Washing car before coating?

[CleanIT]

Not the first time I’ve heard this. Does anyone do this? I often wonder if some coatings fail prematurely due to improper prep, especially through the removal of polishing oils. I've watched videos of guys just spraying and immediately wiping in a very sloppy manner to remove polishing oils when they're not allowing the prep solution to sit for a few seconds to breakdown the oils. So, in essence they're just spreading it around on the surface preventing a good bond.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I've always wondered about the actual effectivity of the prep wipe that is typically done for coating--it seems to me unless you are using a lot of towels, I would agree with you that you could just be moving the oil around and not removing it.

To your point about premature coating failure, I was just watching a video about the Dr. Beasley's NSP primers and another one about the DIY APP primer polish (Miranda Detailing) and the opinion there was that this (primer polish) was the way to go, and that he had noticed better coating longevity using the NSP primers.

I wonder what the protocol is in body shops when they do a Prep-All/Prep-Sol wipe down pre-paint, for how many towels to use, etc.

 

[Desertnate]

I never wash before applying a coating, but I do use a panel prep like Prep or Eraser. I also have never had an issue with a coating not living up to it's durability claims...to include Gyeon coatings.

When I use a panel prep I am very methodical to my approach. I'll spray it on, let it dwell for a bit, and then gently start wiping it off. I'll also make sure my lighting is good and pay attention to the removal of the oils. With most polishes, I can see at least a little oily residue and I can see when it's gone when using a prep-spray. I have had instances when I had to re-spray a section and do it again because I thought I could still see a little residue.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Well, that sounds very scientific and thorough, Nate, and I'm sure that's why you are successful with your coatings.

I guess we're all over the map here, as the OP noted, some people seem to be haphazard with the prep coatings, and if the dishwash liquid wash is an actual Gyeon recommendation, then I'd guess the Gyeon Prep would be removing the surfactants from the dish soap.

I remember Adam Pitale when he was washing his Audi wagon in the TRC "studio" saying he thought prep wipes were nonsense, because the coatings all have solvent carriers so you don't need any more than that. I'm not saying I agree with that, but there's a popular figure in the detailing world, who built his company up into something huge and then sold it, who is saying prep wipes are BS.

 

[opie2]

In my opinion washing after polishing and before applying a coating or any protection for that matter is a waste of time.

Why would i introduce water back into cracks and crevases before i go to apply my coating?

After polishing, the paint is in it most prestine and rawest form. Use a quality wax/grease remover, and how ever mf towels ya need and call it a day. Use common sense and apply the KISS method.

Personally i use a napatha based wax/grease remover, same stuffed used at my buddys bodyshop.

Also i am of the beilef that a primer polish does work. I notice a difference for the better how the coating applys , wpes off etc when i use a primer polish compared to when i dont. Does it infact help with longevity, well thats always subjective.

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[Setec Astronomy]

In my opinion washing after polishing and before applying a coating or any protection for that matter is a waste of time.
Why would i introduce water back into cracks and crevices before i go to apply my coating?

I have to agree with that.

Personally i use a naphtha based wax/grease remover, same stuffed used at my buddys bodyshop.

That seems eminently logical.

Also i am of the beilef that a primer polish does work. I notice a difference for the better how the coating applys , wpes off etc when i use a primer polish compared to when i don't. Does it infact help with longevity, well that's always subjective.

What primer polish are you using, the Labo?

 

[Flash Gordon]

Not the first time I’ve heard this. Does anyone do this? I often wonder if some coatings fail prematurely due to improper prep, especially through the removal of polishing oils. I've watched videos of guys just spraying and immediately wiping in a very sloppy manner to remove polishing oils when they're not allowing the prep solution to sit for a few seconds to breakdown the oils. So, in essence they're just spreading it around on the surface preventing a good bond.

View attachment 137845

This person probably stole his* idea from me
I've been doing it this way (and telling others to do the same) for years

At least someone is listening

 

[opie2]

I have to agree with that.



That seems eminently logical.


What primer polish are you using, the Labo?

No. Currently using gyeon primer. Might try labo fiero after i run out though.

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[DFB]

Not the first time I’ve heard this. Does anyone do this? I often wonder if some coatings fail prematurely due to improper prep, especially through the removal of polishing oils. I've watched videos of guys just spraying and immediately wiping in a very sloppy manner to remove polishing oils when they're not allowing the prep solution to sit for a few seconds to breakdown the oils. So, in essence they're just spreading it around on the surface preventing a good bond.

View attachment 137845

I've seen that Gyeon post before. I struggle to understand why Gyeon would suggest using dish soap when they have dedicated alkaline soaps in their lineup for this task. Also, dish soap leaves a film after use, which would need to be removed with a prep spray, in which case you would have been better to skip the wash and gone straight to the prep spray.

Also, when doing that final prep spray wipe down, you need to be very liberal with the product and allowing some dwell time to work effectively. I see a lot of people lightly mist then wipe immediately, which just isn't effective. I also come across many who think these prep sprays will totally remove wax's and sealants, which is just not the case.

 

[Big DaveBig Dave is verified member.]

