Toyota Supra

So Derek0609 and I were talking today about the GR badge on the car (Gazoo Racing) and I said that they may be trying to get the brand out there, anyone have thoughts on this? I mean they already have TRD which is very well established, why not use IT?

Gazoo Racing is the Toyota buisness line which runs all of their factory sponsored racing programs around the world, i.e. their LMP1 car in the WEC, the WRC rally car, and (one I didn't know about) a GT-Class, LC-based car they raced in the 24hrs of Nurburgring. From what I understand the Gazoo Racing team had a hand in the body design and tuning of the Supra after they got the platform from BMW. I think they are trying to show the Supra is a legitimate sports car tightly integrated into their motorsports program (seen by the ability to turn fake vents into real ones), vs simply being associated with the TRD brand which is mostly a line of mild factory performance accessories you get at the dealer parts counter.

I would be very surprised if we don't seen a Supra running in GT-class racing in Asia and/or Europe. It might even be the basis for Toyota's future efforts in the top class of WEC racing when the LMP1 cars go away, which they have already committed to.

Also someone earlier mentioned that they didn't like the Lexus RC500 and I know its your opinion but that car hurts my neck everytime I see one! IMO its a concept car for the road and the only thing I CAN NOT STAND are the 21" wheels that come on the V8 model, they are ghastly....so ghastly that if I bought that car it wouldn't leave the lot with them on, I'd have a set of nice HRE's sent to the dealership and have them installed, my God are those wheels hideous, hell, the hybrid V6 model has nicer lookin' rims, why is so hard to come up with nice rims for a stunning car like that???

Do you mean the LC500? Yes, I too think it's a fantastic looking car. I don't think I'd want to take it to the track or a back-road blast through tight mountain roads, but it would be a perfect platform for a long road trip. The wheels don't bother me at all in any size. The design of the car is very concept-ish, like you mention, but I think a set of HRE's or something similar would be too traditional of a design and clash with the overall persona of the car...at least to my eyes, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and very personal. The car is a neck-snapper no matter how you slice it.
 
Really mixed feelings about this car.

Yes, it’s cool that it’s a 50/50 weight distribution rear drive turbo car, but it is barely a Toyota.

At first I thought it was a reworking of the FRS/BRS to fit a inline 6. Nope, built in the same plant as the Z4, and basically just a Z4 with different sheet metal.

Oh, but the styling is 100% Toyota!

New 2020 Toyota Supra A90 – A Resurrected Sports Car

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Really mixed feelings about this car.

Yes, it’s cool that it’s a 50/50 weight distribution rear drive turbo car, but it is barely a Toyota.

At first I thought it was a reworking of the FRS/BRS to fit a inline 6. Nope, built in the same plant as the Z4, and basically just a Z4 with different sheet metal.

Oh, but the styling is 100% Toyota!

Is that really a bad thing? The BMW B58 inline-6 engine is fantastic and probably one the best power plants I've ever driven. The suspension and unibody frame should be a thing of beauty as well as BMW is known as a leader on that front as well and the CLAR platform is getting great reviews in the Z4 and G30 3-series. For me I think the Japanese influences in the styling is the weak link in the package.

I don't understand all the hate surrounding the vehicle. Maybe it's because I'm brand agnostic in everything and don't get hung up on country of origin, but I see a RWD sports car tuned by Toyora's racing division with 50/50 balance, solid roof, running one of the best engines on the planet, and cheaper than a Cayman or F-Type. The only big failing is the lack of manual transmission, but I'm slowly resigning myself to that being a fact of life in the horrible US auto landscape.

I'm not trying to be the Supra cheerleader here, but I think people need to get some good seat time in the car before writing it off as a loser. Until there are some decent reviews and I get a test drive, I'll remain enthusiastic about another entry in the dying sports car market.
 
