Wasting material via the PM system?

tuscarora dave

tuscarora dave

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Maybe it's just me but, I tend to get a lot of PMs and emails of folks asking specific detailing related questions or just soliciting my thoughts via the PM system.

These emails or PMs usually start something like this,

"Hey Dave, I saw your such & such thread, and thought you might know something about this subject."

Now I don't mind engaging in these conversations or Q & A sessions at all, but I often think that these sometimes lengthy answers, (whether they be just my thoughts, beliefs or experience hammered out detail after detail over the years) go wasted via the PM system waste basket.

I view these questions and answers as just sitting there wasting away for no one else to learn from or add to as a basis of discussion on a "Discussion Forum".

I can't be the only one doing this, or the only one that feels this way about discussions or good detailing food for thought being thrown down the waste pipe with the click of the delete button when the PM inbox or folders get too full and need purged in order to receive more PMs.

Maintaining the anonymity of the questioner, I've decided to paste some of these Q & A sessions in this thread so that they don't just get deleted. These replies sometimes consume hours of my life and should be seen by us all if they are general detailing Q & A stuff.

I invite and encourage anyone else who feels this way to paste their stuff here in this thread too, of course following some common courtesy and not posting any personal stuff or profanity.

I want to be very clear that I'm not suggesting or promoting the use of this thread "instead of" the PM system, (so if you ask questions of specific members here in this thread, don't expect any answers immediately) but rather a place to post previously unread (by us all) writing that would otherwise be uselessly flushed.

Any and all comments or questions are welcomed from any members or lurkers.

I'm interested to see where this goes.
 
I would completely agree... too bad I have already deleted a lot of good conversation in order to free up the required PM Inbox Space over the years... I have created some threads based solely on my responses to PM's, but the majority of them simply get deleted when my inbox fills up again.

I'm sure there are many members who have shared valuable info via PM that simply gets overlooked and never shared with the majority of AGO members.
 
I agree. So much can be learned from other peoples threads. We forget that when we ask a question in the forums, dozens more may read them. For example, I found a thread where someone was asking questions about a car with the EXACT SAME paint as my new car (Ford Tuxedo Black). Awesome! Got pages and pages of information to read. If it was via PM, I'd have seen nothing!
 
I believe Mike is a believer of moving the question to the public forum since others may have the same question.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
 
Here goes the first of a few from me. Take note that I've removed any links to other sources out of respect for AGO.


Hi Dave,

I've read a couple of your posts and I guess you know a fair bit about pads which is why I decided to drop you a PM.

I'm looking to do some boat detailing, and the oxidation that I'm facing looks to be pretty tough. It usually takes more than 1 pass of Presta Supercut Compound with a Meguiar's wool to get finish without hazing, and I'm wondering if I'm doing it right.

Oxidation, especially heavy oxidation is very tough to remove as I'm sure you are aware. It can take a lot of compounding in a small work area to remove oxidation.

If you look at the MSDS for Presta SuperCut you'll see that it is an "aluminum oxide" abrasive with "aluminum silicate"- or "Kaolin" which is a filler. The kaolin is at or around 17% in this product so a lot of filling is occurring with it's use. (just a FYI) as you may encounter a return of bad swirls after the fillers wash away.

Presta SuperCut falls into the "smoke and mirrors" category as far as detailing products go because it gives you the "illusion" of a perfected finish by filling with Kaolin. I'd personally steer clear of it.

The important ingredient to look at is "aluminum oxide" as an abrasive.

Aluminum oxide is a form of oxidation, so essentially you're attempting to remove one oxide with another oxide and these oxides are probably quite similar in hardness so an aluminum oxide as a main "abrasive ingredient" may not be the best choice of product for heavy oxidation removal, again I'd personally steer clear of it.


Perhaps something like 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound would work better as an initial cutting compound as aluminum silicate or "Kaolin" is not a listed ingredient in it's MSDS. I've found 3M Super Duty to be the best for cutting heavy oxidation from severely neglected gel coat finishes.

