Water spots: The coatings achilles heel

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fightnews

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Brutal, Do you have to put carnuba over a coating to totally stop water spotting or what? Even with hybrid waxes and spray coatings like c2v3 and reloaded I still seem to get awful water spotting. They are very small I doubt one would even notice unless you have black paint with no flake or anything.

Anyway what causes this and why doesn't it seem to happen with regular waxes? I would hate to see what a coating looks like after a year or water spots
 
I know this topic has been kicked around a number of times.

I'm aware of the general consensus that the countless products one could place over a coating will alter some of the properties that they say one pays for when they go to a coating. Most of us know the drill, hydrophobicity, sheeting, bead angle and such descriptions-qualities.

The major aspects of many coatings is longer durability, better protection.

My questions would be that if one gains less propensity of water spotting with topping with some wax, or sealant of choice as a sacrifice to the qualities I mention 2 sentences back, maybe it might be worth the trade-off?

My sole concerns would be "will a underlying coating have its durability and longevity compromised by the carrier solvents in a wax-sealant"?, thus damaging the coating?

Let's just hypothetically say I just used and properly applied CQuartz UK Coating, used Reload after as advised, but one month later I choose to switch to something different? Let's say Collinite #476, or 845, or WGDGPS 3.0, Menzerna Powerlock, Duragloss #111, or any other personal favorite brand-type of product?

Will those products remove or possibly hurt the underlying original coating would be my concern and question?
 
Idk i would also like to know that. I've been using a spray coating. After a cares for a week I like to top it with the Polish Angel famous wax which is a hybrid wax with good carnuba in it. I would like to know if the solvents in that damage the underlying c2v3 or whatever else one might have on there?
 
•Given the same conditions a Coating
was faced with—(those conditions that
caused the water-spotting):

-Wouldn’t most LSPs that are not super-
hydrophobic {i.e.: has a water contact
angle of <150°; and, a sliding angle of
>10°} also trend towards water-spotting?



Bob
 
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong here but it's not that a coated car will get spotted in a situation where an uncoated car won't. The situation is that when a coated car gets water spots, they are a BEAR to get off.

Case in point. I have a customer with a Porsche Cayenne and a lawn sprinkler system. His cars have been hit by his sprinklers in the past and he wipes off the spots with a quick detailer. After I coated his Cayenne, the first time it got hit with the sprinkler nothing he tried would get the spots off. He brought it to me and I had to buff them off... rather aggressively I might add.

Bill
 
FUNX650 said:
•Given the same conditions a Coating
was faced with—(those conditions that
caused the water-spotting):

-Wouldn’t most LSPs that are not super-
hydrophobic {i.e.: has a water contact
angle of <150°; and, a sliding angle of
>10°} also trend towards water-spotting?



Bob
Click to expand...

Yeah but the difference is the water spots on a waxed based lsp wash off when you wash the car. As long as you're washing it every couple weeks its not a problem. The water spots on a coating don't wash off. Even if you wash it once a week.
 
waelwell said:
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong here but it's not that a coated car will get spotted in a situation where an uncoated car won't. The situation is that when a coated car gets water spots, they are a BEAR to get off.

Case in point. I have a customer with a Porsche Cayenne and a lawn sprinkler system. His cars have been hit by his sprinklers in the past and he wipes off the spots with a quick detailer. After I coated his Cayenne, the first time it got hit with the sprinkler nothing he tried would get the spots off. He brought it to me and I had to buff them off... rather aggressively I might add.

Bill
Click to expand...

Exactly I just said the same thing without reading your post. Water spots on a wax job wipe off clean with a quick detailer. Water spots on a coating pretty much become part of the car.
 
fightnews said:
Exactly I just said the same thing without reading your post. Water spots on a wax job wipe off clean with a quick detailer. Water spots on a coating pretty much become part of the car.
Click to expand...

OK folks, I gotcha, and now understand more of what you're relating to.

My next question would probably be then, will a wax adhere to a coating for a decent amount of time, and thus lessen this issue that people seem to commonly experience?

I know, it probably then seems stupid, (redundant) and perhaps make little sense if one then reverts back to a need to a wax again every 2 months, cause then it's like "why did one even go with a coating in the first place"? LOL

Perhaps there would be an overall benefit still of better protection to the paint no matter what, especially those paint finishes that appear to be horribly soft and very easy to mar-swirl?
 
I dunno, I've been messing around with a wide variety of coatings in the last 2 years In a variety of maintenance situations from frequent to none and I've never run into any water spotting issues that weren't remedied with a foam/wash.

Perhaps a regional issue (in part)?
 
fightnews said:
The water spots on a coating don't wash off. Even if you wash it once a week.
Click to expand...


That is not entirely true. Go back to what exactly water spots are. Mineral deposits in the water that, if left will start a process of etching into clear/coat, coatings, and even wax. If through this scientific process of minerals etching into clear-coat, how would a wax stop this and a nano-glass ceramic coating wouldn't?

Here in AZ our water is mineral rich, especially copper. Yesterday we got a very dangerous (and deadly) dust storm. Typically during the monsoon season these dust storms preceded a down pour leaving your car looking like this:

NDMyMDBENDRBMDdEQzFGODRDQUY6YjgzYzVmMzU2NzBhNDI1MzBlMzVhNGNmNDRiNWZmOTE=


Then factor in the AZ sun. Temps at 105 - 119 and an amazingly strong sun.


