Waxes over sealants

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IBTROLLIN

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Hey guys. This is my first non-introduction post so fingers crossed it's not too noobish :)
I wanted to know if there were any potential problems in layering a carnauba over a sealant. I've read that a lot of people love the glow of a carnauba but also want the long lasting protection of a sealant, so they layer one over the other.
If this is such a good idea, why do companies like Zymol (personal feelings aside) always suggest to go straight from a paint cleaner like HD Cleanse (sorry if the name isn't 100% correct) to a wax, rather than a sealant in between?
I don't have any professional detailing experience or enough general experience in experimenting with various products to know the potential downfalls associated with this practice.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
I can only speak from my personal experience. Carnuba over sealant gives me the most durable and lasting shine and protection.
 
Idk if there is really much of a down side. The most important thing is to apply the most durable (usually sealant) first. You wax may not last quite as long because it won't bond quite as well to the sealant but I've had great results with Collinite 845 over Menzerna Power Lock
 
Sealants offer longer and better protection against many types of pollutants while carnaubas offer better protection against things acidic in nature, like bird bombs and acid rain.

As a general rule, sealants offer higher reflectivity and carnaubas offer a deeper warm glow. Carnauba's will often darken the look of your paint a couple shades.

Sealants don't generally bond well to anything but clean paint so applying them first is the only way that works. Sealants won't cross-link on a slippery wax surface. Wax, OTOH, forms a layer that will adhere well to the sealant.

So with a sealant and a carnauba you are afforded little better and longer lasting protection.

Now that said, it is important to apply the sealant and let it fully cure. Not just dry or haze to the point of wiping off the film, but it is important to wait 12-24 hours before applying the wax (or getting it wet for that matter). Sealants setup after a few minutes and you can wipe off the residue but they are not yet cured at this point. Many notice that their sealant looks good right after application but they look even more remarkable the next day. That's after they fully cure.

Also important is your choice of a Carnauba. It must not contain any cleaners so choose carefully. I like Meguiar's #16 but that is no longer available in the US. Meg's #26 is also a pure carnauba without cleaners.

When applying a carnauba over a sealant, do it by hand and gently. You don't need to rub it in other than to apply a thin coat. You don't want to rub away the sealant you just applied. The same holds true when removing the wax haze. Don't rub any more than is absolutely necessary to remove the haze.
 
From what I've read over the years on this forum & talking to professional detailers: carnauba over a sealant is fine. However, I don't know that there's real science behind some claims. Some guys swear by it (using carauba over sealant) but others say that, for 99% of the cars out there, the average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You'll read that some guys will put on 2 layers of sealant and 5 layers of wax. Then again, some pro's will tell you it's a waste of whle others insist they can tell the difference. I used to use sealant & wax but not any longer. My suggestion, wash, clay, polish, and put a sealant on the hood. Then on half the hood use a wax, call up a couple of friends and ask if they can tell the difference in look.
 
IBTROLLIN said:
Hey guys. This is my first non-introduction post so fingers crossed it's not too noobish :)
I wanted to know if there were any potential problems in layering a carnauba over a sealant. I've read that a lot of people love the glow of a carnauba but also want the long lasting protection of a sealant, so they layer one over the other.
If this is such a good idea, why do companies like Zymol (personal feelings aside) always suggest to go straight from a paint cleaner like HD Cleanse (sorry if the name isn't 100% correct) to a wax, rather than a sealant in between?
I don't have any professional detailing experience or enough general experience in experimenting with various products to know the potential downfalls associated with this practice.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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I think the answer to what you're asking specifically is that they advertise the simple path, "clean paint, protect paint". most companies don't advertise multiple steps, probably because the average consumer wants fast and simple, not necessarily every single possible step written on the bottle.

Common thinking is if you're going to do both sealant and wax, the sealant goes on first.

Also, if you're going to layer anything, only the bottom layer can be a "cleaner wax" (or cleaner synthetic wax / sealant), because the cleaning effect by definition will remove most, if not all, of the previous layer. So make sure your top coat is a pure wax or pure sealant, meaning no cleaners/abrasives...
 
Opti-Seal followed by Optimum Spray Wax; the products are made to compliment eachother. Each application takes about 12 minutes! The protection and shine is amazing! Its state of the art technology~

:dblthumb2:

Bacon
 
Thanks for the replies! I have heard Opti-Seal does a fantastic job, however, I'm also under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have to be careful with ensuring the coat is even otherwise any bumps or ridges in the coat will set that way, requiring light compounding to bring it back to flat.
I certainly understand the logic of sealant then wax, however, as some of you gentlemen have said, would most of us really be able to tell the difference? I'd say it's a photo thread waiting to happen!
 
