Waterless Wash - Converting From Tradional and I Need to become an Expert

dipolley

dipolley

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Sorry guys but this is a long post.

OK guys so here is what is going on. My company is teaming up with another company who only does waterless washing. They cannot do a traditional wash because they are in a parking garage. with a volumn of 30 cars a day or so. I am a mobile detailer who does tradional washing. I have come on board with them to help bring their staff up to speed and train them on how to be something closer to a detailer instead of just someone who cleans a car.

Here is my problem. They are using CG Ecowash. Everyone seems to have thier own way of using it and they are not measuring it out exactly. But this is the tupical situation. They put a couple of "glugs" into a 2 gallon low-presure/low-flow sprayer (think home depot weed killer sprays) and hosing the entire vehicle down completely. Enough that the landlord is getting upset that there is water hitting the ground and pooling up. Then they go back over it with microfiber towels. Sometimes just one towel. Their techniques are sloppy at best and dangerous at worst. After a week I have already had to go to a client's home to fix the damage caused by the bad techniques.

The most frequent issue is that when they are using the product it is streaking like mad is is next to impossible to get it to stop. My bet is that the product is sitting too long. Thier solution: wax the car. Clients are paying minimal amounts and the product cost per unit is stagering when they are waterless washing, using detail spray to help with the streaking, and then a hand wax. It is taking too long as well.

After some quick research and playing with the product I found that if I do one panel at a time and immediatly buff it down with a dry towel the streaking is minimal. Then I just do a light detail spray wipe down. I do what I do with a tradional wash; wheels first, then top to bottom. Little issue on most cars, but black is still a problem.

Can anyone recomend a good product and technique keeping in mind we doing high volumns of cars? I am not impressed with the CG product and my other local supplier's waterless wash is not economical with the current wasteful use they are using.

Can anyone tell me what we are doing wrong that is causing this stuff to streak?

Can you direct me to any articles or threads to help educate me more on these
products and techniques?

Thanks in advance.
 
Made a booboo, using CG EcoSmart Concentrate. And after more research on AG, I think we are usining the wrong product for the job as it appears this contains wax. Am I right?
 
Hey David it's bill I have been using opt no rinse. I use the methods you use wheels first then top down one panel at a time I also use the two bucket technique at the same time to help isolate the old product and dirt. Hit me up on fb or txt me and I'll show you the opti onr this week.
 
I'm not familiar with cg Eco smart , but accordingly it is a waterless wash . maybe u should be using a rinseless wash instead, sounds like . onr - dp , bf , uww+ . all these rinseless washes can basically made into quick detailer , similar to a waterless wash also . IMO if doing a rinseless wash, u should do the wheels last . you don't want any of that brake dust ... in u wash bucket of rinse bucket yet even on your wash mitt/mf , and then continue on to doing your paint/panels with the same .
just my opinion
 
The streaking is probably from using to much product/improper dilution. that happens with Optimum no rinse. With a rinse less product like ONR you will get some water on the ground. It would not be enough to run down the driveway. If you do 30 cars a day you are going to have to keep reloading your buckets after every other car. I'm not sure rinse less is they way to go in a 30 car a day situation.
 
rustytruck said:
The streaking is probably from using to much product/improper dilution. that happens with Optimum no rinse. With a rinse less product like ONR you will get some water on the ground. It would not be enough to run down the driveway. If you do 30 cars a day you are going to have to keep reloading your buckets after every other car. I'm not sure rinse less is they way to go in a 30 car a day situation.
Click to expand...

I agree, In addition ONR is a great product for what you describe. Also try Gary Dean's Infinite Use Detail Juice. Just a little of both go a very long way, however the wrong dilution of any product will cause streaking.
 
maybe you can convince the landlords that these type of washes - rinse/water less are Eco friendly? way much less runoff than a traditional wash. then the customers could explain how this service u offer is convenient to them, to landlord ??? but I agree rinseless wash will have more puddling than a waterless . I myself live in a big apartment complex , we are unable to wash our cars here using their water , have no problem with using a rinseless.
 
I don't understand a couple of things about this. First, it seems you were hired as some sort of consultant who is an expert--you have stated their technique is terrible, and that you have used a better technique--why aren't you training these people to use your technique? It would appear that is what you were hired for. They are using too much product, not enough towels, should be doing one panel at a time (perhaps), so show them a better way to do it.

Second, unless that CG product is the second coming of waterless products, it's very expensive. Even if you buy the concentrate by the gallon at the CG site at "today's discounted price" it still costs $11.25 a gallon of mixed product. While right here at AG you can buy a gallon of UWW and that will yield RTU product at $2.73/gallon, which is the least streaky of any WW I have used. Of course, I only use it on fairly clean cars, I dunno what's gonna happen when you use it on the filth you are likely to encounter in your mobile washing (it's still not going to streak, I'd worry about its safety/effectiveness on a car that hasn't been washed in 3 years).
 
Sounds like they need to switch from waterless wash to rinseless wash. Spraying the entire vehicle before starting the cleaning process is a big mistake also. Once they get around the vehicle, a large percentage of the product is bound to have dried.

They need to consider either just doing one panel at a time, or doing rinseless wash. Why not do rinseless wash with a 2 bucket method? That would save on wash solution and help out with the "streaking" issues.

A few gallons of ONR with Wax could possibly fix a lot of their problems.
 
VP Mark said:
Sounds like they need to switch from waterless wash to rinseless wash.
Click to expand...

There are some locales where even the small amount of water on the ground from a rinseless is frowned upon, especially if you are going to do 30 cars in the same spot, and this sounds like one of them (read above "landlord upset about water pooling on the ground").

