Tom Horvath Owner SYSTEM ONE

In his article for Auto Laundry news nearly 10 years ago, Kevin Farrell does hint that using adequate amounts of polishing compounds "will act as a lubricant and slow the swirling process down". This is what got me wondering if using an adequate amount of lubricant (on the order of what is used in the S1X3 videos) can actually prevent wool marring. Then compound it with nano abrasives that will work for a longer period of time without that initial heavy cut that might be introducing swirling/hazing/marring.
 
Derrick said:
Tom,
Do you think a good dust mask will keep system one's nano powders out or are the particles to small for the mask to be effective? I hear that aluminum oxide dust can destroy the lungs. I know I was hurting after using the product and I thought I kept the surface wet.
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Yes to the dust mask, Aluminum oxide can be considered a nuisance and has no known health hazards, Aluminum Oxide is used in toothpaste.
But Crystalline silica has allot of issue as per California law see web site
Crystalline Silica Exposure
What is crystalline silica?
Crystalline silica is a basic component of soil, sand, granite, and many other minerals. Quartz is the most common form of crystalline silica. Cristobalite and tridymite are two other forms of crystalline silica. All three forms may become respirable size particles when workers chip, cut, drill, or grind objects that contain crystalline silica.
What are the hazards of crystalline silica?
Silica exposure remains a serious threat to nearly 2 million U.S. workers, including more than 100,000 workers in high risk jobs such as abrasive blasting, foundry work, stonecutting, rock drilling, quarry work and tunneling. Crystalline silica has been classified as a human lung carcinogen. Additionally, breathing crystalline silica dust can cause silicosis, which in severe cases can be disabling, or even fatal. The respirable silica dust enters the lungs and causes the formation of scar tissue, thus reducing the lungs’ ability to take in oxygen. There is no cure for silicosis. Since silicosis affects lung function, it makes one more susceptible to lung infections like tuberculosis. In addition, smoking causes lung damage and adds to the damage caused by breathing silica dust.
 
ZoranC said:
Very constructive and no nonsense approach/suggestion!

:applause:
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Thanks I would like to see this stay no nonsense and become informative! Let the product talk for it's self I say ! :buffing:
 
Tom Horvath said:
Yes to the dust mask, Aluminum oxide can be considered a nuisance and has no known health hazards, Aluminum Oxide is used in toothpaste.
But Crystalline silica has allot of issue as per California law see web site
Crystalline Silica Exposure
What is crystalline silica?
Crystalline silica is a basic component of soil, sand, granite, and many other minerals. Quartz is the most common form of crystalline silica. Cristobalite and tridymite are two other forms of crystalline silica. All three forms may become respirable size particles when workers chip, cut, drill, or grind objects that contain crystalline silica.
What are the hazards of crystalline silica?
Silica exposure remains a serious threat to nearly 2 million U.S. workers, including more than 100,000 workers in high risk jobs such as abrasive blasting, foundry work, stonecutting, rock drilling, quarry work and tunneling. Crystalline silica has been classified as a human lung carcinogen. Additionally, breathing crystalline silica dust can cause silicosis, which in severe cases can be disabling, or even fatal. The respirable silica dust enters the lungs and causes the formation of scar tissue, thus reducing the lungs’ ability to take in oxygen. There is no cure for silicosis. Since silicosis affects lung function, it makes one more susceptible to lung infections like tuberculosis. In addition, smoking causes lung damage and adds to the damage caused by breathing silica dust.
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So are you saying that X3 has Crystalline silica in it?
 
I believe Tom was pointing out the dangers in Crystalline Silica used in other abrasives.
 
I picked mine up today. It has been sitting at the post office for a few days :). Im excited to try it. Thanks tom
 
Sa//|XP said:
In his article for Auto Laundry news nearly 10 years ago, Kevin Farrell does hint that using adequate amounts of polishing compounds "will act as a lubricant and slow the swirling process down". This is what got me wondering if using an adequate amount of lubricant (on the order of what is used in the S1X3 videos) can actually prevent wool marring. Then compound it with nano abrasives that will work for a longer period of time without that initial heavy cut that might be introducing swirling/hazing/marring.
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I agree that adding lubrication would reduce or eliminate the wool marring from occuring, so wiping a dry wool pad across the paint isn't fool proof test, but it does say that the fibers themselves will marr paint (they some cut to them), the same as it proves that LC's blue pad will not cause marring if rubbed across dry and has zero cut.

Adding the lubricant to the pad and rubbing it over the paint wouldn't be as accurate as spinning the pad at 1200-2000 RPM over the paint, then wiping clean and inspecting the finish. I would assume that a 100 percent wool would still leave significant marring. Who knows until it is done of course.
 
i am getting my edge blue wool pad and 100% edge wool pad and will be doing alot of test on monday
 
Tom, thanks for the answer to my question, i will purchase a bottle and see how it compares to my other polishes.
 
TH0001 said:
I'm taking it my questions are not going to be answered?
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Are you referring to the ones in this post?

#63

I don't think he's avoiding you, but this thread is pretty hairy and the guy does run a polish and wax company PLUS a custom auto body shop so I'm guessing he's pretty busy.

I do think some of the questions were answered...like he hasn't tried Menzerna.

If it's not too much trouble, can you list the questions again? Just a thought to make it easier on him. I would like to hear the answers as well. :D
 
TH0001 said:
I would say the majority of swirl marks are caused by improper washing techniques, which is why 99 percent of cars I see at the dealerships, washed with shop brushes, have swirl marks. Proper buffing technqiues do not instill swirl marks IME.