3M Super Duty uses tripoli as it's main abrasive, and while tripoli can be and is sometimes used as a filler, in the application we're discussing it's the rock form of tripoli or rottenstone that is a more efficient abrasive to remove heavy oxides. In addition to tripoli, 3M Super Duty has more efficient chemicals to aid in the removal of material while the paraffin provides longer work-ability.


I'm looking to review my choice of pads and here's where I need your opinions.

What would you consider to be the;

1) Most aggressive wool pad in the market.

100% twisted wool, any manufacturer.
something like this...

"link removed out of respect for AGO"

2) The best wool pad that cuts well and finishes brilliantly.

this one

"link removed out of respect for AGO"

3M SuperBuff 2+2 doublesided natural/synthetic 8"

but it must be used with this adapter (or similar adapter)


Optimum Double-Sided Rotary Adapter, double sided pad adapter, optimum center adapter


3) A good cutting foam pad (how does it compare to the wool's cutting power?)

Something with a very low PPI (pours per inch) rating. This pad is the most aggressive foam pad I've used.

"link removed out of respect for AGO"

"Pro CarBeauty 6" yellow foam pad"

The low PPI rating (though not mentioned) just means larger open cells in the foam which makes this particular foam pad a heavy cutter and the large open cell structure allows the oxidation that's being abraded/cut off of your boat a place to go (into the cells) but this can be as much a hindrance as it is helpful, as the pads will eventually load up with abraded off oxidation and have to be changed out frequently.

These large open cell foam pads do not finish well and will leave more of a scoured look behind than a 100% twisted wool pad will. You get scouring with the foam cutting pad and swirl marks with the 100% twisted wool pad, your choice. The foam is not nearly as tough as the wool pads so you'll likely destroy many of these while tackling your boat project.

In addition to these setbacks, the large open cells (while allowing the abraded off oxidation a place to go) tend to release a lot of the product you're using through the open cell structure of the pad, so product slinging will be a major annoyance using these with a rotary polisher. I find these particular pads to work best with a Flex 3401 forced rotation polisher.

4) A good second step foam pad that finishes well.

Gel coat is some very hard stuff so to get the best in a refining cut combined with an LSP ready finish in terms of the foam pad's ability I'd say anywhere from a light cutting foam pad to a foam polishing pad would serve you well. Which one to use will be dependent on some actual testing with your product of choice.

If your secondary polishing will be with an AIO (all in one) type of product such as this...

Duragloss Marine RV Polish #501 cleans, polishes, and shines gelcoat fiberglass boat and RV finishes. Duragloss durable boat and RV polishes.

I'd recommend using a light cutting pad so you have the better cut of the pad and also the fine abrasive in the product working together to create your end results.

Now if you use a non AIO polish or compound... say Meguiar's M-105 for instance, I'd recommend the foam polishing pad as the abrasives will be doing most of the finishing and we don't need the cutting ability of the pad getting in the way of the final gloss. (no pad scouring)

Advanced thanks and hope to hear from you!

Hope that helps. TD
 
And a follow up PM

Hey Dave,

First off, I would like to convey my utmost appreciation that you have taken a large amount of time to put in a really well written and informative response - I did learn a couple of new things there.

You're welcome. I try to help where I can, and I like to try and teach what I've learned over the years, or share what I think, as it helps to keep me sharp and to learn new things myself.

Regarding the compounds, I'm always thought that Presta were not using fillers - which is what they claimed on some other products. I guess I will start looking at 3M Super Duty compound in this case.

Now comes my second batch of technical questions relating to the detailing technique.

What I'm unclear about is the difference between Reflectiveness, Gloss and Depth.

Well...I like to keep things simple despite my tendency to think technically.

Reflectiveness or reflectivity, gloss and depth all come from having a smooth, flat, optically clear surface on what you'll be judging these three attributes on. (the boat)

Refining the surface as much as possible to achieve the flattest and most polished finish is the key to getting these three things out of your finish. However...

Depth will be dependent on the thickness of the clear layer of gelcoat that's over the base color and the "optical clarity" of it (some gelcoats are clear and some are tinted green or other colors.), so the thicker the clear layer is, the more depth you'll have, assuming you have a clear gelcoat and have created the flattest most polished outermost surface.

