Wax is more than Protection, IMO.

Chrono

Chrono

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I totally understand that it's the prep that brings the pop, and my cars have always looked fantastic after a good polish. However, they always look even better after the wax. Always.

There's this camp that almost dismisses wax; saying it's for protection only. Why, then, would there be $100+ waxes if a bottle $18 Insulator Wax is all we really need? Why do I see differences between Pete's 53 and Gold Class when doing half-n-halfs if all the wax is doing is "adding protection"? Even comparably priced waxes, in the same market, are said to "look" different.

I have my theories, but would like to hear yours! :xyxthumbs:
 
Whatever floats your boat. Just to play devil's advocate, that extra "pop" you see right after application may be some volatile or short-lived components of the wax that won't be there for long...but may look great right after you put it on.

As a good guy on another forum used to say (hi Mosca!): The best way to get that "just-waxed" look is to ...have just waxed.
 
Everything plays its part to achieve the best finish possible, assuming that's your goal. The issue is most people NEVER have their cars polished or clayed, and MIGHT wax it once a year.

Applying wax to a neglected finish isn't really going to do a whole lot more than just washing. It might make it a little shinnier but it's not going to make the paint look better (unless it has fillers, etc), I hope that makes sense.

Now with the group of people who take it a step further with claying and/or polishing, it makes a dramatic difference, if you have the eye for it. The problem is some people don't know what to look for.

Think about it this way, I'm not a wine guy, but there are people who love wine and can tell tiny differences, that I can't or don't care to learn. The same goes for detailing, I instantly see swirls, oxidation, water spots, etc and there are some people who will never see it.

Now the benefits of wax are to help preserve your paint AND it enhances it's characteristics in certain ways depending on the product. Some products protect very well for a longer time and others don't, but it really depends on your needs (daily drivers, garage queen, etc).

It would be kind of silly to apply products to your car that only enhance it's finish if you drive it everyday and it's in the sun. Your paint would oxidize faster and you'd have to polish more often, thus decreasing the lifespan of the paint system. So the goal for most people on this forum is to protect the car and enhance it's look through proper washing, decontamination, polishing and LSP protection. But the goal of the general public is mostly to just have a clean "shiny" car from the occasional wash, and the rare wax.
 
To me, wax is more of a look than protection as the protection does not last as long as a sealant. If you complete a panel, you will not see major results, but when you wax an entire car and take it out to the sun you will for sure see some awesome results.

For example; last year i did half of my car with DoDo Juice Rainforest Rub, and the other half with DoDo Juice Orange Crush. The Orange Crush was deeper shine, and brought out the metallic more than the Rainforest Rub.
 
To each their own. Wax does nothing for me.

I can deliver a car without wax applied/IPA wiped after a paint correction and I'm sure majority of people would be able to tell the difference. (Not that I would)
 
Wax tends to hide any last remaining defects in the paint, if there is any. Here's a somewhat related video, kind of but not really....

I do know some waxes tend to darken the paint, I've seen 50/50's of different waxes and its definitely evident.

[video=youtube_share;Ph7-WgihN70"]makeitshine.ca - Polishing vs. Waxing - YouTube[/video]

EDIT:

Here's the video I was talking about with "darkening" effect:

[video=youtube_share;mJAVeonVmHU"]5 way PREMIUM Carnauba wax comparison - YouTube[/video]
 
There a great expensive waxes and great cheap waxes. The thing I think is nonsense, is when people just dismiss something they see as expensive as a "rip off"; or that it's exactly the same as their $20 LSP.

I've tried expensive LSPs I didn't like (Black Ice, Lava) and some expensive ones that are awesome (Souverän, Fuzion, NaviWax Ultimate, etc..).

What I hate, is when people say something is a "rip off" without trying it.
 
