Understanding Orange Peel

[birdog]

I'm trying to understand Orange Peel on new factory paint. Is the textured look in the clear coat or in the base color? From what I've read on this forum, it's in the clearcoat. I talked to a body shop painter who said it was in the base color. I guess I'm asking could it be in either? Or both? If it's in the clearcoat, I would like to minimize the appearance by maximizing the clarity of the clearcoat, short of color sanding. If it's in the base color I'll live with it.

Feed back please

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

It's in the clear coat. You can sand or use car pro denim pads to give more clarity. If I were you, I'd live with it. Nowadays, factory clear is very thin. 10 years ago, it wasn't so bad.

 

[inDetail]

I would leave it alone. The more you correct the paint the less paint you have left on the car. IMO live with it until other major correction is need then you can tackle the orange peel. Depending on the color you can lessen the look of it with a quality glaze that will back fill and level off imperfections and lessen the appearance of it.

 

[Tinwhiskers]

This is an interesting post. All of my new Audi's (3 of them) have a lot of orange peel in some areas and, for those of us who know every inch of our cars, it bugs the hell out of me. Especially since I paid a big up-charge on a premium paint for my last one.

Anyways, why is it always in the clear coat? I believe you guys but it doesn't seem logical unless there's something really different about laying down the clear.

I've done just about everything in terms of detailing except wet sanding. I've polished a lot of metal in my life and know how easy it is to burn through plating. The idea of using sandpaper on paint makes me shudder even though others have done it.

I was thinking of trying it and even bought a Delfasco but to me that seem worthless. I still have no idea how thick the clear is on my cars and the paint reads anywhere from high 5 mils to mid 3 mils. Is there a standard you guys go by?

 

[Rayaz]

Yes you do see it on some upscale models from manufactures you wouldn't expect. I was pretty stoked when we picked up my wife's new X3. Very little orange peel! Excitement turned to sadness when I identified 3 fish eyes while prepping for opticoat.

Unless I were planning to show it, I'd live with the peel and save the clear.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Yes you do see it on some upscale models from manufactures you wouldn't expect. I was pretty stoked when we picked up my wife's new X3. Very little orange peel! Excitement turned to sadness when I identified 3 fish eyes while prepping for opticoat.

Fish eyes are very uncommon in today's factory paint. Was there any re-sprays done on the car?

 

[rmagnus]

I'm trying to understand Orange Peel on new factory paint. Is the textured look in the clear coat or in the base color? From what I've read on this forum, it's in the clearcoat. I talked to a body shop painter who said it was in the base color. I guess I'm asking could it be in either? Or both? If it's in the clearcoat, I would like to minimize the appearance by maximizing the clarity of the clearcoat, short of color sanding. If it's in the base color I'll live with it.

Feed back please

Technically traditional orange peel is in the clear coat. It can however be in the base coat usually caused by spraying the paint dry.

It's very hard to spray clear without getting orange peel so its easier to put on a couple extra coats and wet sand the orange peel out of the paint. That said a quality painter will set the gun up and use good techniques to spray as flat as possible.

If you compound the paint it will improve the clarity by leveling the clear coat. Similar to wet sanding but not as aggressive. Then if you have a bad area you can always do a spot wet sanding with pretty high grit sandpaper 2500-3000.

For daily drivers just live with it. Maybe compound, polish & wax.

Factory paint is very thin and IMO most have too much orange peel but understand the manufacturers are quantity oriented.

 

[Pureshine]

Technically traditional orange peel is in the clear coat. It can however be in the base coat usually caused by spraying the paint dry.

It's very hard to spray clear without getting orange peel so its easier to put on a couple extra coats and wet sand the orange peel out of the paint. That said a quality painter will set the gun up and use good techniques to spray as flat as possible.

If you compound the paint it will improve the clarity by leveling the clear coat. Similar to wet sanding but not as aggressive. Then if you have a bad area you can always do a spot wet sanding with pretty high grit sandpaper 2500-3000.

For daily drivers just live with it. Maybe compound, polish & wax.

Factory paint is very thin and IMO most have too much orange peel but understand the manufacturers are quantity oriented.

+1

 

[rmagnus]

This is an interesting post. All of my new Audi's (3 of them) have a lot of orange peel in some areas and, for those of us who know every inch of our cars, it bugs the hell out of me. Especially since I paid a big up-charge on a premium paint for my last one. I hea ya.

Anyways, why is it always in the clear coat? Not always but most of the time. I believe you guys but it doesn't seem logical unless there's something really different about laying down the clear.

I've done just about everything in terms of detailing except wet sanding. I've polished a lot of metal in my life and know how easy it is to burn through plating. The idea of using sandpaper on paint makes me shudder even though others have done it. Not that difficult but like anything takes practice.