IBTROLLIN said:
Thanks for the replies! I have heard Opti-Seal does a fantastic job, however, I'm also under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have to be careful with ensuring the coat is even otherwise any bumps or ridges in the coat will set that way, requiring light compounding to bring it back to flat.
I certainly understand the logic of sealant then wax, however, as some of you gentlemen have said, would most of us really be able to tell the difference? I'd say it's a photo thread waiting to happen!
Click to expand...

The product you're talking about is Opti-Coat, which is a paint coating; Opti-Seal is a traditional paint sealant, except that it's wipe-on, wipe-off.
 
I have been using Prima Hydroseal. It looks great after. I have it on my daily driver. I did not put any wax over the top. After a wash, I use a quick detailer and it looks great.
On other vehicles, I may put a coat of Pinnacle XMT360 wax. I just did this to a deep red metallic acura. The wax did add some depth to the shine. A little added protection over the sealer didn't hurt.
 
Generally this is how I apply them.

I like sealants............allot!

Sealants have come along way through the years and now rival most waxes on the market. Sealants seem to outperform waxes in durability but I think they still lack the depth most look for in a wax.

Adding a wax seems to give the finish additional depth and gloss. During the winter months here in New England I seal, wax, then as an interim step use Optimum Spray Car Wax as a booster after I wash. This appears to work well and I will continue to use this method. :props:
 
umi000 said:
The product you're talking about is Opti-Coat, which is a paint coating; Opti-Seal is a traditional paint sealant, except that it's wipe-on, wipe-off.
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Not true, OS is a wipe on walk away (WOWA) sealant. Another great combo is Blackfire's Fire and Ice.
 
Rsurfer said:
Not true, OS is a wipe on walk away (WOWA) sealant. Another great combo is Blackfire's Fire and Ice.
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You're right, I meant to say wipe-on, walk-away - no idea why I wrote WOWO instead :confused:
 
Does OptiSeal need 24 hours curing time before applying OCW?
 
IBTROLLIN said:
If this is such a good idea, why do companies like Zymol (personal feelings aside) always suggest to go straight from a paint cleaner like HD Cleanse (sorry if the name isn't 100% correct) to a wax, rather than a sealant in between?.
Click to expand...

I think its because they dont know if its going to bond well on top of a super slick sealant.

Ive read how very few waxes stick well to BFWD so you get a lot of streaks or it doesent really do anything. I tried to put a Meguiars carnuba on top of BFWD and it left an awful streaking mess. So I tried again with their specially formulated Midnight Sun wax and it went on great.

So you can either read up on what works well, or experiment on your own as to what works, if you do my guess is you may run into combinations of waxes and sealants that simply do not bond well and produce a poor result.

Often a manufacturer will offer a wax that works well with their sealant, for instance Fusion over Wolfgang Sealant. I would stick to combinations like that personally.
 
I think 1 good coat of wax or sealant is all anyone really needs. I've layered and never saw an actual difference in looks or durability. Until someone can prove with maybe a microscopic picture of layers of waxes bonded to paint I think it's all hype and marketing.
 
rspayumo said:
Does OptiSeal need 24 hours curing time before applying OCW?
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I was wondering the same thing. I just love OCW but don't want to mess up when I use Opti Seal. Maybe Chris can answer that when he has a minute.
 
I just did a wax over sealant on my car.

In preparation for winter, on my non-metallic black paint I put a layer of Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant. Much less shine than I was used to get with waxes, but still not bad.

One week after applying the sealant, I put a layer of Wolfgang Fuzion. Very noticeable improvement of shine. Weather was nice up here last weekend and had some Pinnacle Souveran left so I put a layer on top. Even better now. So the answer is yes it does work great to put wax on top of sealant... again my testing was on a black non metallic paint. If I had a white or silver car I would probably only stick with sealant. Good luck
 
DejaVu said:
I think 1 good coat of wax or sealant is all anyone really needs. I've layered and never saw an actual difference in looks or durability. Until someone can prove with maybe a microscopic picture of layers of waxes bonded to paint I think it's all hype and marketing.
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:iagree: Well said; that why there are few, if any, pictures or controlled studies to show any difference. Depth of shine, wetness, gloss ect ect; its nice to believe it but "impossible" to see it!

:dblthumb2:

Bacon
 
Rsurfer said:
Another great combo is Blackfire's Fire and Ice.
Click to expand...

Blackfire Wet Diamond followed by Blackfire Midnight Sun is a very good combo. It's looks great on dark paint nice warmth and depth. For light paint I like BFWD and Collinite #845. On light paint I go for shine rather than depth.
 
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