Chrono said:
There's this camp that almost dismisses wax; saying it's for protection only. Why, then, would there be $100+ waxes if a bottle $18 Insulator Wax is all we really need? Why do I see differences between Pete's 53 and Gold Class when doing half-n-halfs if all the wax is doing is "adding protection"? Even comparably priced waxes, in the same market, are said to "look" different.
Click to expand...

I equate waxes to cosmetics. There is a wide range of prices for those too; you can buy the cheap stuff at Walmart, or the expensive stuff at Macy's. The expensive cosmetics certainly come in prettier packaging...just like the fancy waxes. How much of it is marketing and packaging, and how much is a real performance difference? I don't know.

I'd like to see some double-blind testing of waxes, and also wax vs. no wax. I'm certain there is a placebo effect going on when judging known waxes, just as there is when judging audio equipment, most especially speaker cables. Remove the labels, and people have a much harder time telling A for B or C.
 
Yes wax is more than a protection its like a lotion or nutrients for your paint but with that said it attracts dust/dirt more than sealant and does not really last long....just my eight cents
 
Chrono I am 100% in your camp!! I think wax is more than protection. It gives a great wet look and depth. A sealant can't do that. I do, however, put a coat of sealant 1st (Menzerna, Wolfgang, Blackfire or Pinnacle, etc.) and then a coat of wax. I use Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax and the gloss or depth is incredible. DDJSN is $130 on AGO.

You could tell the difference easily with the waxed panel and the sealant panel. I have compared a side by side comparison of waxes and Genesis Coupe is correct you will be able to tell a difference with wax.

You car will also be protected from (caked on ) bird doo which I experienced. I did not know for 24 hrs (saw it next morning). I thought I was going to have to polish and fix the paint due to bird poo's acidity eating paint. No problem at all. Came off real easy no marks at all.

So with my long explanation wax IMO is MORE than protection. 100% in agreement with you!
 
Having watched the videos posted, I can see a difference, but I don't know if the difference means much, at least to me. Put another way, they all look "good" to me; I can't see spending 10 times more for a wax that to my perception only provides a marginal difference in look. What would matter to me would be the longevity of the product, and to a lesser degree, how easy it is to apply and buff.
 
Chrono said:
I totally understand that it's the prep that brings the pop, and my cars have always looked fantastic after a good polish. However, they always look even better after the wax. Always.

There's this camp that almost dismisses wax; saying it's for protection only. Why, then, would there be $100+ waxes if a bottle $18 Insulator Wax is all we really need? Why do I see differences between Pete's 53 and Gold Class when doing half-n-halfs if all the wax is doing is "adding protection"? Even comparably priced waxes, in the same market, are said to "look" different.

I have my theories, but would like to hear yours! :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
FUN proposition...But before presenting any
"more than protection" theories I may have...

I believe that:
The definition of protection (and protection from what) as it applies to the relationship between waxes and vehicles' paint systems (if any);
And:
What is the role of clear-coat paint in a modern-day BC/CC paint system?...

Are a couple of points of interest of mine that should also be addressed in this particular wax thread.

Instead of any theories being presented:
Any facts that you could share, regarding the above "protection" queries, would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Bob
 
Chrono said:
There's this camp that almost dismisses wax; saying it's for protection only. Why, then, would there be $100+ waxes if a bottle $18 Insulator Wax is all we really need? Why do I see differences between Pete's 53 and Gold Class when doing half-n-halfs if all the wax is doing is "adding protection"? Even comparably priced waxes, in the same market, are said to "look" different.
Click to expand...

Some just like to push this as if it was some conspiracy to fool people to entertain and stand out from the crowd. Some may truly believe it but many just believe it because someone told them rather than decide for themselves.
 