Gloss and clarity of reflection will only be dependent on whether the outermost surface is smooth or not.

In other words, if you have a really oxidized outermost surface, and you forgo sanding it and just compound it instead, you'll be underachieving in terms of reflectivity though you'll likely have lots of gloss.

While I guess it'd be somewhat of a paradox, you can have a smoothly polished, lumpy surface that will cast or refract light and reflection off in a million different directions, allowing you to see no general reflection at all.

Now... If you could bring your eye in close enough to "one" of the finely polished lumps, you'd probably see a reflection of yourself and the things around you in that one finely polished lump of paint. Walk back again and look at the total aggregate of lumps in the paint and all you see is gloss and no single definite reflection, despite the fact that millions of tiny reflections do exist.

Think about Escher's "Self-Portrait in Spherical Mirror" take a second now and google it. It has both gloss and reflectivity.

Now imagine if you will, 10,000 of those spherical mirrors rowed up side by side and stacked in 50 or so rows high to form a wall of spherical mirrors. (are you there?)

OK...now walk back 50 feet and look at the wall made of 10,000 spherical mirrors and tell me something about the reflection you see...

You'll most likely envision 10,000 chrome balls stacked and rowed in the shape of a wall and really see no single reflection at all.

A fly sitting on a car, looking at the orange peeled but finely polished surface could see a reflection from any lump of orange peel he'd be sitting next to, but if he'd fly ten feet away, land on the fence and look at the car, he'd only see a glossy car but no single reflection. I'll stop there...

It really wouldn't take much of a shift in surface angle to throw off the refracted light into a certain direction. (away from your eye) If viewed through a microscope, a seemingly smooth surface could in reality be pretty rough and or lumpy.

Back to your boat...

Now assume you take the same surface that you just removed the oxidation from via rotary and wool pad, sand it smooth and flat using three or four progressively finer grits of sand paper.

Now break out the rotary with wool pad and remove the sanding marks with a compound.

Switch to a foam pad and medium grade polish and have at it for a few passes to further refine the gloss on the "sanded flat" surface.

Now... finally break out the DA and 85RD and do twenty section passes to ensure the ultra fine diminishing abrasives couldn't be broken down any further...thus creating an absolutely flat, supremely glossed surface.

Step back ten feet and enjoy a single reflection of yourself and everything behind you, regardless of depth.

If you're lucky, you'll have 1/8" of clear gelcoat over your glittered base coat to provide you with a depth to match no other boat because of the optically clear, ultra smooth, ultra polished surface you just created by doing all the above mentioned work.

The lack of any flake in the base coat would take away from the illusion of depth. A smooth non metallic color would likely provide no contrast in which to give the illusion of depth.

You'll never really see depth without a metallic base coat under an optically clear top coat of clear, just gloss and reflection because for depth to occur (at least in my scope of thought) there has to be something at the base that can be magnified by the clear above it to create some contrast or illusion of depth. Without a flat and finely polished surface, (optical clarity) this magnification cannot exist and there will be very little depth.

This would obviously be an obsessive labor of love, and most likely very few people would ever pay someone else for the time it would take to achieve, but it could in fact be achieved.


It seems to me that certain boats may have a really reflective coat, but may not exactly be glossy. Boats that are rather new tend to have that bit of gloss, and though they may lack reflectiveness especially when oxidised. Do you know what's the technical difference?

Answer should be in the above.

You see, typically upon buffing my gelcoat with a wool pad + super cut, I do get a nice, clean surface in one pass. At this juncture, the little "test" that I do to evaluate my results as compared with the rest of the other done up parts, is to shine an LED light straight into the gelcoat, and look at the reflectiveness straight on. After one pass, what I would typically see is a murky reflection of the LED light bulbs.

After 2 more passes with the same compound, the "Led test" yields a really clear and detailed reflection of the LED bulbs. Now what I don't understand is, what is causing this murkiness that I'm seeing? Oxidation?

