun ownership is understanable for sport ( hunting) for safety ( if you live 50 miles from the nearest Police). But 50 mm rifles?. Semi Automatic pistol and rifles? Attack military weapons? Why? It is just beyond my understanding. If you need this kind of stuff why not make a career of the military?

Well, that's one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, right. You'll have to forgive me if I don't share the same opinion as you.

Okay, here's the $64 question. Other than (as previously mentioned) for competitions, why would anyone (we are talking law abiding citizens) want to own assault or semi-automatic weapons? Unless you are trying to take down a small army of baddies, isn't it overkill?

 

[david11g35]

I been trying to stay off this topic but I cant help my self any longer. I dont think a ban on guns or stricter gun laws will make a difference. If an evil/crazy person wants to do something evil they will find a way to get a gun or any other sort of weapon. Im in my 20s and the older I get the more frequent I hear about all these shootings its like a montly occurence. Todays society is getting more screwed by the minute.

I personally blame the media for giving all these scumbags all this attention, this is the reason they do these types of things to be remembered. All these cases you always hear they had some type of mental illness or something and how do they try an treat it? medication/drugs all these have some type of side affect which varies in every individual. whatever happened to locking then up in a mental hospital instead of giving the drugs and hoping the will function like normal citizens.

I also think that there is always some type of warning sign but family members or parents fail to see it because they dont want to admit that the individual has and issue

My heart goes out to all the families of the victims in this horrible tragedy.

 

[davidc]

Okay, here's the $64 question. Other than (as previously mentioned) for competitions, why would anyone (we are talking law abiding citizens) want to own assault or semi-automatic weapons? Unless you are trying to take down a small army of baddies, isn't it overkill?

Assualt weapon definition is pull the trigger and alot of bullets fly. Semi-automatic definition the weapon is self loading and ready to fire again 1 bullet per squeeze. Society I hope is not bad enough that I need an assault rifle but it is bad enough for the semi. When something bad is going on I would want to put more than one round in the problem.

Dave

 

[Dogfather]

Okay, here's the $64 question. Other than (as previously mentioned) for competitions, why would anyone (we are talking law abiding citizens) want to own assault or semi-automatic weapons? Unless you are trying to take down a small army of baddies, isn't it overkill?

Assault weapon, good question. But I would consider a semi- automatic pistol like say a Glock 26 basic personal protection.


I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it

 

[Dr_Pain]

Okay, here's the $64 question. Other than (as previously mentioned) for competitions, why would anyone (we are talking law abiding citizens) want to own assault or semi-automatic weapons? Unless you are trying to take down a small army of baddies, isn't it overkill?

Thanks for letting me give you my $64 answer. The simple answer is that "We The People" have a constitutional right (AND DUTY) to defend ourselves from threats foreign or domestic. Obviously we do have a well established enforcement system in place to do that on our behalf but.... What if?

1) What if the government seized all powers and decided to flip this democratic society and make it a dictatorship? Who would fight the army or defend our rights?

2) What if we have an "end day" scenario and our otherwise well manner society, with its force ready to serve, was in pure shamble and total chaos was to ensue? You do need weapons equivalent or better than what is already on the street?

They are "what if" scenarios but they are credible scenarios and if you are caught unprepared..... then what?

Are we likely to see an "end day" scenario? I believe we will see something BAD within our lifetime. Look at the chaos after Katrina? I live in Louisiana and know FIRST HAND, as a first responder, the stuff that happened in New Orleans, things that never made it to the News (or censored from the News) for fear of public uproar. You think the shootings on the bridge were bad....... well, let me leave it there!!!

Natural disasters, man made disasters, EMP etc.... Do you think that our armed forces (federal, state, or local) won't be in complete chaos as a result? Lawlessness was RAMPID after Katrina, now multiply that 1000 fold! A research stated that we will have ZERO consumables within 2 weeks of a nationwide catastrophy. I am not talking about stuff on the shelves but animals, crops etc... then what???

In any case, we have a duty to defend ourselves. It is an individual mandate protected by our constitution. You may not agree with it, but you are currently protected by people just like you and I that have those same weapons in hand. The only difference between them and us is that they are paid to do a job.

