Wheels off detail?

statusdetailing

statusdetailing

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Thinking about offering a wheels off detail...

I'm mechanically inclined and have lots of tools but what is the absolute safest way to do this? I will also need to upgrade to a good, low profile jack and stands. Any suggestions? Im a fixed location.

Any good resources for torque specifications or special procedures?

Prices? Im thinking around $250 just to detail wheels and wheel wells, excluding exterior cost.

Could help me get a couple $400-$500 days per month if included with an exterior detail...would be nice.
 
If you have high end cars to work on my guess is it's a nice upsell. My guess is it would have to be a show car.

Personally I'd avoid it and make the extra money with an additional paint correction or up-sells.

My concerns would be liability. If a wheel come off the lawsuit would be killer. I saw this result from a Mercedes dealer that did not tighten the lugs on one wheel and it came off the car causing an injury accident. Bottom line is the settlement was huge.

Lesser concerns are wrong torque and you can damage break parts. Then there's your safety. Jacking a car increases risk.
 
Oh man, now you're talking me out of it. Maybe it's not worth the risk. I had a buddy that had his tires rotated a few months ago. He noticed something felt weird and by the time he got home, his right front wheel had almost completely fallen off. How could somebody forget to tighten all the lugnuts?!!
 
I just use wheel woollies cheaper and no risk of law suit if something goes wrong.
 
Just typed about this a day or so ago... so this is a copy and paste from this thread,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...how-keep-iron-remover-off-brake-calipers.html



Post #2

Besides all the issues you listed with removing the wheels there's also the issues of correctly re-torquing the lug nuts correctly and without making a mistake and causing wheel or rotor damage.



Post #3

Dedicated Wheel & Wheel Well Package

Here's an approach that might work better but you'll have to become the expert and torquing wheels and that will mean getting a high quality torque wrench and then get the torque specs for each car/wheel you detail.

The key to success with this will be to offer this specialized procedure as an upsell and charge by the hour. You'll have to include wheel wheel cleaning and detailing to make it a complete package.

This will separate your customers from the people wanting something for free and people that REALLY want their wheels, brake rotors, and wheel wells cleaned and detailed. Like the people that own exotics, show cars, tuners, etc.


Create a dedicated package and upsell. This way by having the package to offer you customers you give them the opportunity to say yes or turn the service down. When they turn the service down and then ask,

Well what can you do?

That's when you "educate" them on what it takes to do the job the "best" way and the "safe" way. Once you do this any intelligent person will understand the time and labor behind this type of process.

Then tell them without going this complicated, here's what I can do...

  • Blank
  • Blank
  • Blank
All of the above is just normal, fast, easy safe products and procedures and for the majority of people with "Daily Drivers" this will be what they really want to afford.


You'll also need a very high quality floor jack and saftey jack stands.



:D
 
Wheels also have to be retorqued after 100 miles, you would have to deal eith the hassle of that.

I think its not worth the risk with the sue happy people out there.
 
I've always been told the re-torque is for brand new alloys installed, that's it. After every rotation I have never ever had to return to Discount Tire for a re-torque.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
Durallymax said:
Wheels also have to be retorqued after 100 miles, you would have to deal eith the hassle of that.

I think its not worth the risk with the sue happy people out there.
Click to expand...

To start off I understand how so many people lacking real mechanical skill would be concerned. And yes in high flow facilities where they are sometimes pushing over 100 repairs they forget ro properly torque the wheels. but in your case you are only going to do this every once in a while. lawyers and bureaucrats always will say don't I'd they can its what they are preprogrammed to say but entrepreneurs the real movers and shakers would say do it. Because if we never did anything because we were unwilling to take risk we would not be in business.
Just make dam good and sure u torque the wheels.
Btw torque specs for wheels are easy to come by, and re torquing procedures are very rare for wheels.
 
statusdetailing said:
Oh man, now you're talking me out of it. Maybe it's not worth the risk. I had a buddy that had his tires rotated a few months ago. He noticed something felt weird and by the time he got home, his right front wheel had almost completely fallen off. How could somebody forget to tighten all the lugnuts?!!
Click to expand...

I don't know what process the dealership used but I guess the tech hand tightened got distracted and never torqued the lug nuts on the wheel that came off. I know the settlement helped my friend with early retirement. Not something you want to deal with. BTW I've never had a shop re-torque my wheels after a rotation, most just crank it with an impact wrench not a torque wrench!

Personally I'd be more concerned with demand for this service. It would need to be priced $150-200+ to be profitable IMO. Again I can really only see this as a show car service. No doubt somebody with a DD will order it though.
 
Wow! A lot of varying opinions out there.