I took these at Media Day at the Chicago Auto Show this morning.
While I think that it looks better in person than in pictures, I'm not really thrilled by it.
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Is that really a bad thing? The BMW B58 inline-6 engine is fantastic and probably one the best power plants I've ever driven. The suspension and unibody frame should be a thing of beauty as well as BMW is known as a leader on that front as well and the CLAR platform is getting great reviews in the Z4 and G30 3-series. For me I think the Japanese influences in the styling is the weak link in the package.

I don't understand all the hate surrounding the vehicle. Maybe it's because I'm brand agnostic in everything and don't get hung up on country of origin, but I see a RWD sports car tuned by Toyora's racing division with 50/50 balance, solid roof, running one of the best engines on the planet, and cheaper than a Cayman or F-Type. The only big failing is the lack of manual transmission, but I'm slowly resigning myself to that being a fact of life in the horrible US auto landscape.

I'm not trying to be the Supra cheerleader here, but I think people need to get some good seat time in the car before writing it off as a loser. Until there are some decent reviews and I get a test drive, I'll remain enthusiastic about another entry in the dying sports car market.

I wouldn't call it just hate, more like extreme disappointment. You have the MKIV which is legendary, and when it was discontinued back in 2002 people always hoped that an MKV would become a reality and what that would mean to the Supra name. You had an amazing engine, easily holding 800+ HP on a stock bottom end and a bullet proof transmission capable of holding 1,700+ HP stock. The styling still draws crowds today and the value has only gone up. The interior, suspension and brakes were over engineered and ahead of its time.

When the FT1 was first introduced, the look was under scrutiny but anticipation of the motor and tranny brought hope that it would be as dominating a car as it was 25 years ago. The aftermarket mods alone made it an instant hit since it was so easy to make big power.

After all the waiting, we basically got a Z4 with an FRS/BRZ body. Most don't care if the car is made or not, the problem is with calling it a Supra. Toyota is largely seen as selling out by using BMW motor and tranny, and suspension I believe, and just a Toyota body. It's definitely not geared towards current and former Supra owners and fans, but the mass potential mass market of a new Z4/FRS fanbase.

The MKIV improved upon the MKIII is every way, and it was thought the MKV would do the same, but that isn't the case.
 
^^WHS^^^^^


And I'm betting all you stated above will reflect in anemic sales. My guess is they did it this way to minimize their development / investment costs.
 
I took these at Media Day at the Chicago Auto Show this morning.
While I think that it looks better in person than in pictures, I'm not really thrilled by it.
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:dunno:

I'm sure it will turn heads on the road, I'm just not sure the heads will be turning for the right reasons.
 
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"Let's go places"...yeah, like back to the drawing board:bat:
 
I like how people bash a car without seeing it in person and even writing it off without driving it. Although I would not buy one and the looks are subjective...I would rather drive the new Supra than a Mini, Focus, Escape, and probably 80% of cars on the road.
 
I like how people bash a car without seeing it in person and even writing it off without driving it. Although I would not buy one and the looks are subjective...I would rather drive the new Supra than a Mini, Focus, Escape, and probably 80% of cars on the road.
I'll see it inperson tomorrow and come back here with another take. That said, for $50K, I'm buying a Stinger GT AWD or maybe a used M2, at least the M2 says and shows what it really is. The Supra looks like an 86 except that door treatment which I think looks pretty cool, there, I said something good about it.

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My guess is they did it this way to minimize their development / investment costs.

This is exactly why they had a partnership and the same reason Toyota partnered with Subaru for the BRZ/86 twins and Fiat and Mazda teamed up with the Miata/124 platform.

Sports cars, or any real performance car these days, have VERY small margins once R&D and manufacturing costs are considered. Many manufactures bearly break even because the vehicles are expensive to develop, but sell in very small numbers. Considering the US market's afinity for huge bloated SUV's and trucks, this will only get worse. If any car maker wants to sell a performance car and not loose a ton of money on the effort they have to partner with someone.

The only reason Porsche, BMW, and some other makers still offer sports cars is because sales of things like the X5, Cayanne, Macan, and X3 sell in large enough numbers they can put the money into car development. Sad world auto enthusiasts live in today.
 
