Using Extreme, Super, Heavy cut compounds for Headlighs?

Mantilgh

Mantilgh

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Has anyone tried something like Scholl's S0 Extreme Cut, or the other "extreme", "super", "heavy" cut compounds for headlight restorations like Art mentions in this thread?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../87618-unigrit-3-sanding-finishing-discs.html

Basically using a heavy cut compound to reduce the need for the expensive high grit sanding disks.

Scholl Concepts S0 Extreme Cut Matting Compound 1 kg

Scholl Concepts Asia

Not quite sure what grit it's supposed to remove. I believe their claim is "liquid sandpaper" equaling 1000 grit. Or at least that's what I'm getting from it.

There are others compounding products that claim to remove down to 600 grit. If these work well, I believe they would be a cheaper alternative to the expensive higher grit sanding disks.

Although some purist may say you are not truly leveling, or providing true optical clarity with this process. Not sure if I saw this statement here or on another site, but some claim you have to level by sanding up through say 3000 grit to get the best clarity.
 
the most aggressive compound I've ever used is Presta Gel Coat Compound. It does work pretty well, but I wouldn't say it replaces sanding.

When doing headlights you have to consider that there is a clear film that protects them so being too aggressive will make that film fail prematurely.

Sanding gives you more control of how much material you're removing, and depending on how severe the defect is, the sandpaper you'll start with (2000, 1500, 1200 or more aggressive).

Finishing with 3000 or 5000 grit makes removing the sanding marks an easy task compared to buffing out deeper marks like 1500 grit to put an example.


If the headlights are not that bad, you can polish them without using sandpaper as your first step, but if the defect is not successfully removed, then you could consider using sandpaper first.

Hope this helps. :xyxthumbs:
 
Yeh, most of the really aggressive compounds I saw were for gel coats and may not be used much by members here unless they work much on such.

I do not do this for living, but have been contemplating as a side job here and there for a little extra cash.

I was thinking about using it on the really oxidized ones that you know the coating is already gone. I have read that some have to get fairly aggressive with some of these. Some using 600, others down to 300 grit.

My thought was, either start with 600 or, 800 and then go to a heavy gel coat style compound, lighter compound, polish, then coating.

Or, maybe just start with the gel coat compound if the condition is bad, but not terrible.

Thus eliminating the need for the need for the expensive high grit sanding/polishing disks.

Not that I don't like these disks. I actually think they are amazing and love the uniform finish they produce, but the price is bit much IMO.

Just something I've been thinking about and wanted others input
 
It really depends on the headlight honestly and how oxidized they are. And some respond better to just compounding than others whereas some just have to be sanded first.
 
I would be more worried about the plastic burning from the compound and heat. You would need to get some serious rpm to get that grit working where as I see the guys in my car dealer using water with the small sanding discs with an air grinder.
 
For regular plastic headlights, sometimes I just skip damp sanding and use CarPro Ceriglass with cutting pad..it's agressive enough to remove damage clear coat on the headlights. Then I follow it with M205 to remove light scratches that Ceriglass leaves behind..
 
Good point about the heat, would probably be similar problem with machine dry sanding with the lower grits too?

I did try some damp sanding with my 3" backer in a air powered die grinder. An uncontrollable 10,000 rpm, it was basically full throttle or nothing. A bit to much for me. I think 3" may have been to large for for mine, all rpm, no torque.
 
Thanks of the info on CarPro Ceriglass. I will check it out.
 
Art also mentions in that thread that that process isn't recommended.

If the 3000 disc are too expensive, just do it by hand with 3k. The lighter grits always go faster/easier when you have done a heavier grit step previously IME.

Depending on the situation, you could get away with 1000-3000-compound. But, since every situation is different, unique steps/methods will apply to each one.

You might be spending more time compounding out the 1000 versus doing the 3000 then compounding. If if time is no concern, go for it. Just be careful of the heat generated.
 
