Using too much (wasting?) swirl remover product?

M

MilesTeg

New member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
59
Reaction score
0
A few years ago I did some DSSM correction on my '13 mustang. I used Wolfgang 3.0 series product and a PC 7424x and 6.5in lake country CCS (all from autogeek). I got decent results (though I'm sure someone more experienced could do better). However, I ended up buying over $100 of wolfgang (2 sets of the 8oz bundle of swirl removed & polish). I used the X pattern application from the wonderful tutorial videos produced here.

After 6 years the mustang needs another pass and I have a much larger vehicle (full size truck) that I would like to remove some DSSM from (sigh).

I am wondering what a reasonable amount of product is for a mustang. Did I waste a bunch using 16oz on that vehicle? I readily admit I tend to overuse all kinds of products (more is better, right? hah!).

If I am wasting product, any tips on making better use of Wolfgang? Perhaps other products that can get similar results but are cheaper to offset the waste?

Thanks!
 
If you solely used an entire 16oz bottle of Wolfgang Swirl Remover on the Mustang, then yes, I'd say you used way way too much!
Even 8oz would be a lot IMO.

That could be one reason also, why you didn't get the results you were after with the previous polishing session. One, the product perhaps didn't properly and fully work down, and two, loading up the Pads with that much product kills the effectiveness of the Pads, and the rotation of the machine.

I once basically did my entire 4dr Tahoe with an 8oz Bottle of TSR, and even repeated a step on the Hood because I didn't fully remove a few deeper sleeks that were present. I then did the Hood with WG Uber Compound, then came back to the TSR. So, I actually did the hood twice with TSR.

I'd say there was probably a good couple oz of the TSR left out of an 8oz bottle.

I'd say a pint of TSR should be able to do 3 Mustangs. Of course everybody's different on their use of product.
 
After you polish a section, doing the obligatory section passes, you should not see a thick wet coat left behind, you almost want to work the product till it's invisible.

When I first started with the use of a DA, I'd watch some of Mike's Vids, noting how he fully primed the Pads, and I copied such, but I honestly think I did overdue it a bit, was saturating the Pads pretty quickly, and it was messy.

I had to rely on too much Pad cleaning on the fly, and in essence was just wasting a lot of product onto a terrycloth towel. And I did note how the Pads worked less effectively, and was at first swapping through a lot of Pads unnecessarily.

I'd say a 1/4th of the way through the first use, I lessened the use of product, and seemed like all was working much better. I myself, and probably others too have a tendency to want instant results and run through a polish in record time, and then have a tendency to rush section passes. Had to keep telling myself "slow down, slow down!" To also keeps tabs on the pad condition itself, and yeah, a couple times I accidently lifted the Pad while still rotating, ugh, what a mess! LOL Spatter all over.

Yeah, the Wolfgang products are seemingly costly, but they are some fantastic products which I continue to always use and stock.
 
The Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover & Finishing Glaze are awesome products for paint correction. If you used more than 8oz. of product per vehicle than i would say you're using way too much product. Use less product and invest in more pads. I like the Lake Country ThinPro pads with a Porter Cable DA Polisher. ThinPro pads are great for standard DA Polishers.

Total Swirl Remover
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0, car polish, polishing compound

Finishing Glaze
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0, Wolfgang finishing polish, polising glaze, machine glaze

Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant delivers a deep, wet, liquid shimmer unlike anything you can imagine.

Lake Country ThinPro Pads
Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System
 
When I first started I also used Wolfgang TSR. Great product. I went through almost 8oz to do 1 car and I know I used too much. I think somewhere between 4oz and 6oz should be plenty to do a Mustang. If you use too much product that makes your pads saturated and that leads to heat which can cause the pad to fail. I stopped priming foam pads (which is where a lot of the product went as I was switching pads often and priming all of them).
 
If, for say you actually used 8oz of WG TSR, and 8oz of WG Finishing Glaze (Actually a very fine polish, not a Glaze) and you then did a 2-step with these two products, well, then that's not crazy excessive, but still a little bit too much IMO.

I'd probably be correct to say that when we all started with a DA, we all did the same thing, erring on the over-use of product a bit. The principle is the thought of perhaps not using enough product, the aggressiveness of a dry Pad will then mar the finish and even maybe burn the paint.

It takes practice, and the more you do it, the better you become.

Whenever I tried a new process, or a new product, I'd always try it all on my junker Kia I had at the time. I let that vehicle be my "test mule", and although I never really messed up with Polishes or the Machine, I did screw up a little bit on the hood, by doing some touch up paint, and coming behind with wet sanding. Yep, I went through the clear a little bit on the Hood in a couple spots.

Saw that wasn't working for me, because in essence I didn't really know what the heck I was doing, and stopped before further damage was done. LOL As Clint Eastwood once said, "A Man has got to know his Limitations", and I sure found out quickly that I was no master of doing such. (I then converted to the use of touch up paints such as Dr. Colorchip, much easier, and pretty hard to foul up.)

Was happy that it was done on a cheapo daily driver beater, than a good vehicle, or someone else's vehicle.
 
You may want to change to 5.5" thin pads
to help with PC.
 
MarkD51 - What’s your approach now for priming a pad?
 
oneheadlite said:
MarkD51 - What’s your approach now for priming a pad?
Click to expand...

It's a bit less than what I used to use when I first started. I'll spread a little bit on the pad perimeter but a little less than what Mike Phillips has demonstrated, and then a few small pea sized drops in a triangular pattern on the pad face.

