Topping AIO’s with Sealant - Basic test

joleyred said:
I recently polished with Menzerna, and then went to Blackfires new paint sealant. I put the sealant on with a black Lake Country foam pad. It wiped off very nicely and looked good. This is on my black Denali work truck that I had applied McKees paint coating on last year. I wasn't real impressed with the paint coating, both from an endurance standpoint and also resistance to spotting. The sealant seems to look better and be more resistant to spotting, both water spotting and from bird crap. It still is beading nice and washing easy. In my opinion, the paint color has a big effect on all this. My Denali is black, my personal truck is white, coated with Carpro. The difference in ease of maintenance isn't even comparable. There is never a water spot on the white truck. I coated my wife's car, which is gray, and it never shows any spots either. For me, the color will help me determine what process and what product I will be using.

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Those defects just might be on the white & gray, but you can't detect them as easily.

Like someone here once said: Black paint isn't just a color. It's a full-time job......

That said, I'm not a fan of coatings. If they were truly maintenance-free afterward, maybe. But having to maintain the initially $$ product with more $$ products does not jibe with me. JMHO....
 
joleyred said:
I recently polished with Menzerna, and then went to Blackfires new paint sealant. I put the sealant on with a black Lake Country foam pad. It wiped off very nicely and looked good. This is on my black Denali work truck that I had applied McKees paint coating on last year. I wasn't real impressed with the paint coating, both from an endurance standpoint and also resistance to spotting. The sealant seems to look better and be more resistant to spotting, both water spotting and from bird crap. It still is beading nice and washing easy. In my opinion, the paint color has a big effect on all this. My Denali is black, my personal truck is white, coated with Carpro. The difference in ease of maintenance isn't even comparable. There is never a water spot on the white truck. I coated my wife's car, which is gray, and it never shows any spots either. For me, the color will help me determine what process and what product I will be using.

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V1 or v2 of McKees?

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mwoywod said:
Thanks for testing these Eldo! Only thing I noticed that may have caused an issue with HD Speed was how much product you used? Just curious, how many section passes did you use with each product?

That hologram looking product haze that was left behind with HD Speed in your test is what I've experienced with D166. More recently, I had the same issue with Jescar AIO Polish & wax. I think it's the sealant in some AIO's that is being left behind because I've noticed right when I hit it with wolfgang uber it's easily removed. I used to think D166 was leaving behind a ton of micro marring because of the haze that wouldn't wipe off with a dry microfiber.

That's a big part of why I prefer HD Speed & BF 1-step. For me, even though it's easy to use a quick detailer to inspect the finish, HD Speed has always been the least likely to leave behind any of that cloudy sealant residue.

Is there a name for the haze AIO's can leave behind that doesn't get fully buffed off the paint with a dry microfiber towel? I feel like dlc95 probably knows the technical term for this phenomenon.
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Ha!

Well, I refer to those types of things as "deposits". Where the matrix of all the components dries out, and adheres to the surface.

Ultimate Polish, M205, and M105 seem to be the most common culprits in my experience. But I do most of my work with Megs..

Also, I believe there was too much speed used on the pad.
I thought they recommended like four drops of product on the onset. No?
 
First thanks for doing this testing Eldo!

You wrote that you think the sealant removed the AIO protection when applyied. Is that right? And if so what would be the benefit of useing an AIO?

I'm always intrested in the thoughts about of useing the different steps. The thoughts I have about topping an AIO directly after polishing. Is if the topper carrier chemical would be desolveing the AIO protection or just the polishing oils. Then if it's not desolves the polishing oils which a water based topper may not do. You may have a smeared application on hand. I can see a benefit to use an AIO and after a couple of washes apply a sealant or wax. But apply a topper right afterwards I would think a panel wipe product could be a benefit to the topper bonding better than without any prep.

So if I where to apply a more longlasting topper after polishing with an AIO or a polish. Why would I go with the AIO option?

Don't get me wrong cause I see the benefit of useing an AIO in a pro detailer point of view and to a hobbyist too. But not to make an extra step with applying a protection that has more longevity than the AIO. I see an AIO as a polishing and done product.
 
SWETM said:
You wrote that you think the sealant removed the AIO protection when applyied. Is that right? And if so what would be the benefit of useing an AIO?


So if I where to apply a more longlasting topper after polishing with an AIO or a polish. Why would I go with the AIO option?
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IMO the benefits are:

1. The looks. It’s more than arguable these AIO’s look better the day of vs. polish alone.

2. The filling instead of correcting. The way I see it this sort of product can fill the need for jobs where a customer wants their vehicle “waxed” aka we’re polishing their vehicle and making it look noticeably better + thanks to topping it with a long lasting sealant I’m providing them better value vs. the short lived AIO on its own which I wouldn’t even feel comfortable putting my stamp of approval on.

