What does it mean when a foam pad does this?

Oats said:
I was following the pictures here for priming the pad and adding product. The three pea size drops are much larger than my drops (and larger than any peas I have eaten). I think my 10-12 drops totalled somewhere between the "pea" sized and dime sized drops in those pictures.
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In my experience with that orange LC pad, it works for maybe half a truck hood, and then you need to get a fresh pad. Very effective, a good default approach.

I like starting with 4 drops around the outside of the pad, and reloading with two healthy drops. Each time avoiding foam where a previous drop was placed. I used to polish the shower door, so I could see what happens to the polish as the pad starts to move, once turned on. It basically self primes, and takes a lot of the work out of the process for you. There have also been times when I started with eight smaller dots....

The motion of the pad draws product in towards the center anyways, so I try and keep this area free from liquid as it is also the first area to heat up. The actual hear from the motor is manifested through the spindle, and to the plate sometimes too.
 
I just posted this on another thread, may be helpful here too. From the angle of the picture I'm not certain, but looks like a Force Pad.


Force Pads are designed for forced rotation machines, particularly the Flex 3401 in mind. So being geared for that machine, there are design elements that are not ideal for lower power DA's and long stroke DA's. Two particular elements of the Force pad line are closed cell foam, and being thick. The Flex 3401 is a workhorse in that it is forced, yet a smaller orbit than long throw machine. Therefore, the closed cell reduces saturation, and puts the compound to work keeping it between the surface and the pad rather than in the pad. The thinker pad is due to the transmission of power on "the beast". Now, what does this mean when you put these pads on machine sit wasn't designed for?

1) On lower powered machines the thick pad doesn't rotate, the orbiting creates heat but it is not dispersed with the lack of rotation, couple that with closed cell foam, and he heat generation is higher. Think about standing in the sun with no breeze, then in the same with a breeze, cooler with a breeze. Same applies with rotation. You may not have a lot of heat on the surface, but internally in the pad it's getting hot.

2) Thicker pad is harder to get up to speed on lower power machines, more stall, less or no rotation, and then you're back to #1 above


3) On long throw machines, as we know the long throw is fast correction, but it also generates a lot of heat, see #1 above. Closed cell foams don't disperse heat well, so when you add pressure, the fibers are compressed and in many cases flat rubbing other fibers of other cells, with is increased friction, and heat, internally in the pad, and it breaks down, so a thermal and mechanical breakdown.



So if you're not getting the results you desire, it's common to crank up the machine, and add pressure. Both which in the scenarios above make the situation worse, when using a less than ideal pad for the machine. Then you can mix in the variables in amount of compound/polish.

We make great pads, but there are some, particularly the Force pad line that are really specific in their design intent. Because of the quality of our pads, people buy them on name alone, not knowing design elements or features can exist in a piece of foam. We truly do test and design pads for specific applications. Foam isn't just foam. Then there are videos on the internet stating "always use a thick pad", "always use a thin pad", and they have not even researched the first thing about the pad itself, or it's intended use. If you look at our new catalog, you will see a tool guide with little number icons, and for each product line page, it lists the tool type the pad is meant for based on the number icons. Can you slap a pad on any machine and use it, you certainly can, but you may be cutting yourself short on work to achieve it, the time to achieve, and maybe more importantly getting the proper durability out of the pad.

Here is a link to our catalog, that also is a guide to what pads for what machines:

http://lakecountrymfg.com/LC-FullCat-8-03-18.pdf


I hope this info is helpful!
 
Don't prime the pad on anything but forced rotation. Why I'm not sure, but I'm just telling you.
 
sudsmobile said:
Don't prime the pad on anything but forced rotation. Why I'm not sure, but I'm just telling you.
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You absolutely can prime a pad on a non-force rotation. However, it depends on the pad and the product. One of the product demos for the BOSS system is to use the rounded head of the BOSS cremes to prime the pad.

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

@ 8 minutes into this video:



With that said to the OP, I did not see your backing plate in the photo.... I should at least see the side of it. So begs the question, what size backing plate are you using?
Also, have you marked the backing plate so you know that your getting rotation?

Lastly I typically use one pad per panel, then it goes into a bucket of snappy clean, and I grab a fresh pad. One or many things are happening. You are using a smaller backing plate than what should be used with the pad, and or, you the pad is overloaded with product, and thirdly as others have pointed out, over use of the pad, thus heat build-up.

Use a proper sized backing plate, try not priming the pad as much, or at all... just 4 pea sized drops of product and spread it first on the panel before you engage the tool, and lastly change your pads more often. Typically

Cut = 6 pads
Polish = 4 pads
LSP = 1 or 2 pads

Hope this helps!
 
You say you absolutely can and then turn around and say try not priming the pad as or at all. Of course I know you CAN and I'm sure some products recommend it. Basically what everybody says "don't prime pads unless they're forced rotation." Sure, there's exceptions to every rule, but in general it's a good rule of thumb.
 
Lake Country 5" backing plate with Lake Country Flat 5.5" pads. The backing plate is marked so I can see rotation.

When I rinsed the first pad out the dip in the foam was still present and could be felt on the back as well. The second pad once rinsed out looks and feels normal. As soon as I saw it start on the 2nd pad I quit, so at least I didn't damage both of them.
 
i use a pad brush to brush off the pad after each panel...the pad brush is really just a hard nylon brush..you can buy a nylon brush anywhere
..can probably use a tooth brush if thats whats in the house.

i see a shower of product/paint dust come off the pad...

just a gentle brushing across the face of the pad..no pressure into the pad
 
sudsmobile said:
You say you absolutely can and then turn around and say try not priming the pad as or at all. Of course I know you CAN and I'm sure some products recommend it. Basically what everybody says "don't prime pads unless they're forced rotation." Sure, there's exceptions to every rule, but in general it's a good rule of thumb.
Click to expand...

