Topping an all in one with a second product...?

fiveoboy01

fiveoboy01

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Good morning guys, new member, moderately longtime lurker. Recently jump started some life into a new detail business. Trying to work 60 hours a week to avoid working 40... I'm doing jobs here and there as I get setup, refine the packages I have available, get insurance setup, etc etc..

I'm struggling a bit with my production detail package(as Mr Phillips likes to call it)... Chosen product is HD Speed, and I'm struggling with whether or not including an application on top of it for some extra protection(IE, HD Poxy) is a wise decision... Obviously there is a time element to it which changes the price.. Is it necessary? Does the production detail client even care(I think I may know the answer)? Trying to find the balance between the production detail price/profit, giving the car adequate protection even if shorter term, and what the customer will want/care about here. I'm really trying to limit myself to how many packages and a la carte items I'm offering, as I prefer a more simple, streamlined menu.

Thank you in advance for the help:)

Edit - apologies if this needs to be in the business section of the forum. The coffee hasn't finished brewing this morning.
 
With HD Speed, great results come from topping it with Poxy as you mentioned (made by 3D as well). Other than that if someone likes a different sealant or coating, I strip the wax from Speed off prior to application. Others may have had experience with other LSP's on top of Speed.

In my experience with Speed, time is important. The proof is the length of beading properties of Speed when I have let it sit longer on the car. What I do is get my test spot done. Once I have my testing complete, finish the entire car without wiping the HD Speed off. Then begin wiping where I started application...this typically gives me 30 minutes to an hour of letting Speed sit on the paint.


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If you are in more of a production detailing scenario where you are pressed more for time I would apply a spray wax for an extra boost of protection and focus your efforts on other areas of the vehicle such as the door jambs, wheel wells, exhaust tip etc to finish up in a timely manner.
 
adamgayton81 said:
With HD Speed, great results come from topping it with Poxy as you mentioned (made by 3D as well). Other than that if someone likes a different sealant or coating, I strip the wax from Speed off prior to application.


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Click to expand...

Can you tell us how you strip the wax from Speed off prior to application?


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.


fiveoboy01 said:
Good morning guys, new member, moderately longtime lurker.

Recently jump started some life into a new detail business. Trying to work 60 hours a week to avoid working 40... I'm doing jobs here and there as I get setup, refine the packages I have available, get insurance setup, etc etc..
Click to expand...

Since this is your first post,

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:



fiveoboy01 said:
I'm struggling a bit with my production detail package (as Mr Phillips likes to call it)...

Chosen product is HD Speed, and I'm struggling with whether or not including an application on top of it for some extra protection (IE, HD Poxy) is a wise decision...
Click to expand...

It's a great practice that can make the results of your work last longer.

Even if you only do it to the horizontal surfaces which take the brunt of abuse and wear-n-tear from use and the world we live in.

It's also called,

Under promise and over deliver - a concept and a practice I teach in all my detailing classes.


fiveoboy01 said:
Obviously there is a time element to it which changes the price.. Is it necessary?
Click to expand...

It's not necessary and if you choose to do it then only hit the horizontal surfaces and this will reduce time to minutes.

The key is to find a compatible product to use over the 3D HD Speed for the term I coined,

Synergistic Chemical Compatibility

In most cases, a NON-cleaning wax or sealant from the same chemist/company will do the trick.



fiveoboy01 said:
Does the production detail client even care(I think I may know the answer)?
Click to expand...

The production client won't know or notice unless you point it out via educate them.


fiveoboy01 said:
Trying to find the balance between the production detail price/profit, giving the car adequate protection even if shorter term, and what the customer will want/care about here.

I'm really trying to limit myself to how many packages and a la carte items I'm offering, as I prefer a more simple, streamlined menu.

Thank you in advance for the help:)
Click to expand...

I'm impressed.

You've really been doing your homework.

Finding balance is vital and doing exceptional work is what separates you from your competition.

I'd recommend that if you decide to run an orbital polisher over the hood and trunk, (maybe skip the roof if it's taller than you can reach without getting on a platform), using 3D HD Poxy, then don't tell the customer until they return to pick up their car.

Then explain what you did and why you did it and this will impress most people with functioning brain cells as well as separate you form the competition.

The fact that you joined this forum and made this post has already separated you from the competition.


:)
 
adamgayton81 said:
Other than that if someone likes a different sealant or coating, I strip the wax from Speed off prior to application.
Click to expand...