Thank you for the input KMdef9

KMdef9 said:
The lighter grits always go faster/easier when you have done a heavier grit step previously IME.
Click to expand...

I do not have to much experience doing this but, this seems the opposite from what I have noticed. To me, it seems like it takes an exponentially longer time to remove the previous grit scratches.

Maybe it was more noticeable when the grits go up by 500 than it was with lower grits that go up by 200.

My method, in the end, was to sand 90deg to the last grit till I could no longer see them and then go over it again to be sure.

Did use a orbital palm sander(wood working version) with 330 to help remove some really bad crazing on one.

KMdef9 said:
You might be spending more time compounding out the 1000 versus doing the 3000 then compounding.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm am trying to avoid by using the "heavy" cut compound.
 
Did get board today and decided to play around with a junk light and some of those green kicten pot scrubbing pads.

Cut it to a 3" diameter and stuck it put on my backing plate. Wanted to see how aggressive they would be and how they would work as a cheap disposable disk.

I have pictures and feedback if anyone is interested. Some 50/50s comparing to 330, 500 grit.

Also thought about starting a thread and offering product/torture testing. Like, this is what brake fluid will do to this headlight if you:
Wipe it right off
Leave it for 30sec, 1min, 1 hr...

Or

What will TRIX actually do to this headlight if left on for the recommended paint dwell time and plus time like above. If you send me a sample to use of course.

Or APC or what ever.

What do you think?

I have two of the "lights" above the headlights from a 05 Colorado, and a headlight. Seems all or most if the outter factory coating is still there.
 
Mantilgh said:
Thank you for the input KMdef9



I do not have to much experience doing this but, this seems the opposite from what I have noticed. To me, it seems like it takes an exponentially longer time to remove the previous grit scratches.

Maybe it was more noticeable when the grits go up by 500 than it was with lower grits that go up by 200.

My method, in the end, was to sand 90deg to the last grit till I could no longer see them and then go over it again to be sure.

Did use a orbital palm sander(wood working version) with 330 to help remove some really bad crazing on one.



This is what I'm am trying to avoid by using the "heavy" cut compound.
Click to expand...

The first one seems to take longer because I am making sure I have removed all of the oxidation. From there it's leveling off with the next size grit. By hand it takes some time, but with a power tool it would be quick. Sand till you have a uniform haze, and then move onto the next. No point to keep going after that.


Mantilgh said:
Did get board today and decided to play around with a junk light and some of those green kicten pot scrubbing pads.

Cut it to a 3" diameter and stuck it put on my backing plate. Wanted to see how aggressive they would be and how they would work as a cheap disposable disk.

I have pictures and feedback if anyone is interested. Some 50/50s comparing to 330, 500 grit.

Also thought about starting a thread and offering product/torture testing. Like, this is what brake fluid will do to this headlight if you:
Wipe it right off
Leave it for 30sec, 1min, 1 hr...

Or

What will TRIX actually do to this headlight if left on for the recommended paint dwell time and plus time like above. If you send me a sample to use of course.

Or APC or what ever.

What do you think?

I have two of the "lights" above the headlights from a 05 Colorado, and a headlight. Seems all or most if the outter factory coating is still there.
Click to expand...

We all enjoy seeing people experiment, so take tons of pictures and make sure to have controls.

But, I'd be worried about using something as unlevel as that, but if it works, post up your results. 330 is really aggressive, I've never had to use that.

Brake fluid would probably start to dissolve/breakdown the plastic if left on for too long, which would also remove the oxidation as well. Once, again, if you have the time and want to do before/after and 50/50, I'd look it over.
 
Alright, I'll try to get them up at some point. Need figure out how to present picture in larger size. Posted a pic the other day just to try and was too big. Cropped just a little and looking like thumbnail.?
 
Mantilgh said:
Alright, I'll try to get them up at some point. Need figure out how to present picture in larger size. Posted a pic the other day just to try and was too big. Cropped just a little and looking like thumbnail.?
Click to expand...

