wax removal question

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keepitclean

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I'm going to apply a sealant (Power lock....I love it) and I want to be sure the old wax is removed. If I wash a car with Dawn and then clay is this enough to be sure the previous wax is removed?
 
You should be good, if you want, you can also try to do an IPA wipe down, but I don't thing you need to...
 
The best way is to use a product dedicated for cleaning the surface and prepping the paint for application of wax or paint sealant, that would be a light paint cleaner or polish as they will strip the surface clean and leave it clear and shiny, which is the kind of base you want for sealing.

A lot of high quality waxes and paint sealants are detergent-resistant, so the old ways of washing with dish soap don't guarantee you've removed everything.

I spoke with a few chemists about my IPA article recently and more than one told me a similar thing, that IPA won't be effective on all the different "protection ingredients" being used in waxes and paint sealants today.

IPA is effective at removing compound and polishing oils and other residues after compounding and polishing, but for waxes and sealants, Mineral Spirits or a combination of Mineral Spirits and IPA would be the most effective.

If the goal is to create beauty, I would recommend a paint cleaner or a light polish, either hand or machine applied.

Claying removes anything off the surface but there's a level of good technique required and some clays are very non-aggressive, these two factors could and can affect effectiveness.

Others will probably chime in with their opinions....


:)
 
Thanks Mike,

I have considered a paint cleaner and may add this on my Christmas list.

I also like the added benefits of a pre-cleaner.


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner

Mike Phillips said:
"Typically a paint cleaner is used before you apply your choice of wax or paint sealant. Specifically, a paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner would be used after the car is washed and dried, and if the paint needs to be clayed, then after claying the paint with detailing clay but before applying a coat of wax or a paint sealant."
Click to expand...


[Edit: I added the where the above passage was taken from. -Mike]


:xyxthumbs:
 
Last edited:
Wash the car with an APC mixture. Right before it dries on the paint, rinse :props:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
The best way is to use a product dedicated for cleaning the surface and prepping the paint for application of wax or paint sealant, that would be a light paint cleaner or polish as they will strip the surface clean and leave it clear and shiny, which is the kind of base you want for sealing.

If the goal is to create beauty, I would recommend a paint cleaner or a light polish, either hand or machine applied.

Claying removes anything off the surface but there's a level of good technique required and some clays are very non-aggressive, these two factors could and can affect effectiveness.

Others will probably chime in with their opinions....


:)
Click to expand...

Mike,

Could you recommend a couple of products dedicated to cleaning?

I think it would be of interest to hear some of the products you use and it would also serve to further educate the folks here.

Thanks in advance!
 
Chemical Guys Citrus wash followed by Griots Paint Prep to remove wax works for me.
 
I always use a pre-cleaner, although now I am switching to all-in-ones since they do pre-cleaning as well as you get a sealant thrown in for free. Pre-cleaners also (help) remove water spots, other contamination, and some have fine abrasives to (help) remove swirls. If the paint is good, I skip the clay.

I have used P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser for a long time. It is a cleaner only. I also have used Klasse ALL-IN-ONE Auto Polish a lot. I understand it uses a chemical-based cleaner. I just picked up a gallon of Meguiars Paint Reconditioning Cream D151 which is an all-in-one with SMAT abrasives. Of course, there are also products like Wolfgang Pre-Wax Polish Enhancer. Many products to choose from, and I'm sure others will have additional recommendations.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
The best way is to use a product dedicated for cleaning the surface and prepping the paint for application of wax or paint sealant, that would be a light paint cleaner or polish as they will strip the surface clean and leave it clear and shiny, which is the kind of base you want for sealing.

A lot of high quality waxes and paint sealants are detergent-resistant, so the old ways of washing with dish soap don't guarantee you've removed everything.

I spoke with a few chemists about my IPA article recently and more than one told me a similar thing, that IPA won't be effective on all the different "protection ingredients" being used in waxes and paint sealants today.