Kind of makes sense.... this would no longer being doing a one-step to a car but a two-step.

I'm thinking if someone wants a dedicated application of a dedicated LSP then I wouldn't start with Speed but instead use a compound or polish.


That or I would simply apply the dedicated LSP over the Speed. The only reason this wouldn't work is if the person wanted a ceramic coating but if that was the case then I certainly wouldn't use a cleaner/wax for the prep work.


:)
 
Customer's budget and your time is the challenge to get dialed in. You're are on the right track with your thinking.

Also getting car prepped for polishing takes an hour and half or so. (wash, decon, wheels, dry etc.) Which adds to overall cost.

HD speed is a true one step. Don't need to add wax. Just add extra wax to your a al carte list.

See link for good overall primer re one step by Joe.

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...es-maximize-your-profits-time-efficiency.html

Tom
 
For what it's worth, I have topped HD speed with Poxy before and after 2 months on a well kept daily driver the protection was all but gone. Was less than impressed with the potentially added benefit of tipping speed with poxy
 
Thank you for all the replies.

I've owned and operated a landscape maintenance company for over a decade... ergo, I have some business experience. I've made plenty of mistakes, and won't repeat them here. I love working on cars, but I'm also not doing it for charity.

A spray wax didn't cross my mind but that piques my interest. Would be fast and easy which is the name of the game.

As well I like the idea of not officially listing it and just doing horizontal surfaces. Tell the customer "I did extra for you, for the same price"... I love(most) customers, but like to make them feel loved, as well.

A full wash and decon was mentioned, and this is part of the production detail pricing. Also struggling a bit with whether or not to do a 2 step decon(iron remover and clay) or just one(clay only)... Again, time = price increase. Gotta be careful with that, lol.

I could do it a la carte but again in trying to keep the menu simple, it makes it easier for me, and the customer. My experience also tells me that the more a la carte items I have, the more likely I am to get into a "nit pick" situation where the customer is creating the package, not me.

PS - Mike, I have read your book, and found it educational. Thanks for writing it:) (double edit - one of them, anyways)
 
In my opinion, if you're using an "All In One" product, there is no reason to top it with something more durable.

If you want to perform the extra step of applying another layer of protection, just use a pure polish to begin with rather than an AIO. It is the same amount of work, and you'll likely get better defect removal and refinement out of a traditional polish than compromising with an AIO.

I would have 2 separate packages:
- AIO exterior detail (lower cost to customer, less time for you, promote shiny & clean results at a great price)
- Light Polish + Sealant (higher cost to customer, slightly more time for you, push the longer lasting protection on customers who care about that)
 
ShaneB said:
For what it's worth, I have topped HD speed with Poxy before and after 2 months on a well kept daily driver the protection was all but gone. Was less than impressed with the potentially added benefit of tipping speed with poxy
Click to expand...

What about topping the horizontal surfaces with a known durable product like Collinite, etc.?

Additionally, if and only if you can sense the customer is interested in prolonging what you have done you might show them the value of post-wash quick detailer made from diluted rinseless wash and wax (Optimum, McKees come to mind but there are others) will go a long way to preserving what they have paid you for.

$8 for this: Optimum No Rinse Wash & Wax, no rinse car wash, rinse free car wash, optimum no rinse or this: McKee's 37 Rinse Free Wash & Wax 4 oz. and $6 for a spray bottle like this: 36 Ounce Detail Bottle plus a few MF towels, an explanation of how to dilute these products for maximum effectiveness and how they can really extend and prolong what you have done for them.

You can write this up on a post-detail page explaining the process of using a quick detailer/drying agent after washing. When I was at the doctor for a physical he gave me some info sheets explaining blood pressure and sunscreen to avoid UV which helped me to understand how to stay healthier.
 
lane5515 said:
Can you tell us how you strip the wax from Speed off prior to application?


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Click to expand...

The best method I have found for myself is stripping each panel with a paint prep such as GG's Paint Prep, WG-4400, or even IPA, then washing each panel with a RW...but of course this takes away from a "speedy production detail".


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Huh, I didn't know those products removed waxes from vehicles. I thought they just removed the oils leftover from polishes.


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Route246 said:
What about topping the horizontal surfaces with a known durable product like Collinite, etc.?
Click to expand...