Use the "Upload Photos" link above

You can adjust the size and detail of the photo by selecting from the different file sizes that appear above the link that is generated


Thanks for NOT posting thumbnails
 
Here's a test. I also just noticed the "preview post" button next to the "submit post" button. :doh:

Green kitchen pot scrubbing pad and 3M 3" drill style backing plate.



500 grit used wet on left, green pad on right.



Where I stopped playing.
330 grit wet/dry on the left, green scrub pad only on the right. Both where directional sanded.




Does this size work ok or is it too big? Ends up being resized on my phone but nothing ridiculous when you click to expand.
 
Little review:

Might play around some more and sand with 400 grit to compare it to and start a little tread on it.

The green pad worked well at removing the remaining coating and seemed to work much quicker than he 500 disk, even after I had used an 800 disk first.

Pictures above do show slightly more aggressive sanding marks than 500 though. Maybe more comparable to 400?

Doubt there was much leveling done by the green pad but this would be done when you follow up with gritted paper.

It did chew through the factory coating quickly.

Green pad did get warm/hot pretty quick when used dry.

No heat issue when used wet even when bearing down on it.

Could be used in a pinch if you had a bad headlight to do and didn't have any low grit paper, no place to get it at the time, and there was a grocery store near by.

Or kept on hand with your kit to use as a cheap version of 400 grit to start with as a factory headlight coating stripper if needed.
 
Little more messing around.

400 left, green pad right



Both below, 500 left, green pad right





After this the 500 grit and the green pad look the same. Did the right side again just to be sure.

Again, to me it seemed the green pad was better/quicker at removing the remaining coating. But did little to the headlight plastic. Working 500 and the pad side by side on the "raw" light, the pad produced almost no white residue while he 500 would.
 
Ordered some supplies to get me going again.

Looked into the CP Ceriglass that FFguy808 mentioned. Ended up ordering the small kit with the compound, pad ,and microfiber to try out. Will be trying to remove various grit sanding marks with this and trying it with out sanding at all.

Ordered a Meg's 3" backing plate ,soft interface, and a drill adaptor. Should keep everything low and close to the machine. Accidentally broke my 3M one, wasn't that fond of it anyway. I like that I can now work without the soft interface if I want unlike the 3M one I had.

Also ordered Optimum compound,polish, and a wool cutting pad.



Projects to test and work on;
The good, the bad, and the ugly

The Good:

01 Forester. These were both lightly polished not long ago. Passengers side was worse than drivers before.

Passenger side
image849.jpg


Drivers
image847.jpg


The Bad:

98(I think) Ranger
Both similar, most of the factory coating has failed, just a little left in the middle.

image850.jpg


image851.jpg


The Ugly:

90's Volvo Semi-truck, lights almost match it's paint

image852.jpg



Will definitely be trying the Ceriglass on the last one, probably the Ranger too. Will play with the green scrubber some more for fun. Would like to try a partial polish with Forester maybe to see how Opti-Lens looks if you remove some of the factory coating but not all of it.
 
Got a few things from AG. Was out of compound and broke my 3M backing by tripping over my machine cord and knocking it down. :(
image890.jpg

Have to go to the in laws today to help with some hardwood flooring. Their 4Runner lights are in bad shape and might work on if I have time. Not yellow, but cloudy and major cracking. Surprised they don't take on water.
 
Haven't opened the Ceriglass kit yet, just poked at it.

Wow, those polishing blocks it comes with are really firm. I like! Wish I had ordered their rylon pads to go with it. Had given myself a $50 max birthday limit so it didn't fit in with what I got.

Might try using it with a foam pad or foamed wool on headlights but am a little afraid of not being able to remove the Ceriglass polish out of pads.

Should I be concerned or will it rinse right out?

Would like to get my hands on and try all of the CarPro correction pads/disks like the rylon, the denim and felt, and the spot correction.

Has anyone had a chance to use or handle all of these?

Would like to know the thickness and firmness of them.
 
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