Now that I'm thinking about this, if the co. operates in the same parking garage every day, then maybe these are regular customers whose cars aren't that dirty, making a waterless a good choice. Maybe a bucket of ONR for the occasional more dirty car.
 
When I use rinseless washes the only real water on the ground is when I clean the tires and wheels, I use the left over product and make sure my pair of mf gloves are soaking in it as I wanna use it all up but there's never any standing puddles. Doing 30 cars would only need 30 oz's of the major players products so its waaay cheaper than this waterless washing, just don't like the concept of using/trying a waterless wash product.

Good luck to you!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. It has been very helpful. And Hi Bill!

Setec you make some very great points and I am right there with you on all of them. First let me say that the training I have been giving at this point has been reactionary and there are employees whom I have not even met yet. Our plan (good or bad) has been over the last few days to observe the bad habits and correct them as we see see them, identify what is going wrong either with technique or product, then correct it all with one fell swoop (organized company-wide training and product replacement). I want to get everyone trained with whatever product we decide to go with (and yes I think the CG stuff is overpriced for our purposes which is why I am thrilled by everyone's product recomendations).

And yes this is one of those locations where even a small amount of water on the ground is frowned upon. In fact the land lord would prefer that not one drop hits the ground, but understands that some liquid will hit the ground, but not pools of water. The company operates in 2 separate locations at the same facility where we do have some regular customers.

I am going to look into ONR and the UWW+concentrate as possible alternatives based on everyone's recommendations. I am still convinced that a technique based on traditional-wash process is the way to go, top down one panel at a time.
 
dipolley said:
Here is my problem. They are using CG Ecowash. Everyone seems to have thier own way of using it and they are not measuring it out exactly. But this is the tupical situation. They put a couple of "glugs" into a 2 gallon low-presure/low-flow sprayer (think home depot weed killer sprays) and hosing the entire vehicle down completely. Enough that the landlord is getting upset that there is water hitting the ground and pooling up. Then they go back over it with microfiber towels. Sometimes just one towel. Their techniques are sloppy at best and dangerous at worst. After a week I have already had to go to a client's home to fix the damage caused by the bad techniques.

Yeah, they're doing it wrong. Too much concentrate, too much being used at once, not enough towels. Probably going too fast when they wipe down - thus the sloppiness and subsequent damage.

The most frequent issue is that when they are using the product it is streaking like mad is is next to impossible to get it to stop. My bet is that the product is sitting too long. Thier solution: wax the car. Clients are paying minimal amounts and the product cost per unit is stagering when they are waterless washing, using detail spray to help with the streaking, and then a hand wax. It is taking too long as well.

Again, too much product.

After some quick research and playing with the product I found that if I do one panel at a time and immediatly buff it down with a dry towel the streaking is minimal. Then I just do a light detail spray wipe down. I do what I do with a tradional wash; wheels first, then top to bottom. Little issue on most cars, but black is still a problem.

This is a good technique. I think a good method for your team would be to have 2 guys do the exterior at a time. First, make sure to measure the quantity accurately in the pump sprayer. Then have the fist guy spray two panels. Make sure he has the nozzle spray set to mist - not deluge. It shouldn't have a lot dripping off the panel. The second guy will have a fresh MF folded properly and do a first pass on the first panel; using a single, gentle swipe motion - not rubbing or scrubbing. Turn the MF slightly to a clean section and do the line below the first swipe and so forth. The first guy who sprayed the panels can follow up with his own clean MF and buff to a shine. Do this top to bottom, then have them split up and do the wheels.

Can anyone recomend a good product and technique keeping in mind we doing high volumns of cars? I am not impressed with the CG product and my other local supplier's waterless wash is not economical with the current wasteful use they are using.

My favorite is Ulima Waterless Wash Plus.

Can you direct me to any articles or threads to help educate me more on these
products and techniques?

There's a lot out there. If you've got a pretty soiled car and can get away with a rinseless wash, check out Gary Dean's video on YouTube. You can also check out Mike's "How to's": http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23602-how-dirty-too-dirty-safely-use-rinseless-wash.html

Here's a good recent review of UWW+: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/61091-review-ultima-waterless-wash-plus-uww.html

A useful chart created by another forum member that could prove helpful in your endeavor: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-charts-graphs/56987-waterless-wash-chart-2.html (see post #17 on the 2nd page)

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

See my remarks above.
 
VP Mark said:
Sounds like they need to switch from waterless wash to rinseless wash. Spraying the entire vehicle before starting the cleaning process is a big mistake also. Once they get around the vehicle, a large percentage of the product is bound to have dried.

They need to consider either just doing one panel at a time, or doing rinseless wash. Why not do rinseless wash with a 2 bucket method? That would save on wash solution and help out with the "streaking" issues.

A few gallons of ONR with Wax could possibly fix a lot of their problems.
Click to expand...

You're right. Doing the whole car at once, the product WILL dry up especially on the lower/dirtier areas. You have to think of the initial spray as a pre-soak, then add more spray as you need it.
 
dipolley said:
I am going to look into ONR and the UWW+concentrate as possible alternatives based on everyone's recommendations. I am still convinced that a technique based on traditional-wash process is the way to go, top down one panel at a time.
Click to expand...

ONR and other rinseless products are certainly proven technology that can be used (with care) on really dirty cars. If you can minimize the "drippage" one option might be to ring the car with cheap terry towels to catch the drips and wring them out periodically. That or get a wash mat and capture any runoff, then you can just go rinseless and not worry about it.
 
You definitely need to do one area at a time. I do wheels first with separate cleaner and rinse with hose (not an option where you are working).

I would also suggest a water reclamation system to keep the landlord happy.

As for a little puddling, I'm sure that happens when it rains too.

Sent from my MB886 using AG Online
 
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