What if you don't wait 12hrs. for the sealant in HD Speed to cure before you do it?
There used to be a bunch of rules [for lack of a better word] that everyone used to follow or at least be aware of. Nowadays there's so many toys in the toolbox that all those so called rules get thrown out the window.

For example I could've sworn the gospel used to state that a coating must be removed before re applying another coat.. But today we're raving about how doing 3-4 coats is sweet.

Top your AIO, which has 1 form of protection with a different longer lasting form of protection immediately after you're done applying the AIO... Or better yet, top it with a spray wax because 2 layers of protection are better than 1. Nevermind that talk about the solvents in the spray wax possibly removing the protection that was just layed down in the AIO and had no time to cure...

1 thing I know for sure: I love Hyper Dressing but I never ever put Hyper Dressing over tire coating because it all but ruins all the goodness of the tire coating. Doesn't it sort of work the same way, even a little bit for everything else?

I'm just sayin, sometimes we bend all the rules these days :)
 
lane5515 said:
Huh, I didn't know those products removed waxes from vehicles. I thought they just removed the oils leftover from polishes.


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Click to expand...

Waxes include some sort of oils in their manufacturing...but even with that said WG-4400 states it can be used to remove dried wax from plastics so why not paint too?


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fiveoboy01 said:
...Chosen product is HD Speed,

and I'm struggling with whether or
not including an application on top
of it for some extra protection
(IE, HD Poxy) is a wise decision...
Click to expand...
IMO:
-HD Speed is, relatively speaking,
an expensive production AIO...
@~$92/gallon.

{And you'd only be furthering the cost
of "this detailing package" by applying
an additional protection product---one
that either the Customers are willing to
pay for---or you'll wind up taking a pretty
good hit on your out of pocket expenses:
a negative effect on your bottom line/profit.}


Instead:
•Why not choose a different production
AIO, such as (among others):
Meguiar's D151

-It's priced @~$37.00/gallon;
-Has a wider range of correction ability
[being it's geared towards pad selection];
-Leaves behind long lasting (synthetic)
protection.



Bob
 
TMQ said:
Another good read...By Mike---

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru.../23142-difference-between-swirl-squirrel.html

Dich the a la carte and just have packages instead. Just offer specific suggestions in addition to your packages based on what customer is looking for.

Like Mike said---Here's the 4 things most people want,

1. Shiny Paint
2. Clear Glass
3. Black Tires
4. Fresh Clean Interior

Tom
Click to expand...

Thanks, Tom. I've already read that article.. it's a good one!

The only a la carte items I have on my list are headlight lens restoration and engine bay detail. I haven't included the latter in any detail packages because I feel that some people don't care about the underhood appearance when they never open it, lol. Maybe that's a mistake, or it should be included with the top level detail, I'm just not sure on that. I feel it's easier to piecemeal that one out...
 
Eldorado2k said:
What if you don't wait 12hrs. for the sealant in HD Speed to cure before you do it?
There used to be a bunch of rules [for lack of a better word] that everyone used to follow or at least be aware of. Nowadays there's so many toys in the toolbox that all those so called rules get thrown out the window.

For example I could've sworn the gospel used to state that a coating must be removed before re applying another coat.. But today we're raving about how doing 3-4 coats is sweet.

Top your AIO, which has 1 form of protection with a different longer lasting form of protection immediately after you're done applying the AIO... Or better yet, top it with a spray wax because 2 layers of protection are better than 1. Nevermind that talk about the solvents in the spray wax possibly removing the protection that was just layed down in the AIO and had no time to cure...

1 thing I know for sure: I love Hyper Dressing but I never ever put Hyper Dressing over tire coating because it all but ruins all the goodness of the tire coating. Doesn't it sort of work the same way, even a little bit for everything else?

I'm just sayin, sometimes we bend all the rules these days :)
Click to expand...

Production detailing does not render time for curing, waiting for shade of temps to drop or come up nor waiting for inclement weather conditions to pass. You have to have flexibility and be nimble because time is money.
 
Route246 said:
Production detailing does not render time for curing, waiting for shade of temps to drop or come up nor waiting for inclement weather conditions to pass. You have to have flexibility and be nimble because time is money.
Click to expand...

Perfect reason to use that AIO as it was intended, 1 and done.
Save the layering, topping, curing, perfecting, extra protecting, on vehicles that pay for that sort of attention. Certainly not "production" jobs.
 
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