I think you have it a bit backwards. Wax provides the LEAST amount of protection compared to MOST good sealants and coatings. IMO wax offers more of a depth than a sealant does but doesnt have the candy look of some coatings. If you detail for a hobby, wax is fun and its cool to try all different ones and see what happens when water hits the surface. If you detail for a living, wax takes considerably more time to apply compared to a WOWA type spray sealant. The wax I use most these days is D156 as a drying aid. I will grab souveran if I am detailing a show car to add a little extra "wetness"
 
Waxes look different because they have different ingredients. The only question is whether you can see those differences with the naked human eye.
With some waxes, I can see a difference after only one coat, like PB Natty's Red or Souveran. Other waxes are more difficult to see a difference.
Swissvax Crystal Rock, for example was designed to change the appearance of the paint as little as possible, to allow the perfection of the polished paintwork to show through.
Other waxes are color charged, and do change the look of the car, especially noticeably after many coats.
Dodo Juice forum had a thread about that. They used Blue Velvet on a red panel and it became noticeably bluer compared to the uncoated side.

Because there are so many waxes with so many looks unique to their formula, the question is whether that wax is worth the price of that look to YOU, and whether YOU can see it or not.

Some people can see the difference while others can't. As someone alluded to earlier, it's like wine tasting. There are people with taste pallets so sensitive that they can reliably determine which wine is which when most people could not.

Sometimes it is not just your opinion that matters when it comes to how your wax looks, like at a car show. If a judge can see the difference, even though you can't, it is important what wax you use.

Maybe the judge has such a preference for a certain look that he always picks one car over another if a certain wax is used.
Maybe the judge has a preference for a certain wax on a certain type of car, but not on another type of car.
Maybe the judge of your paint isn't at a show, but is a prospective client or someone else that you would like to impress, that would justify the use of an expensive wax.

If all you are interested in is just protection, however, over a properly polished surface, there are waxes in the sub $20 range that will be more than nice looking enough to satisfy you.
 
I just use was for protection sake, not to much differance in my eye. Would love to hear mikes opinion on all this :)
 
spiralout462 said:
Which waxes have you used?
Click to expand...

for production I use a liquid wax from meguiars but have been using one from malco recently called banana wax or something? It's cheap and does a good job. But have also used dojo waxes. In no shape of form I have used any amount of waxes to form an opinion besides the ones I have used :)

For high end details I use sealants. Like reload from carpro and such. But I never used any expensive paste waxes, I just use sealants or coatings instead because IMO and proven that they hold up for a lot longer than most all waxes.

So I am more about protecting the paint than anything else. I would love to play around with high end waxes and such to see if I could tell the difference between different high end waxes. But I don't have the budget or time to have fun with that! That's what makes mikes and other reps jobs fun because they get to so that sort of stuff :xyxthumbs:
 
Great responses everyone, thanks! This has been very interesting. (To those who mentioned sealants - that's another completely separate topic!)

There is no doubt that an application of wax makes a measurable difference (in the thickness of my wallet). Besides money, I also spend time deliberating over what to use. Once I settle on a $89, pretty looking pot of wax from Europe with a groovy name that smells great, I have an emotional attachment before I even use it. I'm human and not above liking attractive and good smelling things. Good thing, it shines like crazy. Personally, I'm equally fond of a foul-smelling $18 bottle of Collinite. 845 is hard to beat. Or is it? I've made my own waxes that are a bear to use but shine like no tomorrow. Or do they? I love my (almost empty) bottle of Supernatural Spray Wax, but I have a stronger bond to my home-brewed spray wax. After all the time I spent on it, you better believe it shines like the dickens. Or does it? I have faith it does.

Wax is the Invisible Pink Unicorn of the detailing hobby. Note I said hobby. You pros go on with your sealants.

WaxFaith-L.png
 
swanicyouth said:
There a great expensive waxes and great cheap waxes. The thing I think is nonsense, is when people just dismiss something they see as expensive as a "rip off"; or that it's exactly the same as their $20 LSP.

I've tried expensive LSPs I didn't like (Black Ice, Lava) and some expensive ones that are awesome (Souverän, Fuzion, NaviWax Ultimate, etc..).

What I hate, is when people say something is a "rip off" without trying it.
Click to expand...

I've never tried any of the waxes you mention, but they sound like a rip-off




















:poke:
 
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