Possibly oxidation still present, perhaps each time you do another pass, you're cutting off more of the lumps I mention in the above lengthy reply.

Is that actually Oxidation? Or is that merely a case of the surface being "not flat" enough?

I'd pretty much have to be there and see the surface first hand to answer definitively, but...

Here's something to ponder...and to test out.

To ponder:

Any surface with oxidation present, (even a little oxidation) will tend to absorb and hold a wax or polish, making it hard if not impossible to easily remove whatever it's absorbing and holding onto.

To test:

After doing your initial pass with rotary, wool and compound, (when the gelcoat still looks murky) wipe some wax on the murky surface and allow it to haze for 15 minutes or so.

Try wiping it off after it hazes. If it leaves a stain, or absorbs and holds onto the wax, there is probably still oxidation present.

If the wax wipes off easily (regardless of whether the surface is smooth and flat) the culprit is probably the fact that the surface is not so smooth and flat.

I should also add that I see not much of a material difference when looking at the it in the day - Either one pass or two pass yields a similar look from 2 or 3 metres away, and only by shining the LED light, will I see that the result isn't satisfactory enough.

Something clean and shiny can look great at 10 feet but still not be so reflective as a result of a not so flat and finely polished surface.

I guess my point is, is a 2nd or 3rd pass actually yielding material improvements for me in this case?

Are you using a finer pad and polish for each additional set of section passes? If not, switch to a foam pad and a polish for your second pass once you've established the fact that there is no oxidation present.

Doing the same thing over and over will not yield a different result.

I'm trying to understand the full dynamics of how reflectiveness or glossiness comes about to better understand the problem.

Once again, thanks in advanced for your attention.

Hope this sheds some light (and gloss) on things.:)
 
Another thing I'm thinking about in going back through some really old material that I've saved is that I've changed a bit over time, some areas a lot. What was really important to me back then in the way of product use or technique might not matter today or might not be used at all as time and technology changes me/us.

Kind of cool to go back in time and re-read some stuff from back then.
 
Hi Dave...

RE: Your PM's

:wow:

You've really gone to great lengths in providing not only very in-depth detailing information...
But donated (freely gave) your time in doing so as well. :props:

Have you ever considered discussing with the other PM-party/parties about publishing the PM's
either in whole, or in part...as an agreement to do so would permit?

I personally read your posts to garner as much information as I possibly can to assist me for "dealings with detailing"...
But that's not to ever discount your assistance for my "dealings" while I go about Life's Journey.

I personally believe your words of wisdom should be brought to the open:
To be shared with the audience that's been made available via AGO!


Thanks for all you do for our community.

:)

Bob
 
FUNX725 said:
Hi Dave...

RE: Your PM's

:wow:

You've really gone to great lengths in providing not only very in-depth detailing information...
But donated (freely gave) your time in doing so as well. :props:

Have you ever considered discussing with the other PM-party/parties about publishing the PM's
either in whole, or in part...as an agreement to do so would permit?

I personally read your posts to garner as much information as I possibly can to assist me for "dealings with detailing"...
But that's not to ever discount your assistance for my "dealings" while I go about Life's Journey.

I personally believe your words of wisdom should be brought to the open:
To be shared with the audience that's been made available via AGO!


Thanks for all you do for our community.

:)

Bob
Click to expand...
Thanks Bob.

I really wish I had 1/100th of the PMs I've deleted over the years that no one except me and the guy or gal PMing saw.

I think all the time about all sorts of stuff, so yes I've thought on many occasions about publishing a lot of the stuff I write, and may still do that one day.

Lately I've been good for more "one liners" than I ever have been and only sometimes feel inspired to write although I log on here every morning, so when it's in form of a PM I feel it's somewhat of a waste.

I truly do attempt to see what it is that I can pack into the stream of life, rather than what I can take from it. I assume if I'd take more from it i'd have a fatter bank account but, I guess money isn't everything. While money is very nice to have, success isn't always measured in dollar signs.

I'm glad that you appreciate the stuff that I write about here. Sometimes I feel like a hot air bag...lol... Just trying to keep my cyber presence alive I guess.