I have all the tools to do a proper cleaning without removing the wheels: Iron x, daytona brush, tire brush, wheel well brush, etc. I use a separate bucket of water for wheels. I do an excellent job.

That said. Some cars are just insanely difficult or impossible to clean back there.

I'm going to have to put some serious thought into this. I may invest in upgrading my jack and stands.

This isn't something foreign to me, as I've done some wheels off details in the past on show cars. If I'm going to officially start offering it, though. I need to do it right.

I was already thinking about the possibility of a scissor lift next year, regardless of the wheels off thing. Perhaps that would make it easier?
 
statusdetailing said:
Wow! A lot of varying opinions out there.

I have all the tools to do a proper cleaning without removing the wheels: Iron x, daytona brush, tire brush, wheel well brush, etc. I use a separate bucket of water for wheels. I do an excellent job.

That said. Some cars are just insanely difficult or impossible to clean back there.

I'm going to have to put some serious thought into this. I may invest in upgrading my jack and stands.

This isn't something foreign to me, as I've done some wheels off details in the past on show cars. If I'm going to officially start offering it, though. I need to do it right.

I was already thinking about the possibility of a scissor lift next year, regardless of the wheels off thing. Perhaps that would make it easier?
Click to expand...

A lift would absolutely make it easier for you to remove and replace the wheels in a more timely fashion with less risk. As far a re-torquing the wheels I think that if you went around the vehicle with the customer present to show them that all the lug nuts are properly torqued it would eliminate any potential problem. I can't see the whole process taking more than a few minutes and once the inspection is completed have the vehicle owner sign off on a special wheels off detail release form before leaving your shop.

One of my family members had the front wheel fall off their vehicle at 30+mph and we had to pay for it not the shop. Unless the wheel falls off that day or a few miles away from the shop good luck suing anyone. The wheel fell off a few days later after a hundred or so miles of driving. We don't know if it was because the lugs were under or over torqued because there was so much damage to the lugs.

After that incident I always re-torque my lug nuts after driving around the block and then again after a hundred or so miles. The most the lug nuts have ever loosened up is a few foot pounds though. A majority of shops just don't care these days and can't even match the tire PSI when mounting tires. The last time I had tires mounted there was an 8psi variance and approximately a 20lb difference from the highest and lowest torqued lug nut.
 
aircrewjake said:
To start off I understand how so many people lacking real mechanical skill would be concerned. And yes in high flow facilities where they are sometimes pushing over 100 repairs they forget ro properly torque the wheels. but in your case you are only going to do this every once in a while. lawyers and bureaucrats always will say don't I'd they can its what they are preprogrammed to say but entrepreneurs the real movers and shakers would say do it. Because if we never did anything because we were unwilling to take risk we would not be in business.
Just make dam good and sure u torque the wheels.
Btw torque specs for wheels are easy to come by, and re torquing procedures are very rare for wheels.
Click to expand...

I'm a mechanic by day and TIA certified tire tech. the amount of things people overlook with wheels is more than most people think.

Retorques are common. It only takes one wheel to ruin everything, I would say less than 10% of the nuts move on the first retorque but enough do.


To the other poster worried about impact tight, if they use the proper torqur stick there is less chance for issues. But always torque with a torque wrench after the stick.
 
statusdetailing said:
Wow! A lot of varying opinions out there.

I have all the tools to do a proper cleaning without removing the wheels: Iron x, daytona brush, tire brush, wheel well brush, etc. I use a separate bucket of water for wheels. I do an excellent job.

That said. Some cars are just insanely difficult or impossible to clean back there.

I'm going to have to put some serious thought into this. I may invest in upgrading my jack and stands.

This isn't something foreign to me, as I've done some wheels off details in the past on show cars. If I'm going to officially start offering it, though. I need to do it right.

I was already thinking about the possibility of a scissor lift next year, regardless of the wheels off thing. Perhaps that would make it easier?
Click to expand...
Conversely:

Performing: "Wheels-on Detailing"
Many of today's vehicle braking systems have very sensitive parts.
Imagine the liability costs of screwing-up a ceramic rotor.

For example:
1.) Ceramic Rotors will absorb any material/product that comes in contact with them.
Use of anything other than soap and water will void their warranty.

2.) Ceramic rotors are hard and the edges will chip if they are struck with the wheel, when the wheel is removed and installed.
If the edges of the rotor are chipped, the rotor must be replaced!!

Take the brake pad wear-indicators/sensors into consideration:
-Most OEM's are going more and more towards using electric/electronic pad wear sensors.
[Ever see the words "Replace Brake Pads" appear in the Driver Information Center (DIC) when they are worn enough to require replacement.]

