What is the BEST Finishing/Jeweling polish to use AFTER Meguiars 205 with a Flex or PC for that extra gloss?

Sorry but I just have to clear something up… "Jeweling " ...allow me to correct you… What you really want to do is something called "burnishing" the paint. This can be done by revving up your Polisher somewhere around 2000 2300 RPM and slowly staying in straight line down the panel (light press.)and you really can cook up some serious gloss. Oh btw RPM's!��
 
I do however recommend that you take great caution, in fact if you haven't seen someone do it first hand in front of you?? I wouldn't do this. I happen to have an extensive background in woodworking and surface removal...not to mention I've deliberately ruined a couple of scrap yard bumpers just to see where the "oh s***" burn thru threshold lies...
 
For a show car finish, jewling with a rotary is a must. Ive jewled with a DA and a rotary and the finish with the rotary was far more outstanding. With the da it looks nice, but not like the rotary.

+1000 Exackly this .. with menzerna 85rd or 4500(new name )
 
I understand the odds are against not using a rotary. But is there any advice someone can give using SF4500 with Porter Cable 7424xp
 
SF4500. The best machine for it is a rotary and GOLD JEWELING pad. However it takes a lot of practice to get this down. Otherwise use a black pad and a DA.
 
I didn't read the whole thread, so I take it that the general consensus is that you MUST use a rotary to "jewel" (or as I read above on this page, "burnish") the paint to get a stellar result?

I am going to say with confidence, that's completely false.

The only thing stopping you from getting real-world perfect (not microscopic, but rather typical human eyeball skills, and the best of lighting) is technique.

In fact, I'd be so BOLD as to say that by making a few adjustments to speed, pressure, and quantity of product... M205 can deliver exactly what you're looking for, using a proper foam pad and backing plate with your 7424. Im the MAN
 
I didn't read the whole thread, so I take it that the general consensus is that you MUST use a rotary to "jewel" (or as I read above on this page, "burnish") the paint to get a stellar result?

I am going to say with confidence, that's completely false.

The only thing stopping you from getting real-world perfect (not microscopic, but rather typical human eyeball skills, and the best of lighting) is technique.

In fact, I'd be so BOLD as to say that by making a few adjustments to speed, pressure, and quantity of product... M205 can deliver exactly what you're looking for, using a proper foam pad and backing plate with your 7424. Im the MAN
Well then forget what I've said because this dude knows more than me. KB changed the way I correct paint.
 
Well then forget what I've said because this dude knows more than me. KB changed the way I correct paint.

That's kind and funny, all in one!

I wouldn't recommend that any single post is ignored, but this is a topic that I deal with almost every day via phone or text or e-mail. When a guy is having a tough time finishing down a paint job, the go-to polish is always M205 for me. This is partly because I know it so well, also because its abrasive grains are very refined, and the liquid portion of the "polish" is fantastic.

By adjusting the quantity being used (more or less quantity), most of the finishing issues are resolved.

Common occurrences responsible for subpar results when final polishing:

1. Long-cycling the product.
Buffing for too long a period of time

2. Use of too much product.
A guy will typically polish until the M205 "disappears" or "breaks down", which causes the polish to continually remove paint, and the paint grindings (the residue) causes new scouring. An excess amount of polish can also be tougher to remove from the pad, so contaminated polish continues to scour even after the pad has been cleaned "on the fly".

3. Use of a pad that is not ideal for your polishing style, or your polishing machine.
Pads can squish, twist, and distort during use, to the point that it cannot achieve a consistent result from one second to the next.

4. Use of a backing plate that is grossly mismatched to the diameter of the buffing pad. This is not usually a problem if the pad being used features a flared-edge design. Vast differences in pad and plate diameters becomes especially noticeable with pads featuring square-cut edges, and if high machine speeds are used.

5. Use of a super-soft, super-pliable buffing pad.
Oftentimes, a super-soft finishing pad does not provide as nice a finish as a polishing or cutting pad. Foam design, wall thickness between each pore, pad thickness, etc., all have a monstrous effect on how well a pad can refine a paint surface.

