Turtle hard shell wax

Edvinac said:
I did wash the car, that’s when I started to see them,

What product is consider a detail spray? All the quick detailers ? Or the spray waxes aswell? I only have experiences with spray waxes and you usually have to polish them out, as far as I know with QD all you do is spray and wipe it off since it’s not pure wax is water based and has a lot of lubricants right?

Going to inform you guys after another car wash and some elbow grease!


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If you washed and that showed the holograms, then they should be scratches in the paint. Detail sprays as mentioned are quick retailers, but I think you’ve ruled out the holograms being caused by leftover oils. Quick detailer or spray waxes aren’t going to help at this point unless you don’t want to polish and hoping to simply fill in some light scratches (holograms) with a spray wax that has fillers.

One other thing, just so we’re all on the same page... when we say “polish” here is Autogeek online, we mean using a dedicated abrasive polish to remove all dirt, waxes and correct defects. Sone brands use “polish” inconsistently as “wax” or “protectant”. For the purpose of people explaining things on this forum, polish is not used in the manner to describe a protectant with no correcting ability. I bring this up because you stated “spray waxes and you usually have to polish them out”. I think you mean “buff” (the act of wiping residue away with a clean towel) in that context.

So when people here say “polish to strip the wax”, we aren’t saying to keep rubbing the surface with a towel. We’re saying to buy a dedicated polish (including an AIO such as TW P&W being an option) and work backwards to re-clean and correct the paint to remove the hard shell protection. This brings you back to the point you were at prior to ever applying Hard Shell. Then apply something better than Hard She’ll. Don’t ever use it again given you ended up with these holograms as a result. It’s not your girlfriends fault. Let her know that.
 
PHP:
Sometimes Black vehicles and hard pastes, or certain waxes-sealants can spell trouble.

I know I told this story before here, a bought new black '94 Lincoln Town Car. A friend gave me 6 brand new bottles of the blue liquid Zymol that you'd commonly see at the Big Box Auto Parts Stores, and Wally World.

As someone once later told me, yep, this product was actually manufactured for Zymol by Turtle Wax-USA.

Working in the garage, I put it on, took it off, and man, what I saw was a nightmare. I guess the description lingo might vary amongst many, holograms, hazing, ghosting, looked like I waxed the Car with Crisco Shortening. Coming behind with a Detailer Spray was helping some, but not completely.

As I recall, I pulled out a good old standby that I never had problems with, Meguiars #20 Poly Sealant.

I did the entire vehicle again, tried a panel first to see what the results would be, all then looked great after, back to normal. Whew!

I wouldn't suspect scratching in this instance assuming the car's paint was clean when the Wax was applied.

Some hard pastes can be finnicky, drying times, the particular solvents in them, and working you pretty hard for both application and removal.

Was why I suggested trying other gentler alternatives first, rather than resorting to yanking out a DA and Polishing.

Immediately after, I then gave those 6 Bottles of Zymol away to someone else who said he loved the product. They weren't working for me.

No slight against Zymol, as I know they do make many top shelf products. To me, this one just didn't seem like one of them.
 
Just to chime in,

At this point, you need to get the affected panels cleaned, that is everything that's on them removed off of them and then inspect in good light, like good sunlight or some type of hand held light.

Figure out what, if any, problems are "in" the paint at this point.

Then let us know. If there are in fact swirls caused by the product or the application and/or removal of the product, AND you're working by hand - then the next thing will be to hand polish the paint using something like Meguiar's Ultimate Compound or at a minimum, Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax.

That or get a polisher and use one of the above only work by machine.


:)
 
Also...

The defects you're referring to are swirls, not holograms. Unless someone has buffed out your car with a rotary buffer and put holograms into the paint. :dunno:


See my article here,


The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

These are HOLOGRAMS

watermark.php




Holograms are not swirls. Holograms are but put into the paint by hand or with orbital polishers.

Holograms are a scratch-pattern specific to rotary buffers or rotary polishers, whatever name you like to call direct-drive, single rotation tools.



:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
Also...

The defects you're referring to are swirls, not holograms. Unless someone has buffed out your car with a rotary buffer and put holograms into the paint. :dunno:


See my article here,


The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

These are HOLOGRAMS

watermark.php




Holograms are not swirls. Holograms are but put into the paint by hand or with orbital polishers.

Holograms are a scratch-pattern specific to rotary buffers or rotary polishers, whatever name you like to call direct-drive, single rotation tools.



:)
Click to expand...

Exactly. I am getting holograms(not as bad as in the pictures ofcourse..), not swirls.

P.S. everyone says to strip polish with a DA, but I don’t have one.

P.P.S. Gonna snap some photos for you guys, actually shouldve sone that a long time ago


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Mike Phillips said:
If you're GETTING holograms - then stop using a rotary buffer to apply the wax.


Simple.


:)
Click to expand...

Don’t have neither have I used one ever. Maybe these could be some hidden shady work from when I got the car detailed last summer? Although I think I would have seen it by now


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Edvinac said:
P.S. everyone says to strip polish with a DA, but I don’t have one.
Click to expand...
You can strip wax by polishing by hand. I just don’t know how well you will be able to correct scratches by polishing by hand.
 
Edvinac said:
Maybe these could be some hidden shady work from when I got the car detailed last summer?
Click to expand...