IPA is effective at removing compound and polishing oils and other residues after compounding and polishing, but for waxes and sealants, Mineral Spirits or a combination of Mineral Spirits and IPA would be the most effective.

If the goal is to create beauty, I would recommend a paint cleaner or a light polish, either hand or machine applied.

Claying removes anything off the surface but there's a level of good technique required and some clays are very non-aggressive, these two factors could and can affect effectiveness.

Others will probably chime in with their opinions....


:)
Click to expand...

I have been wondering about IPA as the proper cleaner to remove sealants and synthetic waxes. Thanks for the update.
 
Would Meguiars Mirror Glaze #205 Ultra Finishing Polish work as a pre cleaner???
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
A lot of high quality waxes and paint sealants are detergent-resistant, so the old ways of washing with dish soap don't guarantee you've removed everything.

I spoke with a few chemists about my IPA article recently and more than one told me a similar thing, that IPA won't be effective on all the different "protection ingredients" being used in waxes and paint sealants today.
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks for sharing. I think I missed the IPA article, gonna go find it. :xyxthumbs:

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
IPA is effective at removing compound and polishing oils and other residues after compounding and polishing, but for waxes and sealants, Mineral Spirits or a combination of Mineral Spirits and IPA would be the most effective.
Click to expand...

You do not mean combine IPA and Mineral Spirits... Rather, use one then the other, right?

Sounds like chemical warfare to me. :eek: :bolt:

Paint work cleanser is probably the way to go

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
The best way is to use a product dedicated for cleaning the surface and prepping the paint for application of wax or paint sealant, that would be a light paint cleaner or polish as they will strip the surface clean and leave it clear and shiny, which is the kind of base you want for sealing.
Click to expand...

Agreed :props:
 
If I am not polishing, I use a paint cleaner like P21S or Pinnacles. I find that claying and an IPA wipedown doesn't remove all of the wax or sealant. Just my 2 cents tho!
 
keepitclean said:
Would Meguiars Mirror Glaze #205 Ultra Finishing Polish work as a pre cleaner???
Click to expand...

Yes.

A4 1.8tqm said:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I think I missed the IPA article, gonna go find it. :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

I have not finished it yet and thus not posted it yet... lots of projects behind the scenes, product testing, etc. plus we shot a new video yesterday.



A4 1.8tqm said:
You do not mean combine IPA and Mineral Spirits...
Click to expand...

Correct, I do NOT mean to combine products.


A4 1.8tqm said:
Rather, use one then the other, right?
Click to expand...

If that's what a person wants to do then yes.

I think I have it in my notes as to which to use first but they are not in front of me, if memory serves me correctly, and what makes sense, is if you want to chemically strip your paint then you would use the MS first to remove any protection ingredients and once these are removed use the IPA to remove any thing left.

The recommendation I've been given for the ratio or concentration to use IPA is approximately 10%

I'll address this more in my article and I can't get to it today nor this week. I did an extreme makeover on Tuesday, shot a video and tested new products all day Wednesday, and I have another extreme makeover today.

If a person whats to get down to a "Fresh Base" in order to apply a new coat of wax or paint sealant, there are all kinds of "opinions" on how to do this including multiple ways of chemically stripping the paint.

The problem with chemically stripping the paint is that it doesn't tend to make paint more beautiful, in fact it will tend to dull the paint, the test for this would be done on clear coated black paint as black shows everything.

Of course application of any quality wax or paint sealant would act to restore clarity so it's not a huge deal but each person can choose what they think is best for them and their car.

I often use the terms working forwards and working backwards and in most cases the reason all of us are doing any work on car paint is to make the paint look beautiful and thus make the car look beautiful, thus the bigger picture is we're trying to create beauty.

If the goal is to create beauty then the sub-goal would be to work forward in the process, not backwards.

A quality paint cleaner will clean the surface of paint and prepare it for application of wax or paint sealant and if it is in fact a quality paint cleaner, after using it and wiping off the residue the paint will be clean but also clear and usually glossy. Applying a wax or paint sealant over these results will either maintain them or increase them depending upon the quality of the wax or paint sealant. This would be working forwards.