3. The filling instead of correcting also means I can polish a customers vehicle repeatedly without having to reach the imaginary limit where I begin to put a limit on the times I allow myself to polish their paint in order to prevent removing to much of the clearcoat. If I’m doing more filling it’s actually a good thing for both parties. Repeat customers without worries in the back of my head.

4. Ease of use. Some of these AIO’s not only wipe off easier, but they tend to leave the paint smoother too. Plus they can be left on for as long as you want without becoming a PITA to remove unlike a polish.

IMO if the AIO plays nice with the topper the way D166 did in my case with the sealant than there’s definitely benefits to be had. Same could be said for any AIO that pairs up nice with the other types of lsp’s.

I never thought I’d be on this side of the fence. Lol.
 
You very easily could be right on the defect visibility, also your statement about black is spot on. I like it when it's perfect, which never lasts long.
PaulMys said:
Those defects just might be on the white & gray, but you can't detect them as easily.

Like someone here once said: Black paint isn't just a color. It's a full-time job......

That said, I'm not a fan of coatings. If they were truly maintenance-free afterward, maybe. But having to maintain the initially $$ product with more $$ products does not jibe with me. JMHO....
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Eldorado2k said:
IMO the benefits are:

1. The looks. It’s more than arguable these AIO’s look better the day of vs. polish alone.

2. The filling instead of correcting. The way I see it this sort of product can fill the need for jobs where a customer wants their vehicle “waxed” aka we’re polishing their vehicle and making it look noticeably better + thanks to topping it with a long lasting sealant I’m providing them better value vs. the short lived AIO on its own which I wouldn’t even feel comfortable putting my stamp of approval on.

3. The filling instead of correcting also means I can polish a customers vehicle repeatedly without having to reach the imaginary limit where I begin to put a limit on the times I allow myself to polish their paint in order to prevent removing to much of the clearcoat. If I’m doing more filling it’s actually a good thing for both parties. Repeat customers without worries in the back of my head.

4. Ease of use. Some of these AIO’s not only wipe off easier, but they tend to leave the paint smoother too. Plus they can be left on for as long as you want without becoming a PITA to remove unlike a polish.

IMO if the AIO plays nice with the topper the way D166 did in my case with the sealant than there’s definitely benefits to be had. Same could be said for any AIO that pairs up nice with the other types of lsp’s.

I never thought I’d be on this side of the fence. Lol.
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Do the sealant seal in the filling the AIO has till it's done?
And do you get the same longevity from the topped sealant as with a sealant applyied on bare paint?
Do you have any done cars coming back and about how long does it takes or do you have a regualar maintance schedule with customer?
Lets say that you use an AIO and compare it to the polish of the same brand. You use the same pads. Does the polish abrade so much more clearcoat that in the longrun you came to the point where it's not longer safe to polish/remove more clearcoat? Cause the d166 seems to have a good cut to be an AIO.

And this is just for me to get experience from you. And not trying to convince you to change your mind.
 
SWETM said:
Do the sealant seal in the filling the AIO has till it's done?
And do you get the same longevity from the topped sealant as with a sealant applyied on bare paint?
Do you have any done cars coming back and about how long does it takes or do you have a regualar maintance schedule with customer?
Lets say that you use an AIO and compare it to the polish of the same brand. You use the same pads. Does the polish abrade so much more clearcoat that in the longrun you came to the point where it's not longer safe to polish/remove more clearcoat? Cause the d166 seems to have a good cut to be an AIO.

And this is just for me to get experience from you. And not trying to convince you to change your mind.
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I’m not the best person to ask. I don’t normally use AIO’s on that frequent basis to have the definitive answers yet. But I’ll go out on a limb and say that I’m pretty sure the sealant will last just as long no problem. Because I have little to no doubt it removed anything resembling an AIO during the quik application/removal. I could literally feel it, and the paints uniform look, feel, and water behavior shows it, barring any sudden changes which would be the biggest surprise of all, and I don’t see how that could happen. But if it does I’ll be sure to update.

I wish I knew how to post videos from my iPhone
 
PaulMys said:
That said, I'm not a fan of coatings. If they were truly maintenance-free afterward, maybe. But having to maintain the initially $$ product with more $$ products does not jibe with me. JMHO....
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I'm pretty new at this, but I kinda agree, even though I've purchased CQUK 3.0 (didn't use yet) and Reload.
Just curious, what do you use then, just wax I'm assuming. I've used the Collinite 845 and like it pretty well. Use Ech2o and the Ech2o/Reload mixture on top of that which worked pretty well for me.
 