Also, when doing that final prep spray wipe down, you need to be very liberal with the product and allowing some dwell time to work effectively. I see a lot of people lightly mist then wipe immediately, which just isn't effective. I also come across many who think these prep sprays will totally remove wax's and sealants, which is just not the case.

That would be me, guilty as charged. Although the stuff I'm applying has it's longevity measured in months rather than years, oh well. I'll try and do better guys, I promise.

The last time I polished I used a primer polish, Carpro Essence, before applying NV Lustre and Jet. I read somewhere, after I'd used it, that I should have wiped down before applying anything on top, but it doesn't say this on the bottle or website.

 

[CleanIT]

One thing that guy Ives got wrong is suggesting to use Dawn. Big no no. Waxmode even did a test showing how Dawn leaves something behind. So for him to suggest that is really dumb. But they do make degreasing tablets. Bilt Hamber also suggests washing with warm/hot water prior to a coating or wax. Makes sense. Primus 2.0 is an ideal product for this. Or Reset/Bathe or any shampoo that doesn't leave anything behind.

Like DFB said, you really need to saturate the panel with Prep, let it sit for a few seconds to breakdown the oils, then wipe off using multiple towels if need be.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

No. Currently using gyeon primer. Might try labo fiero after i run out though.

So you still do the naptha wipedown after using that? That was the part I didn't get about Essence and the Gyeon primer, that they still want you to wipe, or wait 24 hours or something if you don't want to wipe, while Dr. Beasley's and Fiero and the DIY APP they say you can go right to coating (I think Reggy may have said wait 20 minutes or something on the Fiero).

 

[Desertnate]

I remember Adam Pitale when he was washing his Audi wagon in the TRC "studio" saying he thought prep wipes were nonsense, because the coatings all have solvent carriers so you don't need any more than that. I'm not saying I agree with that, but there's a popular figure in the detailing world, who built his company up into something huge and then sold it, who is saying prep wipes are BS.

I can understand this idea, but there isn't that much solvent being put down as the carrier agent in the coating, and some polishes are really oily. I imagine the solvents would knock down some of the oils, but I wouldn't bet on it making the surface pristine enough for optimal coating performance.

One thing that guy Ives got wrong is suggesting to use Dawn. Big no no. Waxmode even did a test showing how Dawn leaves something behind. So for him to suggest that is really dumb.

That was my first thought too. Some of the newer Dawn variants are pretty strong and would knock down the oils, but I've always heard they leave something behind.

In my opinion washing after polishing and before applying a coating or any protection for that matter is a waste of time.

Why would i introduce water back into cracks and crevases before i go to apply my coating?

After polishing, the paint is in it most prestine and rawest form. Use a quality wax/grease remover, and how ever mf towels ya need and call it a day. Use common sense and apply the KISS method.

Agree on all fronts. The last thing I need is water dripping out of unreachable places and making messes. In addition to the stuff you mention, washing and drying a pristine newly polished surface just creates an opportunity to induce marring before you apply the coating.

 

[opie2]

Agree on all fronts. The last thing I need is water dripping out of unreachable places and making messes. In addition to the stuff you mention, washing and drying a pristine newly polished surface just creates an opportunity to induce marring before you apply the coating.

100 percent

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[Setec Astronomy]

I can understand this idea, but there isn't that much solvent being put down as the carrier agent in the coating, and some polishes are really oily. I imagine the solvents would knock down some of the oils, but I wouldn't bet on it making the surface pristine enough for optimal coating performance.

Yeah, it's kind of like saying you don't need to use Prep-Sol before painting your car, because the paint has solvent in it anyway (back in the days when paints were solvent-borne and not water-borne).

 

[opie2]

So you still do the naptha wipedown after using that? That was the part I didn't get about Essence and the Gyeon primer, that they still want you to wipe, or wait 24 hours or something if you don't want to wipe, while Dr. Beasley's and Fiero and the DIY APP they say you can go right to coating (I think Reggy may have said wait 20 minutes or something on the Fiero).

Yes i still do the wipedown because i dont have 24hrs to wait.

Thats great about feiro, not having to do wipedown will save time

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[Setec Astronomy]

Yes i still do the wipedown because i dont have 24hrs to wait.

The other stupid part about that is you likely need to wipe the car down anyway if it's been sitting for 24 hours.

 

[opie2]

The other stupid part about that is you likely need to wipe the car down anyway if it's been sitting for 24 hours.

Ehh maybe taking a dry towel over the horizontal surfaces depending on enviroment

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[Setec Astronomy]

Ehh maybe taking a dry towel over the horizontal surfaces depending on enviroment

To DesertNate's point above, that just seems like an unnecessary risk. I think Corey waffled a bit about Essence, that if you break it down really well you might not need to wipe or wait, I also think Miranda Detailing mused after using some of the "no-wait" ones if you really needed to wait on the others.

 

[CleanIT]

I think as long as you really saturate the surface with a good panel prep and let it sit for 30 seconds to a minute, then wipe with multiple towels, you should be good to go. Washing again does unfortunately bring water back into the picture so I can see that being a time-consuming issue.

Gyeon's Prep is a degreaser made of mostly alcohol and whatever else they add in it. BH's Cleansing Fluid is naptha based and probably even better.