Good day friends!! Heading into the shop now at 3:30PM:doh:
 
Great idea

Hebrews 13:16 ESV
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Philippians 2:4 ESV
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Luke 6:38
"Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
 
Hey Dave,

Quick question about opticoat. How often do you get high spots when applying the product and are there any tricks to not having to polish the surface after?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

I very rarely get them because of the process I use when applying Opti-Coat, which is simply rubbing more than recommended in a north, south, east then west direction... this process leaves slight high (wet) spots on just about every stroke of the applicator, which I continue rubbing down as I go along with the application.

I also carry with me the syringe, applicator, MF towel and ladder if needed, so it's easy to lose track of which side is the wet side of the applicator so I draw an "X" on the dry side, and lightly wipe after my application with my MF towel as I go, using a visual+memory (concentrating more on memory) process to track where I've been and where I need to go yet as I work my way around the vehicle.

I'm pretty good at it but not perfect at it so of course I'll see the occasional high spot the following day. I use a white Cyclo 4" finishing pad (the softest densest finishing pad I've worked with) with Optimum hyper polish spray polish, and by hand lightly rub down the high spot until it's as glossy as the rest of the coating.

After the solvents have primarily gassed off over night, a missed spot is more of a dull looking smudge than an actual high spot and takes less than about 30 seconds of light rubbing to gloss up and make the area blend with the rest of the coating.

Hope this answers your question. TD

It did thank you. I'm going to make the jump into opti-coat this spring and start practicing over the winter.
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

It is a pretty straight forward proposition, much like applying Opti-Seal, UPGP or any other clear wipe on walk away sealants, but it begins curing in 20 or so minutes so you have to work fast and accurate.

Have you used any of these WOWA sealants?

Do you apply it until it melts into the surface?
Click to expand...

It is as thin as water so there is no melting going on there. You simply want to apply enough for it to penetrate into freshly corrected (smooth) paint. Very little is needed to cover the entire vehicle.

I can easily cover 2 average sized sedans with a 20 CC syringe of it.

So long as every square inch of the car gets wet with the product, then rubbed with the applicator until no longer wet, then lightly wiped with the microfiber to ensure any potential wet spots are smoothed in, you'll be good.

Do you apply it to say half of the hood, go back look at it and buff any excess (does it bond instantly well enough to be buffed right away)?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's pretty much the deal. It will flash (evaporate) pretty much instantly as it's being wiped on, however when you change directions with your applicator (at the end of each applicator stroke) there will be a wet spot where your applicator stopped and started into a new direction.

Use these wet spots to carry more product into a new section as you apply the product, rather than wasting product by simply wiper over these wet spots with your MF towel. Always complete one entire panel before stopping to inspect your work and wipe down any potential wet spots at the end.

If you're making the best use of your product, by pulling the wet spots off onto an un-coated section of the panel you're working on, you should have none to very few wet spots at the end of each panel you apply the product to however, you should always assume there will be some wet spots or streaks and just lightly wipe over the entire panel to smooth everything over. Just make this a mandatory practice with each panel you apply any coating to.

So you'll want to do the entire hood at one shot, not half of it. If you did half of the hood, checked your work, wiped down any wet spots, then started in on the other half.....where the new half meets the already curing half there will be potential for smudging in that area. You want every panel to be a seamless process.

If you really hustle through the application on one side of the hood or roof, then race to the other side of the car or truck and apply to the other side...say withing 10 minutes, then you'll be fine to inspect your application on the roof or hood and wipe over the entire hood or roof all at the same time, in fact this must be done on most all roofs and large panels where your arms won't reach all the way across the panel.

It is really important to adopt a religious practice of not leaning against a panel that's already had the coating applied to it. If you touch it in the first 30 minutes to 1 hour (depending on temp and humidity) you'll likely smudge it and be re-applying product to that entire panel, which is a waste of product but not the end of the world.

I've made this mistake and was able to reapply product to the entire panel within 1 hour after my initial application with no problem. You just can't reapply to half a panel and not get smudging. If you have smudging and wait til the next day to make the repair, you'll likely have to polish and surgically clean the panel again before making the reapplication.