SWETM said:
Do the sealant seal in the filling the AIO has till it's done?
And do you get the same longevity from the topped sealant as with a sealant applyied on bare paint?
Do you have any done cars coming back and about how long does it takes or do you have a regualar maintance schedule with customer?
Lets say that you use an AIO and compare it to the polish of the same brand. You use the same pads. Does the polish abrade so much more clearcoat that in the longrun you came to the point where it's not longer safe to polish/remove more clearcoat? Cause the d166 seems to have a good cut to be an AIO.

And this is just for me to get experience from you. And not trying to convince you to change your mind.
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Many of my customers bring me their cars every 6 months and depending on budget I'll almost always use HD Speed with a white polishing pad to deep clean the paint from any road grime or traffic film that wasn't removed during the washing or claying process and to bring out incredible gloss. I then always apply a paint sealant. I've never had an issue where the paint sealant only lasting a few weeks because it wasn't able to properly bond over HD Speed BUT someone else in this thread I believe said they DID have an issue when they applied WGDGPS over an AIO where the water behavior of WGDGPS was virtually non-existent after a month.

Polish doesn't necessarily remove more clearcoat than an AIO. If you use HD Speed with the exact same pad, machine, speed, pressure, passes, etc as you do with HD Polish+ you'll be removing roughly the same amount of clear coat.
 
h8dirtycars said:
I'm pretty new at this, but I kinda agree, even though I've purchased CQUK 3.0 (didn't use yet) and Reload.
Just curious, what do you use then, just wax I'm assuming. I've used the Collinite 845 and like it pretty well. Use Ech2o and the Ech2o/Reload mixture on top of that which worked pretty well for me.
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I use Speed to knock out my light blemishes, then either 845, or 476s. The Speed provides incredible gloss/slickness, and topped with either of the Collinite brothers, I can easily get 6 months (until I correct again) here in NY.

When I use up most of the Collinite, I want to try HD Poxy as well.
 
mwoywod said:
Many of my customers bring me their cars every 6 months and depending on budget I'll almost always use HD Speed with a white polishing pad to deep clean the paint from any road grime or traffic film that wasn't removed during the washing or claying process and to bring out incredible gloss. I then always apply a paint sealant. I've never had an issue where the paint sealant only lasting a few weeks because it wasn't able to properly bond over HD Speed BUT someone else in this thread I believe said they DID have an issue when they applied WGDGPS over an AIO where the water behavior of WGDGPS was virtually non-existent after a month.

Polish doesn't necessarily remove more clearcoat than an AIO. If you use HD Speed with the exact same pad, machine, speed, pressure, passes, etc as you do with HD Polish+ you'll be removing roughly the same amount of clear coat.
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Thanks for shareing your experience!

I see the benefit of an AIO to clean the paint. And it's great if a sealant can get the 6 months longevity on top of Speed.

That's a thing I have been wondering about how a water based polish cleans the paint. The old and some of the polish that is solvent based maybe cleaned it better. When doing a one step polish there could be a better result with a AIO which is often both chemical cleaners and fine abrasives in them.
 
Anyone see any specific worry’s about PBL sealant (resin-based) on top of Speed?
 
Update: Ok it’s been exactly 2 months and things aren’t what they should be... I did the 1st bucket wash in a while, possibly the 1st actual bucket wash since the beginning of this test and check it out. [washed with Megs Hyper Wash]

This is post wash.

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Prior to this wash, the car had only been touched twice.
1st time was a normL waterless wash w/WG Uber about a week after the start of the test.

2nd time was a waterless wash w/Uber following a pre rinse with the hose nozzle to knock off the majority of the dirt before the waterless wipedown.

The 2nd wipedown mentioned here^ was about 3 weeks ago and I did notice a dramatic lack of beading/proper water behavior on both trunk and the hood... But I didn’t pay much attention since the car had just been parked and not driven for about 5 straight weeks.

I’ll have to test this again just to make sure it’s not a fluke, but I’ve never seen my paint just go dead like this after just 8 weeks.
 
I missed this thread - working too much. Excellent post and nice test you have going. Looking forward to seeing how the how the follow up goes.
 
Thanks for doing this Eldo. Your conclusion is exactly what I expected. In my experience sealants and waxes are short lived benefits. They look good for about a month for me. I don't have that much time to constantly be reapplying. I like to polish before I reapply, which for me takes too long.

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