When we first moved here, I had a coating on my DD. We had our first monsoon, and when I washed the vehicle a week later I was dismayed to see spots. I even started a thread on this forum about it. I thought I did something wrong, or that coatings were useless. Determined, I didn't give up. I re-did the vehicle, but instead of one coat of the coating, I used a new bottle and did multiple coats. After the next three or four weekly washes I followed up with Re-Load. Since then, we've had amazing rains and dust storms, and I'm happy to report in over one year we haven't had one spotting issue.

Did this solve my issue? Was multi-coatings and follow up maintenance with ReLoad the answer? Will this work for everyone? I don't know...

One client came to us with his Audi R8 V10 peppered with water spots that were very persistent after a wash. After a light polish, using SpotLess on the plastics, and using this method of layering coatings, he was just back for his 6 month maintenance. He drives it daily so I know it's rained with dust storms since his full detail and during the maintenance It had a few water spots in the back, and they came right out with the wash.

Based upon my own personal experience, I would be reluctant to stand by your statement above.
 
I've coated roughly 50 cars in the past year and none have come back with water spotting issues, BUT I've heard other installers having issues. Opti Coat recommends acid washing and/or mineral deposit remover and I believe that usually takes care of it without the need to re-coat (if no polishing was done).
 
Coatings are more prone to water spotting than clear coat alone. You might not get water spots on bare paint but coat it and the chances of water spotting increases.
 
Some manufacturers have realized that coatings have water spotting problems. Their remedy seems to be a slicker coating over the durable one, like CarPro Gliss.
 
I've had water spot issues on mine after applying Wolfgang Uber Ceramic. The fix I found was a 2 pronged approach of using CarPro Essence Plus and or Chemical Guys Heavy Duty Water Spot Remover.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Perhaps, everything has pros and cons. I’ve had good luck by layering multiple coats and washing quickly after sprinkler system or rain exposure.

I like the low maintenance factor but I do despise the easy marring.

The way I look at it is; They are a sacrificial barrier, and if I do have to Polish out scratches, I’d rather do it out of the coating than out of the paint.


Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Some manufacturers have realized that coatings have water spotting problems. Their remedy seems to be a slicker coating over the durable one, like CarPro Gliss.
Click to expand...

Considering how hyped up coatings are to begin with (not saying it’s unjustified, just an observation) it’s pretty ridiculous that this is their answer to the spotting problem.

Not only do you invest in cquartz UK, and reload, now you’ve got to invest into gliss.. what happens if gliss turns out to have a spotting problem? Are they going to unveil a 3rd layer? Protection for the protection protecting the protection?

Not trying to be argumentative or really aim this at you, I just think the entire coating market is absolutely ridiculous.

I’m sure they’re really great, but when the answer to a problem is “buy another layer!” It makes me very apprehensive to even want to try something more robust like cquartz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Finick said:
Considering how hyped up coatings are to begin with (not saying it’s unjustified, just an observation) it’s pretty ridiculous that this is their answer to the spotting problem.

Not only do you invest in cquartz UK, and reload, now you’ve got to invest into gliss.. what happens if gliss turns out to have a spotting problem? Are they going to unveil a 3rd layer? Protection for the protection protecting the protection?

Not trying to be argumentative or really aim this at you, I just think the entire coating market is absolutely ridiculous.

I’m sure they’re really great, but when the answer to a problem is “buy another layer!” It makes me very apprehensive to even want to try something more robust like cquartz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm in agreement with you.

I'm sure there will be responses to the contrary, but coatings seem like way too much trouble with the cost, application, and maintenance afterward. JMO
 
PaulMys said:
I'm in agreement with you.

I'm sure there will be responses to the contrary, but coatings seem like way too much trouble with the cost, application, and maintenance afterward. JMO
Click to expand...
The advantage to the coatings is easier cleaning and that still applies. Adding an additional coat on top of the ceramic is certainly something I did not expect when choosing to do so but it's a minor technicality in the grand scheme. You don't have to apply it all that often and even less often and less work than more wax. I've only had to remove water spots once in slightly over a year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
HazardousTR said:
The advantage to the coatings is easier cleaning and that still applies. Adding an additional coat on top of the ceramic is certainly something I did not expect when choosing to do so but it's a minor technicality in the grand scheme. You don't have to apply it all that often and even less often and less work than more wax. I've only had to remove water spots once in slightly over a year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with the advantages of coating a vehicle, and I know there are many fans of it.

I'm just not in the camp.
 
Finick said:
Considering how hyped up coatings are to begin with (not saying it’s unjustified, just an observation) it’s pretty ridiculous that this is their answer to the spotting problem.

Not only do you invest in cquartz UK, and reload, now you’ve got to invest into gliss.. what happens if gliss turns out to have a spotting problem? Are they going to unveil a 3rd layer? Protection for the protection protecting the protection?

Not trying to be argumentative or really aim this at you, I just think the entire coating market is absolutely ridiculous.

I’m sure they’re really great, but when the answer to a problem is “buy another layer!” It makes me very apprehensive to even want to try something more robust like cquartz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don't think I'd refer to the products themselves as ridiculous, but maybe some of the marketing hype is.

Right now at present, I'm of the belief that this coating technology is still a bit in its infancy. That in time products will become further improved as technology progresses.
 
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