As we seen Mike Phillips commonly do, and it's what I do, I'll kiss the pad on the section I'm about to polish in a few places, and will start out at a slower speed to distribute the polish on that section.

Again, this is what Mike has commonly taught and done. By using less product I'll sometimes feel the need by examination to compensate by reducing the area a bit in which I polish and do section passes.
 
MarkD51 said:
It's a bit less than what I used to use when I first started. I'll spread a little bit on the pad perimeter but a little less than what Mike Phillips has demonstrated, and then a few small pea sized drops in a triangular pattern on the pad face.

As we seen Mike Phillips commonly do, and it's what I do, I'll kiss the pad on the section I'm about to polish in a few places, and will start out at a slower speed to distribute the polish on that section.



Again, this is what Mike has commonly taught and done. By using less product I'll sometimes feel the need by examination to compensate by reducing the area a bit in which I polish and do section passes.
Click to expand...

To add, not saying Mike Phillip's method that he demonstrates of priming a Pad is wrong.

I initially was probably a bit too generous with product when I first began, and got back into the game. I'd guess it's a common mistake.

For sure, there's going to be a point in which a Pad should be swapped out with a fresh one. Foam Pads are like Sponges, and they absorb product. That and nasties from the Polishing process.
 
MarkD51 said:
To add, not saying Mike Phillip's method that he demonstrates of priming a Pad is wrong.
Click to expand...


I never prime pads. I use to but in the BIG PICTURE - when using foam pads it's really not an issue. I show how to prime a foam pad in my class and make a joke about it and then show them the Jason Rose/Mike Phillips method, which is basically put some product on the pad, smoosh the face of the pad around on the paint then turn the buffer on and start buffing.


The pad priming thing in my opinioin is really only important when using microfiber pads and I rarely use microfiber pads, acutally I never use them. Fibers are a form of abrasives. They cut the paint. This is why unless the paint is hard, microfiber pads remove defects and then put their own defects back into the paint.

If I need to cut hard to remove DEEP paint defects, or maybe the paint is simply HARD and I need to cut hard to remove shallow paint defects, then I use a foam cutting pad like the 6.5" Lake Country Force Hybrid pads on the BEAST and get in and get it over with.

If that still isn't remove the defects, then I stop and re-evaluate.



Is this a show car?

Is this a daily driver?

What is the customer's expectations?

What detailing package did I sell them?

​


In most cases, if an aggressive foam pad with an aggressive compound on the BEAST isn't removing the defects then unless it's a show car and the expectations are SUPER HIGH - then I don't need to be removing whatever this combo is not removing and thus I don't need a microfiber pad on any tool.


I do understand that some people don't use the BEAST and thus to make up for a weaker tool they must use a more aggressive pad, thus the need for microfiber pads. I get it. I guess my skill and knowledge level plus my tool preference means I simply don't need microfiber pads.

If I DID use microfiber pads I probably would prime the pads, that is rub the product all over the individual fibers when starting out with a fresh pad and then after that, clean and blow out the fibers and then simply re-apply more product or switch out pads.

Anyone that's attended any of my classes knows how I prime a pad and that's actually a LOT of people just this year and over all the years I've been teaching classes.


:)
 
MilesTeg said:
PC 7424x and 6.5in lake country CCS (all from autogeek).
Click to expand...


Not only are those pads too thick for any free spinning random orbital polisher, (well maybe not the new G9), they are too large of diameter for the Porter Cable.

It used to be the Porter Cable was the only game in town for a random orbital polisher. I can dig up articles I've written that explain the history of this tool and the evolution of where we're at now or if you're interested use Google and my name and a few key words and you can probably find them yourself.


But compared to the GG6 and now the G9, the Porter Cable is one of the weakest tools in this category, (category = short stroke free spinning random orbital polishers), and the ONLY way to maximize the power it does provide is to use THIN pads, be they foam or microfiber.

And here's the deal, THIN pads will absorb a LOT LESS product than THICK pads and this is where some of your product waste is going.

I think 8 ounces is perfectly fine for doing correction work and recently I shared I used 8 ounces of compound to remove the swirls and scratches out of a Maserati. The 8 ounce bottle was near empty when I was done.


Moving forward, get yourself some Griot's Garage 5.5" BOSS pads, they are thin and they have hole in the center which helps to dissipate the enemy of all pads and that's heat.


You also need to get a 5" backing plate to turn, churn and burn the 5.5" pads.


:)
 
Here's the old 2-door European job I used 8 ounces of compound on,


The GLASSY look - Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating - 2014 Maserati


All work performed using products from Pinnacle Black Label. The tool I used is the NEW CBEAST by FLEX.

Pads: I tested 3 different pads, the pads I went with were the B&S Uro-Tech 6" Dark Blue Heavy Polishing Foam Pad

NOTE THE NUMBER OF PADS I USED - MOST PEOPLE DON'T OWN and/or USE ENOUGH PADS for the COMPOUNDING OR CORRECTION STEP

Mazerati_012.JPG



Mazerati_003.JPG


Mazerati_004.JPG


Mazerati_005.JPG


Mazerati_0011.JPG





:)
 
More,


I found the link to my write-up by typing the below into Google,

Thin Foam Pads Mike Phillips


There's links to the pads in the write-up to make it easy for anyone to get some....



5.5" SUPER THIN FOAM PAD OPTIONS for your Dual Action Polisher



Super thin 5.5" foam buffing pads

watermark.php






:buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top