In all fairness, of course a compound is going to mar the paint as your hand is cannot replicate the conditions required to evenly break down the abrasives. However, polishing with a machine, which these products are designed for, will not. If you are saying that using a compound by hand is will cause a degredation in paint quality, I agree. By the same token, using a finishing polish by hand will not.



To truthfully look at it, I would be stuck on the fact that a rubbing compound is being compared to a finishing polish, and would judge the results on those merits only.



Most body shop guys I know do not know how to properly polish paint. If worked properly, then buffing will not cause swirl marks but remove them. Almost every body shop I have dealt with (and many that have been in bussiness for a long time) have had very poor polishing technqiue, as do most detailers. Luckly, places like the Geek and autopia exist, where proper techniques are developed and shared.



Completely dependent on the type of abrasive and its structure. With proper technique, the result would be a flawless finish.






I am curious as which abrasives you have tested? While I would agree that X3 is less asgresive (and thus less dangerous) then a rubbing compound, but specically, how does it stand up in terms of aggresiveness compared to the nano technology abrasives found in Menzerna 106ff or PO85d? Since both of the polishes break down rather quick (as opposed to your abrasive which doesn't loose cut) it seems that they X3 would remove more paint over time, compared to an abrasive that has lost all its cutting power very quickly

That said, if we still have to remove 1/10 of the clear coat, it doesn't matter how its done, that amount of paint still has to be removed. Whether we make 10 passes with a finishing polish or 1 pass with a compound and 1 pass with a finishing polish, the point is 1/10 still has to be removed.




So the abrasive structure is not the same as the fresh polish, so it has broken down?


Thank you



I understand your points, but any micro fine finishing polish can be used with similar results (allowing the pad to the cutting). For what its work, you take 3M Ultra Fina, wipe it one, make one pass across the paint (ensuring that the abrasives have not broken down) and wipe clean. And on all but the softest paints, you will have zero marring.

Thanks for taking the time Tom.
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Sorry TH 001 I'm new to this forum
Let me see if I can answer your questions
To the question of product testing, I've tested against all competitive products in the global market that have had a substantial market presents (above 20% share of specific market)

I hope that works
Thanks
 
Tom Horvath said:
Sorry TH 001 I'm new to this forum
Let me see if I can answer your questions
To the question of product testing, I've tested against all competitive products in the global market that have had a substantial market presents (above 20% share of specific market)

I hope that works
Thanks
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Tom, there is no need to apologize to me. I understand you are a busy man, and I truely appericate you coming here "under the fire" to answer all of our questions. I truely speaks very highly of you and your company, as well as means a lot to us. I am exicted to be able to ask honest and open questions and recieve truthful answers in return.

I think you will find that the autogeek/autopia crowd is very unique amongst your normal cliental. We are a small, select group who truely is passionate about what we do.

When you say you tested amongst the competition that holds 20% share or greater, that eliminates any testing against the products that we would commonly use. I would assume (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the body shop and refinishing industry demand is so much larger on a global scale then what we purchase. Pinnancle, Menzerna, Einziet, and even Meguiars is much smaller then the big boys like Auto Magic, 3M, etc.

As alluded to earlier in the thread, most of us do not use products that would hold a 20% percent share, because the demand for high quality polishes and compounds that do not have to meet certain price points is much smaller. So I am guessing it would be fair to say that you have not tested your product against the very high quality polishes (such as Menzerna, etc..) but rather against the more popular, product work stuff like Auto Magic and 3M?
 
TH0001 said:
Tom, there is no need to apologize to me. I understand you are a busy man, and I truely appericate you coming here "under the fire" to answer all of our questions. I truely speaks very highly of you and your company, as well as means a lot to us. I am exicted to be able to ask honest and open questions and recieve truthful answers in return.

I think you will find that the autogeek/autopia crowd is very unique amongst your normal cliental. We are a small, select group who truely is passionate about what we do.

When you say you tested amongst the competition that holds 20% share or greater, that eliminates any testing against the products that we would commonly use. I would assume (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the body shop and refinishing industry demand is so much larger on a global scale then what we purchase. Pinnancle, Menzerna, Einziet, and even Meguiars is much smaller then the big boys like Auto Magic, 3M, etc.

As alluded to earlier in the thread, most of us do not use products that would hold a 20% percent share, because the demand for high quality polishes and compounds that do not have to meet certain price points is much smaller. So I am guessing it would be fair to say that you have not tested your product against the very high quality polishes (such as Menzerna, etc..) but rather against the more popular, product work stuff like Auto Magic and 3M?
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Thank you for the kind words
The product we test against are what the majority of people feel are the best in the world.

And I believe the smaller companies have great products too, but there just is not enough time in the day to test every product out there.

And I agree the passion I see here is great, I was also very pleasantly surprised to find a great bunch of questions.
I really hope that you find the products that are the best
and I hope we can meet at the auto geek show.
 
iknow you say this is safe. but isnt every pure abrasive polish removing some clear? in order to relevel paint to a swirlfree shine.
 
Here we go... the answer to all Your questions!!!!!

BUY A SMALL BOTTLE!!!! it's $15, try it for yourself,this thread could go on for 10 yrs and some people still would not be satisfied... take the product to paint yourself

that's the only way your gonna get the answer your looking for... everything being talked about if figurative, literal would be using the product for urself
 
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