Prep is key.

Do your paint correction, wash the car afterward, using a few ounces of degreaser type APC mixed in with your car wash concentrate and water, dry with a few sprays of 91% alcohol as a drying aid to remove any remaining traces of polymers or oils. You're ready to apply the coating.

I'd suggest staying away from CarPro Eraser or similar products as I've seen complications posted by other forum members over and over throughout the years Opti-Coat has been on the market.

It's not a bash on these companies or their products at all because I'm more likely to believe user error is the number one offender in a failed application.

Simply put...I can only recommend what "I know" to work.

If you touch the car with your bare hands before the application, the skin oils in your hand will interfere with a "Best Possible Results" application, so if you touch it, wipe it with alcohol to to remove it.

If you'd like to chat about it before or during your first few applications, feel free to call me on the phone as I'd be glad to help you through the learning curve.

Thanks those answers really boosted my confidence.
Click to expand...

Glad to do my part in being a member of this community. I'll be pasting this correspondence to be in my "wasted info via the PM system" thread so all can benefit from my efforts in answering your questions.

Have a nice day. TD
 
Dave, I'm kinda bummed to hear about presta, I about a gallon of the supercut, compound and polish.. This summer. Does it really have fillers when it stats it contains none? Main reason I bought these products was to get away from fillers..
 
Jomax said:
Dave, I'm kinda bummed to hear about presta, I about a gallon of the supercut, compound and polish.. This summer. Does it really have fillers when it stats it contains none? Main reason I bought these products was to get away from fillers..
Click to expand...

I'm no chemist or product specialist. I'm just going off of what's in the MSDS which lists aluminum Silicate as I think 17% ingredient. I looked up aluminum silicate on Wikipedia which may or may not be a reliable source of information to see that aluminum silicate is formed or derived from Kaolin, then put 2 and 2 together potentially making an A.S.S. out of U.M.E. by making such an assumption.

With all the talk of Kaolin Clay being used in compounds and polishes as fillers, combined with the detailing environment you're likely to find Presta or other Malco products in.. Body shops and production detailing shops, it seemed easy to make that assumption. I could be completely off base here but I really don't think I am.

Hopefully a chemist will happen upon this thread and straighten out any chemical misconceptions I may have on the subject.
 
Hey Dave, great thread! Thanks for all your time and expertise!
- Mike
 
Flatlander said:
Hey Dave, great thread! Thanks for all your time and expertise!
- Mike
Click to expand...
You're welcome, thank you.

On a site with so many members and so many new members. It would be a shame to waste all this good info to be deleted with the other short pm's.

After all this is a discussion forum and not a PM forum, though of course there's great uses for the PM system such as private rants.

I'm sure we all want to (from time to time) solicit information from certain people "and I'm all for it" but upon reading this thread, know if I write it in a PM and think it's at least food for thought for all forum members to chew on...I'll be pasting it here and suggest others to do so as well.
 
tuscarora dave said:
I'm no chemist or product specialist. I'm just going off of what's in the MSDS which lists aluminum Silicate as I think 17% ingredient. I looked up aluminum silicate on Wikipedia which may or may not be a reliable source of information to see that aluminum silicate is formed or derived from Kaolin, then put 2 and 2 together potentially making an A.S.S. out of U.M.E. by making such an assumption.

With all the talk of Kaolin Clay being used in compounds and polishes as fillers, combined with the detailing environment you're likely to find Presta or other Malco products in.. Body shops and production detailing shops, it seemed easy to make that assumption. I could be completely off base here but I really don't think I am.

Hopefully a chemist will happen upon this thread and straighten out any chemical misconceptions I may have on the subject.
Click to expand...
Hi Dave...

As you know I'm no Chemist...(but I play one on TV.)

A while back I posted some information/opinions that broaches this subject matter here in this thread:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...r-s-21-sealant-hides-swirls-3.html#post754751

You are more than welcome to read "all of my findings"<<<(LOL), by perusing the entire posting;
or perhaps the below excerpts will suffice.