6. Lifting up or lightening pressure on the last couple of passes.
Why is this always considered a must-do? When you wet-sand a paint surface, are you taught to lift up or lighten your sanding pressure right as you finish? I'd say that in many cases (and in super-critical testing), lightening user-applied pressure has a tendency to scour the surface. There are specific reasons for this.

7. Using a variety of machine speeds, or too much speed (for no reason other than because it was recommended to do so).
Without knowing why you are doing something, you cannot possibly know whether or not procedural changes are beneficial or detrimental to the polishing result. This is partly because super-fine scour marks are easily masked during polishing, and are not seen until the panel is wiped clean (or a wipe-down spray is applied and wiped).

8. Overuse of wipe-down sprays.
Checking your work is fine, but at some point, the mist & wipe surface cleaners (detergents, alcohols, petro-solvents) can temporarily alter the mechanical characteristics of the paint (it is an expandable/contractable structure after all, just like all things in the world, at least from what I know). If you must do multiple test applications in hopes of dialing in the ideal product or procedure, consider using a hot-water saturated microfiber towel to wipe the surface clean, then a moistened and wrung microfiber towel to dry. Or, test-polish using different areas of the vehicle to avoid affecting the paint via overuse of stripping agents.

This list continues on.

In my experience, pad priming is a big deal when it comes to creating that "perfect finish". Regardless the quantity of polish being used (12 drops of M205 mixed into a quart of water, or M101 compound slathered about and massaged into the pad), it NEVER hurts to have a consistent layer of polish across the pad face.
 
That's kind and funny, all in one!

I wouldn't recommend that any single post is ignored, but this is a topic that I deal with almost every day via phone or text or e-mail. When a guy is having a tough time finishing down a paint job, the go-to polish is always M205 for me. This is partly because I know it so well, also because its abrasive grains are very refined, and the liquid portion of the "polish" is fantastic.

By adjusting the quantity being used (more or less quantity), most of the finishing issues are resolved.

Common occurrences responsible for subpar results when final polishing:

1. Long-cycling the product.
Buffing for too long a period of time

2. Use of too much product.
A guy will typically polish until the M205 "disappears" or "breaks down", which causes the polish to continually remove paint, and the paint grindings (the residue) causes new scouring. An excess amount of polish can also be tougher to remove from the pad, so contaminated polish continues to scour even after the pad has been cleaned "on the fly".

3. Use of a pad that is not ideal for your polishing style, or your polishing machine.
Pads can squish, twist, and distort during use, to the point that it cannot achieve a consistent result from one second to the next.

4. Use of a backing plate that is grossly mismatched to the diameter of the buffing pad. This is not usually a problem if the pad being used features a flared-edge design. Vast differences in pad and plate diameters becomes especially noticeable with pads featuring square-cut edges, and if high machine speeds are used.

5. Use of a super-soft, super-pliable buffing pad.
Oftentimes, a super-soft finishing pad does not provide as nice a finish as a polishing or cutting pad. Foam design, wall thickness between each pore, pad thickness, etc., all have a monstrous effect on how well a pad can refine a paint surface.

6. Lifting up or lightening pressure on the last couple of passes.
Why is this always considered a must-do? When you wet-sand a paint surface, are you taught to lift up or lighten your sanding pressure right as you finish? I'd say that in many cases (and in super-critical testing), lightening user-applied pressure has a tendency to scour the surface. There are specific reasons for this.

7. Using a variety of machine speeds, or too much speed (for no reason other than because it was recommended to do so).
Without knowing why you are doing something, you cannot possibly know whether or not procedural changes are beneficial or detrimental to the polishing result. This is partly because super-fine scour marks are easily masked during polishing, and are not seen until the panel is wiped clean (or a wipe-down spray is applied and wiped).