Stripping with some type of solvent wipe down or wash may effectively remove everything off the surface, or most everything, but it will tend to dull the surface, not maintain or maximize clarity. If the goal is to create beauty then this would be working backwards.

Because online enthusiasts tend to be DO or Detail Oriented, my words for AR because I don't like using the term AR, then I will often times put ideas into the "Extreme" for the point of driving home a point.

So if someone for example wanted to say that in their opinion wiping a clear coated black finish down with some type of solvent didn't "appear" to dull the paint down to their eyes... do it a thousand times and see how it looks. That would be taking an idea to the extreme to drive home a point and I'm pretty confident that if you taped off a section like this on clear coated black paint where you started out with the entire panel polished to perfection, and then you only wiped or stripped one side of the taped off section, that after 1000 times the solvent wiped section would become duller compared to the side left alone.

Wiping a panel 1 time is just one step towards wiping a panel down a 1000 times, the paint being the person that says they don't see the dulling effect after a single wipe down of any color of paint may not see a decrease in clarity and an increase in dullness but in the big picture, using a solvent to wipe down paint isn't going to make it look better and better it's going to make it look worse and worse, even if only by mall step.

I don't want to argue with anyone and I won't argue with anyone over a topic like this, everyone can do what they want, my point is that if you want to clean the surface of your car's paint down to a fresh base then using a product formulated and intended for such a purpose will leave the paint clear and gloss and is working forward in the process and chemically stripping the paint will tend to dull and diminish clarity and is working backwards.

If the goal is beauty, then clean the paint using a light polish or a paint cleaner. If the goal is not beauty or you believe the wax or paint sealant you choose to use will adhere best or bond to the paint best if its chemically striped clean, then do what you want as far as your choice for removing any previously applied wax or paint sealant.

As for bonding, I've never see a coating of wax or paint sealant slip off the car and pile up on the floor surrounding the car because it didn't bond. Something my friend Tom aka Mosca in the Miata.net world posted years ago on this topic.

Besides all of the above... which wax and paint sealant manufactures actually officially state that in order for their product to bond to paint the paint must first be chemically stripped?

If there is a list... I would bet it's a pretty short list...


:)
 
BobbyG said:
Mike,

Could you recommend a couple of products dedicated to cleaning?

I think it would be of interest to hear some of the products you use and it would also serve to further educate the folks here.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Great question...

I've written a couple articles on the topic of paint cleaners and in them I have listed paint cleaners available at Autogeek.net

Here's a few of those articles,

How to use a hand applied abrasive polish or paint cleaner by hand

The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner


Instead of listing my favorite or the one I would choose I would simply state that all the products we care at Autogeek.net are high quality products and used correctly they will all do the job they are intended to do.

Just as important as product is,

  • Technique
  • Application material
  • Application process (by hand or machine and if by machine which type of machine)
And here's the list.

Paint Cleaners at Autogeek.net
Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion
Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer
3M Scratch Remover
Dodo Juice Lime Prime Lite Cleaner Glaze
Dodo Juice Lime Prime Pre-Wax Cleanser Polish
Duragloss PreCleaner
1Z Einszett Paint Polish
Four Star Ultimate PreWax Cleanser
Griot's Garage Fine Hand Polish
Liquid Glass Pre-Cleaner
Meguiars SCRATCH X 2.0
Meguiars SwirlX Swirl Remover
Mothers California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner
Mothers California Gold Scratch Remover
P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser
Poorboy's World Professional Polish
SONAX Premium Class Paint Cleaner
SONAX Paint Cleaner


I have not created a list of "light polishes" but a light polish, either hand or machine applied will do the same thing a paint cleaner will do, that is it will clean the surface of the paint down to a a "Fresh Base"


I'm a "Machine Guy", I prefer to do as much of any project by machine as I can so I would always trend towards using products formulated and intended for application by machine.




:)
 
That's just what I was looking for, thanks Mike!! :props:
 
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