Wax and water spots question..

Contrast this with beading that will concentrate the mineral residue in a small area
For one, as explained above, beading does not concentrate anything. It's not a cause or an agent acting on it's own, that somehow collects and deposits all the minerals from the water in a small area; but the direct result of most of the water mass essentially rolling or sliding off the paint without leaving anything back. Obviously this process is not always perfect - and the small imperfections in it, the small water droplets that are left back are the beads. But the fact that most of the paint will be free of water to begin with, already reduced the amount of mineral residues that can be possibly left back on the paint, by magnitudes - and that's obviously a positive thing.

And the second thing is: the thing that's causing water to sheet *off* completely is the very same thing that's causing beading. It's hydrophobicity. What differentiates between whether the water will sheet off or create droplets - and the mixture between those - is:
1. the amount of water reaching the surface and the (spray) pattern of it,
2. the general smoothness of the surface,
3. the level of hydrophobicity of the surface (perfectly hydrophobic surfaces tend to break up water more into small drops, than do less hydrophobic ones, which allow them to spread more, and thus connect with each other)
4. possible random contaminant on the surface, and of course
5. the angle of the surface.

If these are optimal (not each of them individually, but all together, as a set), then water might sheet off the surface perfectly, without leaving many - if any - beads back. But if for ex. the water is rolling off too quickly, and because of that tends to break up into smaller individual streams, or the surface is too flat, or there are a lot of random contaminants on it, or the spray pattern doesn't allow a flush and continuous water surface to be created over the paint to begin with, then sheeting will not happen or it will be imperfect, and will leave droplets (beads) behind.

So, both beading and sheeting are the result of the exact same thing, and there's no such a thing as a product causing sheeting and another one beading. Of course different products might induce slightly different water behavior on the very same panel, because they might create a differently smooth surface, or they might exhibit different levels of hydrophobicity, which in turn might result in the water trying to leave the surface in different patterns and at different speed - and these latter two directly affect whether and how much beads there might be left back.

But the very same products that on one panel will cause the water (sprayed onto the surface in a specific amount and pattern) to sheet of almost perfectly, will create an insane amount of beads on a different panel, that has a different angle, while the other product, that left a lot of beads on the previous panel might leave back now a surface perfectly void of any water on this second panel, because the water will just fall right off it (not even sheet or bead, just fall right off). Same thing with different spray patterns: one might create a lot of drops (like if you're spraying water as a mist), while others might allow it to sheet off almost perfectly (for ex. when running out of the hose freely in a thick stream). It all depends on the circumstances.
 
Like Paul, I also do not get water spots from the rain.

I live in MD, and this summer has been particularly rainy, there’s been stretches this summer where for several days it’ll rain heavily followed by lots of sunshine. I can’t recall the last time I even noticed water spots from the rain alone.

This has been pretty universal across all waxes/sealants I’ve ever tried. The only thing I’ll get hard water spots from is my hose. I cleaned our glass door recently, and then it was hit with the hose, and it’s got some pretty nasty spots on it now.

It’s possible I don’t notice them, but as tenacious and obvious as some people make the spots from raining out to be - I doubt that’s the case.

In the list of waxes and sealants I’ve tried there’s FK1000P, some turtle wax stuff I found (no idea where it came from), megs ULW, megs 21, Pinnacle souveran, tons of spray waxes, and probably other stuff too.

If it’s really an issue for some people, I saw someone in another thread I think mention they’ll mist their car with distilled white vinegar as they dry to help deal with the issue. How effective that is I can’t say, but if it’s a viable option you could always try mixing some in with a QD spray to help remove any spotting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It depends on the "hardness" of the water - which is a term used to describe the level of mineral contents it has. In some areas it might be lower (=soft water), in others higher (=hard water). Generally open rural/agricultural areas and those that are near to factories tend to have harder rain water, because of the large amount of dust particles floating in the air, that in turn can be and will be captured and collected by rain (or what rain droplets form around initially).

Of course the hardness of the tap water might also vary depending on where you live. The only difference is, that you can do something about that, by installing a filter-based water softener. However, the ones that might be actually big enough for washing car, cost a fortune, both in initial purchase price, and also because of you regularly having to replace the filter material in it.

The level of water spotting you might get also depends on what kind of sealant/coating you have on the car, because some might make it very hard for the minerals to bond to it (most polymer sealants, glass coatings), which in turn will allow consecutive rain droplets to wash the residues left behind by previous rain drops off the surface; while others might even tend to actually collect all the contaminants and minerals they can get their "hands" on (like most natural waxes).
 
I live in a pretty rural area of MD, so I guess I’ll just consider myself lucky. My house is pretty much surrounded by farms of various types.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Hmm I think it does. And do you know how long it was since that car got washed? Not do I. And the nature of the rain that was before. You see clearly the strings of sheeting properties where the beads gathers up and rolls off. And on the roof where many lsp gets bigger beads cause of the lower angle of the roof. The beads still seems quite low and you see them haveing rolled of in parts on it.

Have you tried the PNS or BSD?
 
Hmm I think it does. And do you know how long it was since that car got washed? Not do I. And the nature of the rain that was before. You see clearly the strings of sheeting properties where the beads gathers up and rolls off. And on the roof where many lsp gets bigger beads cause of the lower angle of the roof. The beads still seems quite low and you see them haveing rolled of in parts on it.

Have you tried the PNS or BSD?
Both many times and gave it away.
 
the Caddy is just a daily driver. The Caddy just gets a periodic wash from time to time, that's it! No waxing, polishing or any other products applied.

What year and what kind of Cadillac is this that you’re neglecting? Lol.
 