FUNX725 said:
First…As to car-care products:
-Fillers seem to have a pejorative connotation attached to them (such as filling swirls)…
And that products containing them may be "bad", or not as "good" as others. Over the
years they have received a bad reputation from formerly being used to: “cheapen” products.

When I think of fillers as: filling…

I see images of things like:
-Plastic surgeons taking collagen and filling in wrinkles and such
-By adding 1lb of pork @ $1.50/lb...to 2lbs of ground round @ $2.75/lb allowed me to extend
the amount of patties for the grill, and save a few bucks in the process.
-Seeing my bulging, overflowing, Christmas stocking only to find it was not filled with toys,
but supplanted with underwear and school supplies for the upcoming semester.

Now are these fillers good or "bad"?

Next…What are fillers, and their purpose, in car-care products?
-Many, many types of fillers, with those fillers having scores upon scores...or more...of synonyms.

A few fillers are:
-calcium carbonate, diatomaceous earth (DE), clay, kaolinite, kaolin clay, calcined kaolin clay, mica and feldspar.

But the particular filler that I’m going to focus on
(to stay on this thread topic; and, for further reference to Meg’s 21) is:

-Clay…especially Kaolinite/Kaolin Clay...
Versus, specifically, Calcined Kaolin Clay (anhydrous)

Note: These "clays" come in a variety of grades, through different refining processes…
With Calcined Kaolin Clay being considered the most refined (best) grade.

What is Calcined Kaolin Clay?
- It is an anhydrous (water/moisture-free; dried) aluminium silicate produced
from the natural clay mineral Kaolinite.
-Calcined: heated to temperatures 650 C, and above.
-The chemical formula for pure clay (mineral name Kaolinite) is Al2O3 2SiO2 2H2O
- It is inert (neutral), and has a high silicon content.
-Has a porous structure

What are some of its purposes:
-Improves structural strength, good dispersion, chemical stability, corrosion resistance, gloss,
enhances luster, chemical engineered ceramics (such as in brakes), impact resistance, durability,
heat and weather resistance, opacity...as when one coat of paint hides wall-blemishes/other colors,
diffuses light transmission, adsorption, it can partially replace (supplant) things like: TiO2 (titanium white)---for whiteness...
and alumina… thereby improving product quality and reduce production costs...directly cutting monetary output
for costlier materials, (<<<my: Pork/Ground round analogy(?)), reinforcing, electrical insulator, tear resistance,
tensile strength, aging resistance, solubility enhancement, abrasion resistance, smoothness, insulating properties,
fire resistance, barrier properties, mildly abrasive formulations for metal cleaning compounds and car polishes,
modify rheology, stain resistance, carrier for active ingredients, "nano’s", chemical-interaction for polymer structures…
among many others.
Click to expand...

:)

Bob
 
Great info Bob. Thanks for posting it.

As a result of reading it, I'm compelled to open a ton of compound and polish MSDS PDFs to explore if it's more so used in higher quanities percent compared to the Presta compound mentioned earlier in this thread.

My intent is surely not to spread misinformation but more to spark some real discussion on this forum.

All commenting is relevent to discussion as such, and I'm so far liking how this thread is going.
 
Thanks for sharing! Everything helps especially in this type of hobby.
 
tuscarora dave said:
Great info Bob. Thanks for posting it.

As a result of reading it, I'm compelled to open a ton of compound and polish MSDS PDFs to explore if it's more so used in higher quanities percent compared to the Presta compound mentioned earlier in this thread.

My intent is surely not to spread misinformation but more to spark some real discussion on this forum.

All commenting is relevent to discussion as such, and I'm so far liking how this thread is going.
Click to expand...

Also please don't think I replied as I thought you posted misinformation, I was just hoping the MSDS sheet was wrong. :) you're doing great Dave, I have high respect for you!
 
Hi Dave, from your PM listing page, at the bottom there's a box titled "Selected messages" and one of the options is "download as text."

So before you delete messages to free up space, click the checkbox next to the desired messages, select "download as text," and save the file. Then delete the messages and you'll also have your own local copy of those deleted messages to file away somewhere.
 
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