I have more training than a large majority of them, have more time spent at the range than the most of them, have shown more proficiency in marksmanship than a 85% of our current military..... so why should I be "prevented" for volunteering and protecting our country from threats foreign or domestic? Because I am not getting paid by the government? Why should I be limited in my ability to own the "right tools" for the job? Because of some psychopathy/sociopath that chose to enact his terror on defenseless people. Well, the answer is not to create more legislation, because evil people don't believe in laws. The answer is to remove the words DEFENSELESS PEOPLE from our vocabulary.

Gun control = no more idiots? Nope!
Gun control = more defenseless people...

You will never stop the violence but you can prevent the horror of unresponded violence.

 

[KenR]

I'm sure that there was plenty of mayhem occurring as a result of Katrina. But I think that some of these doomsday scenarios might be a bit...extreme?

 

[A-train]

Well said Dr Pain!

 

[Dr_Pain]

I'm sure that there was plenty of mayhem occurring as a result of Katrina. But I think that some of these doomsday scenarios might be a bit...extreme?

I won't deny your comment since I, myself, called them "end days" but according to our own scientist, we should be seeing the ocean levels rise by as much as 13-20 feet within our lifetime (if nothing changes and the polar ice caps and Greenland melt). This in itself would displace, and render homeless tens of millions of people (here in our good old US of A). Do you think our current economy and infrastructure could support 20-30 million refugees? It would disrupt commerce, manufacturing, throw our economy for a major loop..... and as sensitive as Wall Street is, would send our economy into a major tail spin (resulting in worldwide economic collapses). The sea level would affect us greatly, but would devastate MANY other countries. And then what?

My point is not to support "preppers" and conspiracy theories and doomsday scenarios but one where you owe it to yourself and your countryman to PROVIDE and PROTECT your own self. Can't really do that if the government says that you are too irresponsible to be responsible, Can you?!?!? More laws won't solve a thing. It just gives us a reason why we can't be involved.... and being lazy by nature, we just take it!, and what ever happens, happens. Oh well!

All is well till you get caught with your pants down!

 

[A-train]

I'm sure that there was plenty of mayhem occurring as a result of Katrina. But I think that some of these doomsday scenarios might be a bit...extreme?

I don't call a total financial collapse or a nuclear attack...extreme. I call those real threats.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

 

[RedXray]

With the horrible Tragedy at Sandy Hook, the focus (and rightfully so) of the nation has bypassed the recent Portland, Clackamas Mall shooting. Now it turns out a CCW holder was consequential in stopping the shooter that was armed with an AR-15 assault rifle, preventing further bloodshed.

You will NOT hear this story from the anti gun crowd or any of the mainstream media outlets.
[video=youtube_share;BuLgO4wo4xI"]Portland Mall Shooter Stopped by CCW holder, Media lies by omission. - YouTube[/video]

 

[Flash Gordon]

God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life.

I am commanded by God to provide for my loved ones. Shelter, food, love... defense. If defending my family then killing is justifiable.

1 Timothy 5:8

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Here is one of my favorites - Proverbs 25:26 "A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well."

Certainly we would be faltering before the wicked if we chose to do nothing and not be prepared to resist an assailant who might be threatening our or another life.

Flash, If someone intended you or a loved one what would your response be?

Here Jesus SAYS, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

A sword was the assault weapon of the day.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Man I could go on and on. The Bible is pack full of versus that command us to defend against wicked with many verses telling us to take up a sword.

Jesus said:
"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

 

[Fast Eddie]

Okay, here's the $64 question. Other than (as previously mentioned) for competitions, why would anyone (we are talking law abiding citizens) want to own assault or semi-automatic weapons? Unless you are trying to take down a small army of baddies, isn't it overkill?