Has anyone seen the M8 concept?

It has the same rear end of the Supra. Seems like the collaboration between BMW and Toyota is a little more than just the Supra and Z4 powerplants.

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I wouldn't call it just hate, more like extreme disappointment. You have the MKIV which is legendary, and when it was discontinued back in 2002 people always hoped that an MKV would become a reality and what that would mean to the Supra name. You had an amazing engine, easily holding 800+ HP on a stock bottom end and a bullet proof transmission capable of holding 1,700+ HP stock. The styling still draws crowds today and the value has only gone up. The interior, suspension and brakes were over engineered and ahead of its time.

When the FT1 was first introduced, the look was under scrutiny but anticipation of the motor and tranny brought hope that it would be as dominating a car as it was 25 years ago. The aftermarket mods alone made it an instant hit since it was so easy to make big power.

After all the waiting, we basically got a Z4 with an FRS/BRZ body. Most don't care if the car is made or not, the problem is with calling it a Supra. Toyota is largely seen as selling out by using BMW motor and tranny, and suspension I believe, and just a Toyota body. It's definitely not geared towards current and former Supra owners and fans, but the mass potential mass market of a new Z4/FRS fanbase.

The MKIV improved upon the MKIII is every way, and it was thought the MKV would do the same, but that isn't the case.

Interesting thoughts. I guess that's where my automotive perspective differs. I couldn't care less about tuning the engine within an inch of it's life and am actually looking for a light, quick, corner carver for tight ozark roads, autocross, and track days. A 1700hp Supra would not be a good choice in those situations.

As for looks, the fourth generation Supra never did it for me. I respected the performance, but I always liked the styling of the second and third generation better.

I'll see it inperson tomorrow and come back here with another take. That said, for $50K, I'm buying a Stinger GT AWD or maybe a used M2, at least the M2 says and shows what it really is. The Supra looks like an 86 except that door treatment which I think looks pretty cool, there, I said something good about it.

Supra vs Stinger? Kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Other than price overlap I don't think they anything in common. The Stinger holds a strange place in my mind right now. I love the fact you can get a high HP RWD hatch-back sedan that looks pretty good. However the rear seats seem really tight when I tried to sit behind myself (and I'm only 5'9") and the reviews seem to elude to the fact the suspension is tuned a little softer than I'd like. Other than that there is no denying it's a well build vehicle.

A used M2 is on my personal short list too; right there with a used Cayman and now the Supra. The only thing which gives me a little concern about the M2 is it's weight. For any pre-2019 M2, it weighs 3600 lbs. That's nearly 300lbs heavier than the Supra and 600 lbs more than the Cayman! I'm really hoping you don't feel the weight. I need to test one out, but they are REALLY rare around here and I haven't seen one one in person in over two years!
 
Has anyone seen the M8 concept?

It has the same rear end of the Supra. Seems like the collaboration between BMW and Toyota is a little more than just the Supra and Z4 powerplants.

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From published interviews with BMW and Toyota, they quit talking to each other in 2014 to keep from there being any design cross-polination beyond the agreed upon common elements. The back ends do look rather similar.
 
I like how people bash a car without seeing it in person and even writing it off without driving it. Although I would not buy one and the looks are subjective...I would rather drive the new Supra than a Mini, Focus, Escape, and probably 80% of cars on the road.

It’s not the the looks for me personally. Doesn’t look bad. If a mustang used a Japanese turbo 6 from Honda or BMW started using Hyundai parts, the purist of those cars would be super upset too. You see it as a new car coming out with great parts and new design. Most would if it wasn’t a Supra. It’s like you love chick filet and went their and they were serving only burgers. Some would be like “these burgers are good! Others would be like dang it! If I wanted a burger I woulda went to F’ing Burger King! Most who are upset, disgusted, angry grew up with a place in their heart for the MKIV and JDM cars. IF I wanted a BMW Z4 I would by one.... it’s just all perspective, what does the “Supra” means to you.


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