What exactly is a compound compared to a diminishing abrasive?

[ltoman]

Ok, I know what both are - and I know how the diminishing abrasives, like ssr 1, 2, and xmt 1, 2, work,- but how is that different from what you call a compound, like Menz Power Gloss? I do not get what that is, other than stronger.
All input appreciated!

 

[Thejoyofdriving]

"The XMT line does not use diminishing abrasives." thats what i was told by someone at AG. I always thought of a compound as a crazy strong polish.

 

[ltoman]

"The XMT line does not use diminishing abrasives." thats what i was told by someone at AG. I always thought of a compound as a crazy strong polish.

then what are the xmt products? although that is not really what I wanted to know, but now I am curious.

 

[Al-53]

Lauren....they all have a diminishing abrasive....just some use bigger abrasives or more abrasives....some compounds if you feel them its like fine sand....gritty....thats for some serious cutting....the bigger abrasives take longer to diminish so they cut longer....but you will have a hazy finish most times and need a finer polish to bring back the gloss

AL

 

[Thejoyofdriving]

Lauren....they all have a diminishing abrasive...
AL

Thats not what the guy at AG said, I asked him why, and he said"because with a diminishing abrasive you have to know how long to work it in, there for its harder to use, the XMT line is all about ease of use, so with a XMT polish you dont have to worry about braking down the polish, and you dont have to worry about having a hazy finish due to not working in the abrasive enough." thats what he said.

 

[Al-53]

Thats not what the guy at AG said, I asked him why, and he said"because with a diminishing abrasive you have to know how long to work it in, there for its harder to use, the XMT line is all about ease of use, so with a XMT polish you dont have to worry about braking down the polish, and you dont have to worry about having a hazy finish due to not working in the abrasive enough." thats what he said.

Sorry Joy...Read..from the Pinnacle site on XMT2

The number and size of these proprietary abrasives enable them to effectively erase surface defects without marring the paint. The abrasives diminish as you polish so the swirl remover in effect becomes a finishing polish. Pinnacle XMT Fine Swirl Remover leaves the paint silky smooth in one step!


AL

 

[Thejoyofdriving]

Sorry Joy...Read..from the Pinnacle site on XMT2

The number and size of these proprietary abrasives enable them to effectively erase surface defects without marring the paint. The abrasives diminish as you polish so the swirl remover in effect becomes a finishing polish. Pinnacle XMT Fine Swirl Remover leaves the paint silky smooth in one step!


AL

Sorry..why? I looked on the site and i can see that it talks about diminishing abrasives in the XMT polishes. i didnt misinterpret what the guy at AG said about the XMT polishes, thats what he told me, i figured since he works at AG he spoke the truth, guess he made a mistake. Oh well. glad that got cleared up.

 

[Al-53]

Sorry..why? I looked on the site and i can see that it talks about diminishing abrasives in the XMT polishes. i didnt misinterpret what the guy at AG said about the XMT polishes, thats what he told me, i figured since he works at AG he spoke the truth, guess he made a mistake. Oh well. glad that got cleared up.

don't feel bad..I had a rep of one company tell me one thing..and another tell me the complete opposite...on more than one occasion...

AL

 

[ltoman]

Thank you, AL, for the specifics there!

 

[Thejoyofdriving]

don't feel bad..I had a rep of one company tell me one thing..and another tell me the complete opposite...on more than one occasion...

AL

No hard feelings here, just glad that got cleared up:cheers:

 

[bambo2888]

Al is dead on.... the nice thing, actually, about diminishing abrasives is that you can work them out into finishing polishes, all of them.

with the correct pattern and method, i made xmt4 and an orange pad finist out like xmt1 with a white on a 05 645ci that someone took TW Rubbing Compound to. the paint looked factory fresh and I couldnt have done any better with Pinancle's Adv. Finishing polish or anything.

its all in the technique. if you know what you are doing, you can make ANY product work out great

 

[ltoman]

Al is dead on.... the nice thing, actually, about diminishing abrasives is that you can work them out into finishing polishes, all of them.

with the correct pattern and method, i made xmt4 and an orange pad finist out like xmt1 with a white on a 05 645ci that someone took TW Rubbing Compound to. the paint looked factory fresh and I couldnt have done any better with Pinancle's Adv. Finishing polish or anything.

its all in the technique. if you know what you are doing, you can make ANY product work out great

Got some tips there, Bambo2888?Feed back please

 

[TOGWT]

Ok, I know what both are - and I know how the diminishing abrasives, like ssr 1, 2, and xmt 1, 2, work,- but how is that different from what you call a compound, like Menz Power Gloss? I do not get what that is, other than stronger.
All input appreciated!