8. Overuse of wipe-down sprays.
Checking your work is fine, but at some point, the mist & wipe surface cleaners (detergents, alcohols, petro-solvents) can temporarily alter the mechanical characteristics of the paint (it is an expandable/contractable structure after all, just like all things in the world, at least from what I know). If you must do multiple test applications in hopes of dialing in the ideal product or procedure, consider using a hot-water saturated microfiber towel to wipe the surface clean, then a moistened and wrung microfiber towel to dry. Or, test-polish using different areas of the vehicle to avoid affecting the paint via overuse of stripping agents.

This list continues on.

In my experience, pad priming is a big deal when it comes to creating that "perfect finish". Regardless the quantity of polish being used (12 drops of M205 mixed into a quart of water, or M101 compound slathered about and massaged into the pad), it NEVER hurts to have a consistent layer of polish across the pad face.
Is there ever a time you do recommend lighter pressure on the last 2 passes?

Do you consider the 6 setting too high of a speed on the porter cable when polishing?
 
Boy, quite a lot of different, confusing techniques, and products, pads, tools, etc.

But what I mostly believe, is that much of this can be confusing, and really throw off a "fresh fish" here, thinking they can somehow turn a pig's ear substandard low quality cookie cutter assembly line robotic applied paint into a $15K custom applied paint job.

I say no can do. I'm sure one can smooth a paint till the cows come home, buff till there's virtually no clear coat left on top, and then where are you at? You're probably left with a paint finish which you just placed an additional ten year's worth of wear and tear on.

I'm hearing Joe Pesci from Goodfellas in the background, saying, Whatsamatter, you worry too Much"!

I've been to countless auto shows, custom rods, antiques, vette fests mccormick place, smaller shows all over America, and me, I still say the best paint finishes I've ever seen in my life have been Laquer.

But, due to our wonderful EPA, you want such, it's gonna be a trip across the southern border. I've never ever heard of 12-15 coats of paint lovingly applied with clear coats. But I know they can come mighty close, dependent upon who's in the booth, and their experience. They've gotten better in factories, but one might be comparing apples and oranges
 
With "Jeweling" the paint you want to slow your speed down to around speed 4 with the m205.
 
paul dalton was primarily a rotary user and has now been using the rupes bigfoot system (said it changed the way he details without or with less stress) for many years now and I believe he primarily uses the lhr15es though he uses all the rupes offerings (polishes/compounds/pads, polishers, etc). iirc, he stated that the rupes can equal or leave a better finish than the rotary in his testing/usage and he even had a gloss meter to prove it. his expectations are very high and if it didn't do exactly what he expected of it, i'm sure he would go back to the rotary without blinking an eye. look at the 3:50 mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KaUU0ATb34
 
Boy, when this guy posts, they will listen! Good to hear your thoughts Kevin, our hero
 
Is there ever a time you do recommend lighter pressure on the last 2 passes?

None that come to mind.

Do you consider the 6 setting too high of a speed on the porter cable when polishing?

The only reason I could reasonably envision needing that much orbital speed would be if I was attempting to create more random rotation of the backing plate.

Assuming that the backing plate and buffing pad were both optimized to assist in transferring the machine's motion to the pad face (thin or rigid pad, not too large or small a pad, backing plate matched closely in diameter to a square-edged pad, stuff like that), I would only see a need for maximum plate rotation if I was attempting to use the edge of the pad as I might use the edge of a pad that was mounted to a rotary. That is, for the purpose of leveling sanding ridges or other non-level surface defects.

The question is... why do you typically dial in more motor speed in the first place? Is it so that you can polish a given spot on the paint 10 times more per second (a 600 OPM increase)? No, for that, you would simply use slower arm speed, or polish the area using added passes.

For the most part, we tend to increase motor speed to assist the machine in creating more backing plate rotation. If you must rely solely upon increasing motor speed to bump up backing plate rotation, perhaps some changes to your polishing procedure are in order. If that doesn't fix things... changing your choice of pad, or backing plate (or the combination) may also be needed.
 
Thanks Kevin, you DA man!!!

it's always a pleasure and informative to hear and listen what KB says about machine polishing. thanks kevin for chiming in, it's greatly appreciated... :props:
 
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