To eldorado2k: It's an '07 DTS that I bought used. Its a nice car. I just don't have the time or energy to devote to perfecting and maintaining a second black car. Especially because it's my daily driver which means it will be driven in all types of weather. On the other hand, the Challenger SRT8 I bought brand new and is more of a "toy/hobby" car that I enjoy detailing and obsessing over. Even though I do not drive the Challenger daily. it still requires a considerable amount of work to maintain the quality of gloss and shine that it deserves. Especially since it is black!
I am frequently complimented on how well it "glows" with that familiar Carnuba quality.

To itsgn: I think your assessment on the "hardness" of the water contributing to the severity of water spots is right on target. I live in Las Vegas and the water here is notoriously "hard".

To the guys claiming they get "no water spotting at all", I am jealous. I suppose because my cars are black, and by black I mean just pure black. No pearl, no metal flake or metallic whatsoever. This type of black of course does indeed show every possible contamination, defect, scratch and flaw like no other! However, nothing....and I mean NOTHING in the world shines better or looks more stunning than a brilliantly glowing, highly polished black paint job! I am well aware of this, and I will continue to devote the necessary time and effort to maintain that look!

It would be nice though if an LSP could develop a characteristic in their product that better resists the mineral deposits left behind. Or at least ease their removal. It seems to me that these water spots eat right through the LSP with ease. This means that removing them by polishing is also removing the LSP all together. Really? After almost every rain? That's my frustration! Having to literally "polish' them out (obviously an abrasive process) so frequently is not good. Especially with how unbelievably thin the paint/clear coat is on these new Challengers.
 
This means that removing them by polishing is also removing the LSP all together. Really? After almost every rain? That's my frustration! Having to literally "polish' them out (obviously an abrasive process) so frequently is not good. Especially with how unbelievably thin the paint/clear coat is on these new Challengers.

Why not use a water spot remover rather than polishing. If you coat your paint, they are water spot removers that will not remove the coating thus saving your clear coat from polishing.
 
Why not use a water spot remover rather than polishing. If you coat your paint, they are water spot removers that will not remove the coating thus saving your clear coat from polishing.

Because, I assume if a water spot remover is strong enough and harsh enough to remove these spots that have already eaten through the LSP, it will also remove the LSP all together. I suppose it would be better than having to lightly polish them out. I am still kinda frustrated at the process and amount of work so frequently required.

It also goes back to my original question "does wax or other LSP's contribute to the appearance of water spots"? At the moment, I am convinced that they absolutely do contribute to their appearance. I think it's one of those things that LSP companies don't want to admit.
 
Because, I assume if a water spot remover is strong enough and harsh enough to remove these spots that have already eaten through the LSP, it will also remove the LSP all together. I suppose it would be better than having to lightly polish them out. I am still kinda frustrated at the process and amount of work so frequently required.

It also goes back to my original question "does wax or other LSP's contribute to the appearance of water spots"? At the moment, I am convinced that they absolutely do contribute to their appearance. I think it's one of those things that LSP companies don't want to admit.

At the moment it's a catch 22, Sonic.
 
I skimmed this thread - and water spots from rain are likely not from minerals left behind - because there are no rocks in the air - at least where I live. I’m assuming that’s how that works...

The spots are likely some other contamination that is in the rain - which could be dependent upon then environment or ecology around where you live. Could also be something coming up from the road and settling on flat panels that for whatever reason water spots when it rains.

My best advice: buy a white car. Cuz no specific LSP will fix this situation.
 
At the moment it's a catch 22, Sonic.

I agree Rsurfer. At the moment, there does not appear to be a simple solution. At least not for me. However, there in lies a unique opportunity for some LSP manufacturer with the research & development resources to bring to the market a product that truly minimizes this vexing problem! I'm not saying it is easy to do this, but in my view this issue is a huge gaping hole that some manufacturer would reap significant financial gain from if they develop a product that actually works! Perhaps they are working on one who knows right?
 
I agree Rsurfer. At the moment, there does not appear to be a simple solution. At least not for me. However, there in lies a unique opportunity for some LSP manufacturer with the research & development resources to bring to the market a product that truly minimizes this vexing problem! I'm not saying it is easy to do this, but in my view this issue is a huge gaping hole that some manufacturer would reap significant financial gain from if they develop a product that actually works! Perhaps they are working on one who knows right?

Ten years ago, I said that we can send a man to the moon, but we can't prevent water spots and we still can't.
 
Is there hope from Meguiars???

So, I just came across a product from Meguiars called Extreme Marine Water Spot Detailer. Anyone with first hand experience with this product? How well does it work?

A very interesting characteristic it boasts is that it PREVENTS future water spots...hmmm. Would love to know how true this claim is!!!!! Interesting indeed.

Furthermore, it the product description indicates that it leaves behind a nice shiny protective finish. This causes me to believe that it is in fact harsh enough to remove any existing LSP, but in return, it will leave its own shiny finish.
 
Swanic beat me to it, rainwater doesn’t contain minerals. Your waterspotting may be due to the combination of water beads and ambient dust/contaminates. The only way to avoid this is to avoid rain.

I find that some waxes do contribute to spotting due to their high carnauba content. Some waxes seem to be dust magnets, whereas sealants and coatings seem to attract less dust. Nothing scientific here, just my observations over the years.
 
Well for me, the specific "science" behind the actual source of these water spots is of little concern. The focal point for me is weather or not LSP's contribute to their appearance and methods of removing/preventing them.
 
Although I can also respect the temptation for someone to "correct" any misunderstandings regarding their origin.
 
Well for me, the specific "science" behind the actual source of these water spots is of little concern. The focal point for me is weather or not LSP's contribute to their appearance and methods of removing/preventing them.

Do a 50/50 on your hood with your preferred wax and something like FK1000p and see if there is a difference in spotting. At the very least it will be easier to remove the spots from the FK1000p side.
 
Back
Top