Compounds
A paste is just a thicker form of liquid, i.e. using a different consistency, not necessarily even more or less solvents. Some products use an emulsion to keep more liquid without adding solvents. Whether liquid or a paste, an apt description of a compound is ‘liquid sandpaper’; they are formulated from a few basic components: water, oil, and solvent, diminishing abrasives, surfactants, colouring and fragrance. Placing a small amount between your finger tips will no longer give an indication of compounds abrasiveness; this is due to the particles being emulsified in oil and not released until heated by friction
Water -the more water there is in a compound, the softer it will be. That is the difference between a liquid and a paste compound. Neither is better than the other in terms of performance. It really comes down to what the detailer prefers.
Solvents- there are basically three solvents that can be used: mineral spirits; kerosene; and naphtha. Mineral spirits is usually a quick-drying solvent that will make the compound dry quickly, speeding up the job. However, it will also increase the possibility of burning the paint if used incorrectly. Kerosene, on the other hand, is a slower-drying solvent that reduces the tendency to burn paint. It will, however, increase the work time with the compound.
Oils- often in an oil/water emulsion;the most common oil used in compounds are mineral oil. The purpose of oils is to provide lubrication, the amount used will determine the working time of the compound.
Abrasives- these are the most important ingredients used in compounds because the abrasives determine the cutting ability of the product. Abrasives come in many grit sizes, ranging from 800 to a micro-fine 3000grit. Abrasives can be soft or hard; the most common abrasive used is silica however; many formulators are also using aluminium oxide. Most good compounds are a combination of both silica and aluminium oxide.
Surfactants- defined as a material that can greatly reduce the surface tension of liquids
Colouring- is used strictly for customer appeal, traditionally compounds are tan or olive in colour, so most manufacturers colour their compounds accordingly.
Fragrance- is only for customer appeal.

Diminishing Abrasives:
The abrasion or cutting ability of a polish on a 0-10 scale; least abrasive to most, a rating of 0 would constitute a functionally nonabrasive material (i.e. diatomaceous earth or Kaolin) a 10 rating would be 800 grit abrasive.

The most common abrasive used is silica however; many formulators are also using aluminium oxide. Most good compounds and polishes contain diminishing abrasives and are a combination of both silica and aluminium oxide. Think of them as liquid sandpaper, they are formulated with a lubricant (polymer or solvents in a water-emulsion) and an abrasive size of approx. 0.3 –0.4 micron, (diminishing abrasives) are minerals that diminishes with friction heat, buffered or cushioned in a lubricating oil film, usually in a semi-liquid paste.

Most good compounds are a combination of both silica and aluminium oxide. Some very abrasive compound polishes don’t feel abrasive to the touch because the particles are formulated in a water-in-oil emulsion and are not released without friction-heat.

 

[bambo2888]

Got some tips there, Bambo2888?Feed back please

in a nut shell, its a matter of working the product in on speed 5 for a DA ad bumping up to speed 6 with a faster movement. this rounds the edges and smoothes everything out.

 

[ltoman]

in a nut shell, its a matter of working the product in on speed 5 for a DA ad bumping up to speed 6 with a faster movement. this rounds the edges and smoothes everything out.

ok, cool - i was working on 5 - now i will finish trying 6 more quickly. thank you!

 

[Surfer]

ok, cool - i was working on 5 - now i will finish trying 6 more quickly. thank you!

Only use speed 6 with the Edge pads, backing plate type pads don't like the speed and heat of speed 6.

Yeh its nice not even bothering witha polish, and then saying, dame have to get something stronger. I use Optimum Compound more then anything b/c of its cutting ability and b/c it finishes down like a nice polish.

 

[D]

Yes, OP CO finishes very nicely. After my next box arrives from AG Ill have the entire line.

 

[budman3]

Only use speed 6 with the Edge pads, backing plate type pads don't like the speed and heat of speed 6.

HUH... I recall Aaron saying that you shouldn't use speed 6 with the Edge pads. I rarely turn my PC or UDM off of speed 6 with BPs and have not had a single issue.

As for the original topic, TOGWT has all of the information there... do you have a database of all of this info that you typed up or something?

Lauren think of a non-diminishing polish as a quality sandpaper. You start off at 400 grit and at the end you'll still be sanding at 400 grit. It stays the same no matter how long you use it.

Now if you had a diminishing abrasive sand paper (or polish) you'd start off at 400 grit but then the abrasives will get smaller to 500, then 600, 700, and at one point the polish is completely broken down and ready to be removed. Does that help a little?

 

[TOGWT]

As for the original topic, TOGWT has all of the information there... do you have a database of all of this info that you typed up or something?
Yes a 225 page 'database'

Automotive Detailing Inside & Out, A Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist – by Jon Miller aka TOGWT™

© 2004 – 2007 all rights reserved - Jon Miller aka TOGWT™​

 

[TOGWT]

ok, cool - i was working on 5 - now i will finish trying 6 more quickly. thank you!

Diminishing abrasives require heat to enable them to 'breakdown', they are micro minerals that progressively reduce in size with the application of friction heat, they are buffered or cushioned in a lubricating water-based oil film emulsion, usually in a semi-liquid paste. Menzerna have been producing this type of abrasive for use by OEM’s and has the most experience with this technology. They mill there own abrasives to ensure quality control within a size range of approx. 0.3 –0.4 micron.

They have also formulated polishes for use with Mercedes-Benz CeramiClear paint, Power Gloss (POS 34A) cut 5.0 gloss -1.5, Super Intensive Polish (PO83Q) cut 3.5 – gloss 3.0 Final Polish (PO85U) cut 3.0 gloss 4.0 and Nano Polish (105FF) cut 2.5 - gloss 5.0 These polishes can also be used for conventional paint finishes.