If you're UNCOVERING or UNMASKING holograms then in order to remove them you must LEVEL the paint via abrading the paint with either a compound, polish or cleaner/wax.

Most people I've met in my life don't have the muscle, energy, skills or abilities to hand apply a compound, polish or cleaner/wax thoroughly and effectively enough to level hologram scratches over an entire car and most cannot do a single body panel.

Machine polishing with any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher is the way to go or try your hand at hand polishing.



:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
If you're UNCOVERING or UNMASKING holograms then in order to remove them you must LEVEL the paint via abrading the paint with either a compound, polish or cleaner/wax.

Most people I've met in my life don't have the muscle, energy, skills or abilities to hand apply a compound, polish or cleaner/wax thoroughly and effectively enough to level hologram scratches over an entire car and most cannot do a single body panel.

Machine polishing with any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher is the way to go or try your hand at hand polishing.



:)
Click to expand...

For now I will try to apply a quick spray wax and buff ir just a little bit, and going to take some before and after pics.

I guess the time has come to invest in a DA, always wanted one, never pulled the trigger


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Edvinac said:
I guess the time has come to invest in a DA, always wanted one, never pulled the trigger
Click to expand...

In the 18+ years I've been answering car detailing questions professionally, I've had hundreds of people join a forum in your position and at some point they have made the jump from working by hand to working by machine and NOT ONE PERSON has ever regretted it.

If fact - the MOST COMMON comment we all read after the transition goes something like this,


I should have done this years ago...


A great tool for anyone new to machine polishing is to keep it simple and get either a Porter Cable 7424XP or a Griot's G9



:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
A great tool for anyone new to machine polishing is to keep it simple and get either a Porter Cable 7424XP or a Griot's G9



:)
Click to expand...

I can vouch for the Porter Cable. I have had a Porter Cable 7424 (NON-XP) since 2002 and all I've had to do was replace the cord last year. Granted, I don't detail as many cars as some people, just my own and a few random customer's cars and mine has never given me a problem except for the wires breaking in the cord where it connects to the buffer. Definitely acceptable for a nearly 20 year old machine.
 
1st photo panel cleaned and applied spray wax. No more holograms, only tons of swirls from my shitty wax application

2nd photo door panel cleaned no wax, I see holograms(or are they not?) the light is not great, but they do look like swirls now, but at nighttime when lightposts hit the panel it definetly look like holograms.(might update with a nighttime photo)

P.S. if you puked after seeing the photos its ok, because I did aswell

5af11f6a4959c7624a7ce86553a81eed.jpg


598c3d3ab8942e34c9daf4746bd109c4.jpg



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^^LOL. Don’t worry about it! It’s not so bad, we’ve all seen way worse. Live and learn. You’re all good.
 
Forgot to mention I got a reply from Turtle Wax :)


55718637bd3a73cad407d762a9912c1a.jpg



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I'll agree with what Mike Phillips has said about the acquisition a DA Polisher. I'd say seriously consider getting yourself one. Best advice I can add, is there are often many great sales here and often free shipping with a low and even sometimes no minimum purchase. It's times like these that are good times to act upon.

If you haven't, sign up with an email address for notifications when such sales occur. And keep your eyes on the Autogeek's Store for sales. Many occur before the many Holidays commonly. Might be one coming up for the 4th of July.

There's nothing that says that you have to rush out and buy everything needed all at once with a large expenditure.

If you make the decision to then buy a decent DA Polisher, and when a nice sale arrives, you can begin to buy the needed Polishes, Polishing Pads, some Towels if you wish, etc.

If for say you decide to purchase something like the Porter Cable 7424XP, keep in mind it comes with a useless Backing Plate with a permanently bonded Pad. Then buy a 5" Backing Plate (I'll recommend the Griots 5" Ventilated Backing Plate for machines like the PC) and the Lake Country Thinpro Pads. The white ones would be a good starting point, I'd say buy the bundle of 6. In time, you can additionally add a 3-7/8" LC Yellow Urethane Backing Plate, and then use 4" Polishing Pads as well, or even reduce to 3" Pads for the harder to Polish areas. (I have such a set-up myself, very versatile, with these three Plate-Pad Combinations)

(I believe the Griots G9 comes with a 5" backing Plate installed, but it is not suggested I believe to change that Backing Plate to a smaller one, thus there's less versatility)

Wolfgang products are superb, world class. Their Total Swirl Remover is a product that I highly recommend, so will many others. All their House Brands are extremely good, Blackfire, and as well Pinnacle are also very good product lines. No mistake with a fine finishing polish from any of them.

With vehicles, there comes a time that continual hand polishing and waxing-sealing just isn't getting it. The paint begins to show signs of wash induced hazing, swirling and marring, and even oxidation that processes with manual hand methods just cannot properly address and rectify.

The paint looks old, weathered, lifeless, dull, a gross reduction in shine and reflectivity. It's a gradual process, but once an area is machine polished, the comparison and difference is very startling and very pleasing.

I'm old school, started with Rotary Polishers which are fine tools, but a tool that is much harder to use, and there's an higher inherit risk of paint damage, and burning with such a tool in inexperienced hands.

Whereas a Random Orbital DA such as the Porter Cable 7424XP, or the Griots G-9 are tools which are relatively easy, and much more paint friendly to use, even for a beginner.

As Mike Phillips has remarked, you will say you should've gotten such much sooner.

Just some ideas, and tips, hope you haven't minded them.
 
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