-Imagine your detailing products/tools causing "false readings"!
Customers would be p!$$ed to find out they were perfectly fine, after they had spent their
time and efforts for an unnecessary pad-replacement-service.

Worse if the sensors were faulty from detailing chemicals/tools...
And had to be replaced.

Even more worse if the vehicles' braking system doesn't work properly when leaving your shop!! :eek:

-Just a few scenarios I thought you may find to be of some interest.

And by all means...Get yourself a lift, if your budget allows.

:)

Bob
 
Just another POV.

How would you remove them if you did. What tools would you use to support the wheel if it uses lug bolts.

2 out my 3 cars have huge calipers/rotors with just a hair between the face if not the barell. You need to be really slow and careful taking them off or putting them on. One slip off the hub bore, you're guaranteed to either touch the rotor or possible - eeeks - scratch/chip the caliper. I'm speaking from experience as my mechanic had a new worker working on my car. He was sloppy on detail and it ended up costing my mechanic to send both calipers out to get re-powdercoated.

YMMV.
 
A scissor lift will be very helpful. If you will be mainly performing this service on show cars you would need to get the lug nut sockets with the plastic sleeves over them, they will protect the wheel when taking off the lug nuts. Especially on those wheels with tight clearances. Then you may need thin wall sockets on some wheels, but no always. You would definitely need to invest in a quality torque wrench and maybe even an air compressor and impact wrench for those lug nuts that you can't get off with a breaker bar.
 
I don't think a scissor life is *warranted* for a wheel only detail. It's nice to have but

Good Jack
JACKSTAND
Thin Wall Sockets
Decent Cordless Hi Torque Impact (IR, Bosch or Milwaukee)
Wheel Hangers - get one in each size

Not worth it IMO...Between taking them off, doing your thing, cleaning the Hub Bore and then applying a lil anti-seize, installing the wheel and then torquing it back to spec X 4 wheels at what rate .....is it really worth it. I suppose if the pay is there, then yes..
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Just typed about this a day or so ago... so this is a copy and paste from this thread,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...how-keep-iron-remover-off-brake-calipers.html



Post #2

Besides all the issues you listed with removing the wheels there's also the issues of correctly re-torquing the lug nuts correctly and without making a mistake and causing wheel or rotor damage.



Post #3

Dedicated Wheel & Wheel Well Package

Here's an approach that might work better but you'll have to become the expert and torquing wheels and that will mean getting a high quality torque wrench and then get the torque specs for each car/wheel you detail.

The key to success with this will be to offer this specialized procedure as an upsell and charge by the hour. You'll have to include wheel wheel cleaning and detailing to make it a complete package.

This will separate your customers from the people wanting something for free and people that REALLY want their wheels, brake rotors, and wheel wells cleaned and detailed. Like the people that own exotics, show cars, tuners, etc.


Create a dedicated package and upsell. This way by having the package to offer you customers you give them the opportunity to say yes or turn the service down. When they turn the service down and then ask,

Well what can you do?

That's when you "educate" them on what it takes to do the job the "best" way and the "safe" way. Once you do this any intelligent person will understand the time and labor behind this type of process.

Then tell them without going this complicated, here's what I can do...

  • Blank
  • Blank
  • Blank
All of the above is just normal, fast, easy safe products and procedures and for the majority of people with "Daily Drivers" this will be what they really want to afford.


You'll also need a very high quality floor jack and saftey jack stands.



:D
Click to expand...

My wife and I are also talking about doing wheels off detailing for customers (and us) going to car shows, show and shines etc. My wife is a certified mechanic and we're planning on getting a scissor lift. After seeing this thread and Mikes comments we are going to do it for sure.
 
chefwong said:
I don't think a scissor life is *warranted* for a wheel only detail. It's nice to have but

Good Jack
JACKSTAND
Thin Wall Sockets
Decent Cordless Hi Torque Impact (IR, Bosch or Milwaukee)
Wheel Hangers - get one in each size

Not worth it IMO...Between taking them off, doing your thing, cleaning the Hub Bore and then applying a lil anti-seize, installing the wheel and then torquing it back to spec X 4 wheels at what rate .....is it really worth it. I suppose if the pay is there, then yes..
Click to expand...


Do not apply anti seize to the "face" of the wheel (flat area where rotor and wheel contact). Over application of anti sieze here can cause the wheel to loosen up since the antisieze forms a small gap between the wheel and rotor, over time it changes properties and eventually can lead to a loose wheel. There isn't any need for it there anyways.
 
I just did a wheels off detail on a Mustang with Foose wheels. Took me 4.5 hours with 2 coats of CQF on the front and barrels of each.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Not worth the risk imo. I have heard of numerous horror stories about wheels wobbling and customers coming back to blame someone.
 
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