You said:
Don't prime the pad on anything but forced rotation. Why I'm not sure, but I'm just telling you.
Click to expand...

I'm questioning the validity of this statement. To which my reply was:

You absolutely can prime a pad on a non-force rotation. However, it depends on the pad and the product.
Click to expand...
--> I have sited examples in my post above.

Your follow up:
Of course I know you CAN and I'm sure some products recommend it.
Click to expand...
---> Contradicts your first post.

I was in the act of giving advice to the OP on his situation, and as a ways and means to which things he/she could try. In my posts I try and make an attempt to be helpful. Whilst visiting Autogeek during the IDA CD-SV training, someone at Autogeek personally thanked me for for my posts and the advice I give. I try to do so, whilst providing research, analysis and knowledge.

If you read my full quote and the context to which it was written in, you would see an attempt to provide a solution to the problem by offering different techniques.

I then said:
try not priming the pad as much, or at all... just 4 pea sized drops of product and spread it first on the panel before you engage the tool
Click to expand...
With emphasis on try not priming the pad as much, or at all, in other words, reduce the amount of product being used on the pad...

I typically do not get involved in banter, and wish not to do so, as I know my customers read this forum, as such my replies are typically professional.
 
Oats said:
Lake Country 5" backing plate with Lake Country Flat 5.5" pads. The backing plate is marked so I can see rotation.

When I rinsed the first pad out the dip in the foam was still present and could be felt on the back as well. The second pad once rinsed out looks and feels normal. As soon as I saw it start on the 2nd pad I quit, so at least I didn't damage both of them.
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Interesting, what do you mean by "rinsed?" Are you stating that you are rinsing the pad then going back to using it? You may be saturating the pad.

Toolhead said:
i use a pad brush to brush off the pad after each panel...the pad brush is really just a hard nylon brush..you can buy a nylon brush anywhere
..can probably use a tooth brush if thats whats in the house.

i see a shower of product/paint dust come off the pad...

just a gentle brushing across the face of the pad..no pressure into the pad
Click to expand...

Cleaning on the fly is a great method, which LC pads are you using? Orange, Yellow, etc.. (Sorry I'm color blind). I have a feeling your pad is a.) saturated with products and or liquids, and b.) your not using enough pads c.) generating too much heat on the few pads you have, causing the pad to concave or bulge.

In there lies your problem somewhere... Try getting more pads, and not saturating with liquids or product. Lastly, if I were you, go back and read the posts from dlc95, he seems to be right on the money.

Hope this helps.
 
Oats said:
Ok, too much heat.

The funny thing is I tried this new technique to reduce heat. Previously I was using a lot more pressure and the machine was getting pretty warm as well as the paint.
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How many pads are you using to "compound" the car?


And for what it's worth, the what the picture shows about the pad is too much heat.


:)
 
LSNAutoDetailing said:
Interesting, what do you mean by "rinsed?" Are you stating that you are rinsing the pad then going back to using it? You may be saturating the pad.



Cleaning on the fly is a great method, which LC pads are you using? Orange, Yellow, etc.. (Sorry I'm color blind). I have a feeling your pad is a.) saturated with products and or liquids, and b.) your not using enough pads c.) generating too much heat on the few pads you have, causing the pad to concave or bulge.

In there lies your problem somewhere... Try getting more pads, and not saturating with liquids or product. Lastly, if I were you, go back and read the posts from dlc95, he seems to be right on the money.

Hope this helps.
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I meant when I was done for the day. I rinse the pads in the sink with warm water to clean all the product out before letting them dry.
I am using orange pads, I do have a brush that I use between sections along with a towel.

Mike Phillips said:
How many pads are you using to "compound" the car?


And for what it's worth, the what the picture shows about the pad is too much heat.


:)
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I am only doing a few panels at a time, or 1 large one like the hood/roof and generally have been using 2 pads. Then doing another panel or two another day with the same pads but they have been cleaned with water and dried. I would say probably around 15 fresh pads by the time I finish at the rate I have been using them. The car is an RX-8 which is fairly small.

Mike Phillips said:
Watch this video, it will show you exactly how to use the HF polisher and

  • What a section pass is.
  • How to do a section pass.
  • How many section passes to do.





:)
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I've watched the video a few times. During the compound step in that video more product was being used than I was using, so I started using more, and then 8 section passes were done without reloading the pad so I tried that. Except I was doing 8 section passes, reloading the pad, then doing 8 more.

Maybe I am expecting too much, or my paint just need more aggressive product. In the video it was mostly just removing swirl marks. After 8 passes my swirl marks are gone. Light scratches that don't catch my nail are still present, medium scratches that do catch my nail look pretty much the same, and the reflection is a little clearer. After I do another 8 the light scratches are mostly gone, the medium scratches are still there but look slightly better, and the reflection is much clearer. For the reflection I'm looking at my ceiling lights, which are just twirly CFL bulbs on the ceiling. Before I start it looks like a glowing blob, after 8 passes it looks like a smaller blob, after 8 more you can see the coiling of the CFL bulb.
 
Another thing to consider: is the compression washer on the backing plate? If not the backing plate can rub the machine and create excessive heat.
 
I thought of that since I removed the backing plate before but it is still there.

I did a few panels today, rear fender, side skirt, and door pillars. Used less product and went back to do 4 passes per section, then wiping the surface and repeating. I still end up doing 16 passes total but there is less heat and less product on the pad so I think everything is going well.
 
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