Every time I go to the range, there are AR15's and AK47's, they are target shooting. I would assume people would want these firearms for target shooting. These target shooters are not building any army, they are soccer moms, lawyers, doctors etc who like to shoot on the weekend. You can target shoot with a ruger 10/22, but some want a better firearm, which the AR15 platform offers, and you can wax your car with turtle wax, but many want Fuzion because they feel it's better. :xyxthumbs:

 

[ObsessiveAutoDetail]

Jesus said:
"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

If spouting religious rhetoric and feel good scripture makes you feel good, by all means go for it. IF you have a bad guy break into your home and threaten your family, spout off all the religious BS you care to. Myself, I am putting two his chest be it an evil Glock or an even more evil AR-15... or maybe even my AR-10. No questions asked and no hesitation.

 

[ObsessiveAutoDetail]

Every time I go to the range, there are AR15's and AK47's, they are target shooting. I would assume people would want these firearms for target shooting. These target shooters are not building any army, they are soccer moms, lawyers, doctors etc who like to shoot on the weekend. You can target shoot with a ruger 10/22, but some want a better firearm, which the AR15 platform offers, and you can wax your car with turtle wax, but many want Fuzion because they feel it's better. :xyxthumbs:

Well put.

 

[cardaddy]

God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life.

I am commanded by God to provide for my loved ones. Shelter, food, love... defense.


.....6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'


The Bible is pack full of versus that command us to defend against wicked with many verses telling us to take up a sword.

Joe,
I (like most I suspect) have been reading this thread and keep telling myself to just stay out of it. With your first post I almost jumped in. :dblthumb2: Reminds me of the "No Tresspassing" sign that says "tresspasers will be shot, Survivors will be shot again". People, even the nut-cases will and do pay attention to whether or not the people they intend to extend deadly harm to are willing to defend themselves via deadly force. As has been mentioned in this thread, these violent people just don't walk into a police station full of armed officers and start waving guns. They are NUTS but generally they are not STUPID. FWIW, there is no cure for stupid!

I had a store clerk that once asked me about CCW. (and yes I've carried since the mid 70's) We discussed the improved background checks (which could be even better IMO) and that if someone has a CCW they have been checked out, and most likely go to the range enough to at least be effective with their weapon. Plus a great deal of CCW holders also have had training, classes, live fire exercises etc. Well he went from thinking everyone with a firearm is bad, to understanding that the 'legal' ones are actually someone you would want in your store when the SHTF.

Go back a few months later and he's now attended some classes and has his CCW. He now has a pro-active attitude, and goes to the range weekly. Plus he's taped a target on the door showing his grouping pattern. "Well done" I said, then his reply was most disturbing! He said that the Sheriff had told him to take the target down, that it "brings in the wrong people". WTH.... "Brings in the wrong people like WHO?" I screamed. If anything, a bad guy, seeing that you are capable of center mass as well as head shots will think again should he stroll in thinking he's going to rob you of a hundred dollars while you are unable to defend yourself. As is typical, the general public is looked upon as 'citizens' and just too dumb to know the difference between bad and good. Much less able to actually, accurately, and quickly, put lead downrange on target.

Nobody 'needs' a firearm, a Doberman, a big ol' SUV or say thirty grand worth of surround sound, but if you do have them then you need to take care of them and they'll take care of you. If you happen to have any of them you know they can cause damage if not used responsibly. Heck, my wife complains when I put plastic protector on the running boards of our 2 SUV’s and says she’s going to break her leg getting in and out. Nobody “needs” a clean, detailed vehicle either.

The gun shoots the dog that might bite the people in the SUV. Then the SUV goes careening off through a house and crushes the people inside because they were cranking it up to a AC/DC concert on blu-ray and never heard it coming in the first place. Who is responsible for that? The dog owner, the weapon owner, the AKC (and its breeders), GMC, or the fantastic stereo?

Bottom line, say your prayers and look out for your safety as well as those around you. Put up any and all signs that’ll deter those that wish you harm and hope against all hope that ‘that’ is all it takes. And fwiw, the guy in the mall did the right thing! If had escalated he likely would have had to take that shot. In the meantime, the 'bad guy'j had to pause, which saved lives. Then everyone got lucky as he took his own. (Thinning the heard, which may be the best solution yet.)

A sign at my front door reads;
Warning, this house is protected by a spoiled rotten Doberman!

If you make it inside she'll lick you to death, by then I'll have "thinned the heard".