I was thinking of trying it and even bought a Delfasco but to me that seem worthless. Not at all this is a great tool to have. I still have no idea how thick the clear is on my cars and the paint reads anywhere from high 5 mils to mid 3 mils. Is there a standard you guys go by? See below.

3-5 mils is pretty good for factory paint. Generally 4mils+ you can do some wet sanding. Under 3mills you need to be very careful. At 3 mils I'd stay with light compounding with foam pads only. Remember these are total measurements not just clear coat.

Measure a verticle door sil or trunk channel for a base measurement because the clear is thinner there. Then measure the panel you plan to work on and subtract your base measurement. The difference is approximately the clear you have to work with.

Too many variable to list that cause orange peel, reducer, humidity, temperature, air movement gun, air flow, paint flow, build up etc. Air flow is a big one some guns are just better than others getting less air bounce back when laying down the clear.

 

[Tinwhiskers]

3-5 mils is pretty good for factory paint. Generally 4mils+ you can do some wet sanding. Under 3mills you need to be very careful. At 3 mils I'd stay with light compounding with foam pads only. Remember these are total measurements not just clear coat.

Measure a verticle door sil or trunk channel for a base measurement because the clear is thinner there. Then measure the panel you plan to work on and subtract your base measurement. The difference is approximately the clear you have to work with.

Too many variable to list that cause orange peel, reducer, humidity, temperature, air movement gun, air flow, paint flow, build up etc. Air flow is a big one some guns are just better than others getting less air bounce back when laying down the clear.

Thanks for the info. I'll live with the orange peel since the paint is otherwise flawless. One quick question. I have a 1970 Corvette that had a re-paint in 1990. Is it possible to measure the paint thickness on a fiberglass car?

 

[Rsurfer]

Thanks for the info. I'll live with the orange peel since the paint is otherwise flawless. One quick question. I have a 1970 Corvette that had a re-paint in 1990. Is it possible to measure the paint thickness on a fiberglass car?

You will need a paint gauge that will read a non ferrous substrate. I believe AG sells one.

 

[FUNX650]

If it's in the clearcoat, I would like to minimize the appearance by maximizing the clarity of the clearcoat, short of color sanding
If it's in the base color I'll live with it.

I can see if you’re showing off your vehicle at Pebble Beach where orange peel might be annoying.
But for DD's I personally believe it's best to learn to live with it...whether it's in the BC, CC, or both.

Most people won’t notice it...or won’t mind that it’s there.

So I ask: Is it really worth correcting?
-That will mean many steps constituting sanding, compounding, and polishing.

-Do you really want to remove that much of the factory-finish's CC?

-Having you, or someone else: Digging into your vehicles' CC with sandpaper...and therefore:
Diminishing its thickness? Diminishing its expected serviceable life-cycle?

-What if there's a boo-boo and the need for a re-spray arises?

Remember:
It's not the consumers' fault that OEM's are still searching for more money-savings by finding ways
to have even thinner paint film-layers (including CC) than they currently spray in their paint kitchens!!

Yes!...Orange peel is fixable.
The challenge is: At what cost.

Since you don't want to color-sand...Then IMO:
-It will be much easier (and more effective at CC-preservation) to polish the vehicle,
smoothing-out as much as you can without being too aggressive.

-Then follow that with a film-layer, or two...of an LSP.


NOTE:
Sorry for the rambling...



Bob

 

[RedXray]

Orange peel like posted earlier can be in both the base and clearcoat. What your eyes see is the clears texture. Basecoats, depending on the system used, reductions are around 100% to 150% with urethane reducers 3:2 (3 parts reducer to 2 parts color = 150%) this makes the spraying viscosity thin and less likely to leave orange peel.

Most clearcoats reduce with an activator at 100% 1:1 (1 part clear to 1 part activator). The mixed clear has a higher viscosity (thicker) and the activator itself for the clear is of a higher viscosity than the basecoats reducer. With these higher viscosity's the clear needs to be monitored more closely with fluid control, fan size, air pressure, speed and distance than with basecoats, to eliminate texture, sags or dry spray.

 

[Shaggy1970]

Anyone know how much paint you take off in a normal correction? Lets say with 105/205?

 

[rmagnus]

Thanks for the info. I'll live with the orange peel since the paint is otherwise flawless. One quick question. I have a 1970 Corvette that had a re-paint in 1990. Is it possible to measure the paint thickness on a fiberglass car?

Rsurfer already said it. These can be more expensive than meters reading ferrous martial (metal). Sometimes you can't measure the area and just have to go by feel and experience.